WestLRT Construction Transgression thread

[Rathji]

Originally Posted by Ducay

Green text aside, Im not so sure about this. The whole point of the WLRT is to cut down commuting times. A few extra dollars for a couple of walkways wouldn't have been a big deal in the budget, nor a sticking point. Those extra ~8 seconds of red times on 17th and Bow at those intersections is going to add up; it wasn't a dollar based decision, but rather one of aesthetics and complaints by the comm. asscs.

Interesting point.

Would these extra 8 seconds mean that they would increase the green light times appropriately, giving the same amount of 'green light time to red light time ratio' or would it simply replace the 'green light time'?

I have always assumed that our traffic planners are not idiotic and understand that a certain percentage of traffic at an intersection at any given time comes from certain direction and that in general traffic lights would try and accommodate that flow.

Maybe I am assuming too much?

[mykalberta]

I always thought the point of public transit was to get people to use a more efficient mode of transportation and not cut down commute times (they might lower as a result).

[Ducay]

Originally Posted by Rathji

Interesting point.

Would these extra 8 seconds mean that they would increase the green light times appropriately, giving the same amount of 'green light time to red light time ratio' or would it simply replace the 'green light time'?

I have always assumed that our traffic planners are not idiotic and understand that a certain percentage of traffic at an intersection at any given time comes from certain direction and that in general traffic lights would try and accommodate that flow.

Any green time on the non-major routes, is going to be a factor of the traffic and the minimum amount of time needed for pedestrians or traffic to cross through the intersection.

I suppose if the green times were extended by 8 seconds, they could just increase the green time on Bow/26th, but then you're just prolonging the entire cycle time (which has advantages/disadvantages).

[GirlySports]

If downtown is any indication, people will just run across the street against a red to catch the train that they can see coming soon.

[FurnaceFace]

Originally Posted by frinkprof

No, it's the opposite. There was originally supposed to be a pedestrian overpass connecting to a station head and the platform. After the changes to the routing, the community complained about the visual impact such a configuration would have and the current design is the result (with the at-grade-only access to the platform. A similar situation with the community also saw a pedestrian overpass to and from the Park N' Ride removed from the design of Sirocco Station.

The original design of Shaganappi Point station was a 3 story building. There was a massive ramp walkway planned to get people up and into the station and then escalated down to track level. The committee at 26th was given the option of one walkway either the existing one at 24th street or the new one at 26th and they chose 24th. By widening that overpass to better accommodate bike traffic and by adding a berm on the south side of Bow, it is expected runners, walkers, skaters, and bikers will use this as the preferred route to the river valley not 26th street. I know I'll be using it instead of crossing at 26th once it's all done.

Too me this is a red herring for the current situation as any walkway would not be built or functional now as it would be integrated into the station. No matter what you'd still be left with the situation as is until the station was completed and once the station is complete the timing of the lights will change. Also most of the buses disappear so most of the foot traffic will too.

The problem right now is the configuration of the lights, and mainly the pedestrian crossing.

For evening traffic when people get off the bus and press the button the following occurs:
- West bound Bow Trail stops.
- East bound Bow gets a left turn signal to go northbound 26th street
- The pedestrians on the north side of Bow have a don't walk sign.
- East bound Bow stops and the pedestrians get their walk sign.
- Pedestrians eventually receive a countdown timer of 45 seconds.

As a result Bow trail is stopped for upwards of a minute which is entirely too long even given the expanded width a pedestrian must cross. I bet one could baby step across the road in less than 45 seconds let alone a minute. Decrease the time down and traffic will improve.

edit: Once 33rd street is opened up this will help improve traffic. Turning left from west bound Bow to south bound 26th backs things up because this is the only way into Shaganappi and Killarney right now. As for morning traffic besides speeding up the light at 26th I'm not sure what could be done. But that light needs to be fixed.

[frinkprof]

Things have slowed down on some areas of the West LRT due to the weather. There's work ongoing at several of the sites though.

I took a picture of the Sirocco Station area today, but can't post it right now due to technical difficulties. I'll try to post it later. It's from the same vantage point as the last couple I've posted.

[frinkprof]

Originally Posted by FurnaceFace

The original design of Shaganappi Point station was a 3 story building. There was a massive ramp walkway planned to get people up and into the station and then escalated down to track level. The committee at 26th was given the option of one walkway either the existing one at 24th street or the new one at 26th and they chose 24th. By widening that overpass to better accommodate bike traffic and by adding a berm on the south side of Bow, it is expected runners, walkers, skaters, and bikers will use this as the preferred route to the river valley not 26th street. I know I'll be using it instead of crossing at 26th once it's all done.

Too me this is a red herring for the current situation as any walkway would not be built or functional now as it would be integrated into the station. No matter what you'd still be left with the situation as is until the station was completed and once the station is complete the timing of the lights will change. Also most of the buses disappear so most of the foot traffic will too.

The problem right now is the configuration of the lights, and mainly the pedestrian crossing.

For evening traffic when people get off the bus and press the button the following occurs:
- West bound Bow Trail stops.
- East bound Bow gets a left turn signal to go northbound 26th street
- The pedestrians on the north side of Bow have a don't walk sign.
- East bound Bow stops and the pedestrians get their walk sign.
- Pedestrians eventually receive a countdown timer of 45 seconds.

As a result Bow trail is stopped for upwards of a minute which is entirely too long even given the expanded width a pedestrian must cross. I bet one could baby step across the road in less than 45 seconds let alone a minute. Decrease the time down and traffic will improve.

edit: Once 33rd street is opened up this will help improve traffic. Turning left from west bound Bow to south bound 26th backs things up because this is the only way into Shaganappi and Killarney right now. As for morning traffic besides speeding up the light at 26th I'm not sure what could be done. But that light needs to be fixed.

Thanks for the info, but could you clarify the bolded? I'm not sure exactly what you're referring to.

Aesthetics may not have been the reason so much as the city giving limited options regarding pedestrian crossings. For what it's worth, I think aesthetics and the community's desires came more into play in the case of Sirocco Station.

In any case, I still think the access to the Shaganappi Point Station leaves a lot to be desired from a few perspectives. These include the potential for delaying vehicle traffic on Bow Trail, pedestrian safety when crossing the road, pedestrian safety when crossing the tracks, and the potential for delaying train traffic.

[shermanator]

Moving the route to the median of Bow Trail not only repeats the errors the 36 St. NE saw, it will delay the finish of construction, as well as increase the price by 80% of a pedestrian bridge. Outrage!

Calgary's latest plan for the western leg of the LRT will cost an extra $20 million and take longer to build than the original proposal, select community groups learned Tuesday night.

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/calgary/sto...expansion.html

Apparently my community (Sunalta), expressed concerns over the elevated track. While I wasn't a resident of the area when this lobbying was going on, I haven't heard any complaints about elevated track going down 10th since I've moved in. Weird...

[GirlySports]

that article is from 2008!?

[shermanator]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

that article is from 2008!?

Yup, when the changes were made by council.

[frinkprof]

Originally Posted by shermanator

Moving the route to the median of Bow Trail not only repeats the errors the 36 St. NE saw, it will delay the finish of construction, as well as increase the price by 80% of a pedestrian bridge. Outrage!

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/calgary/sto...expansion.html

Apparently my community (Sunalta), expressed concerns over the elevated track. While I wasn't a resident of the area when this lobbying was going on, I haven't heard any complaints about elevated track going down 10th since I've moved in. Weird...

Commercial properties being just as good with keeping their parking under the elevated track combined with the fact that CPR generally does what they want with their land (or not wanting to give it up) led to the "Best West LRT" lobby group having to live with some elevated track.

The Best West LRT site no longer exists, but luckily I had saved some of their ridiculous renderings of what, in their words, the originally proposed elevated track portion WILL look like.







Also, this humorous photoshop, not brought to you by Best West LRT:

[frinkprof]

As promised, here's some pics. They are pretty dark though.

Sirocco Station area on Monday



Sirocco Station closer up yesterday



Substation at Christie Park Gate and 17th Ave. yesterday

[Ironhorse]

So how is snow removal going to be handled in the "trough" running along 17th Ave? I can imagine a lot of snow blowing in there during storms, and there isn't much room to push it aside.

[The Goon]

Originally Posted by Ironhorse

So how is snow removal going to be handled in the "trough" running along 17th Ave? I can imagine a lot of snow blowing in there during storms, and there isn't much room to push it aside.

In the area behind my house (the temporary bridge), yesterday the super-large blue crane was lifting giant storage containers of snow from the tunnel and dropping them on the street. Then they were being trucked away.

[4X4]

Originally Posted by Ironhorse

So how is snow removal going to be handled in the "trough" running along 17th Ave? I can imagine a lot of snow blowing in there during storms, and there isn't much room to push it aside.

They should just put cow catchers on the front of the trains and make them plow their own way. This is Alberta, dammit!

[jammies]

I must say I am seriously impressed with how quickly this construction is going forward. Somebody somewhere deserves a raise - maybe even several somebodies.

[Ducay]

Well gentlemen, how does the sweet taste of complaining victory taste?

Originally Posted by Nov 26 WestLRT Update for 26th/Bow

Lengthened the green time for eastbound and westbound Bow Trail. This green time is now the longest amount of green time given to any traffic movement in the city.

Minimized the green time for northbound and southbound traffic on 26 Street S.W.

Has anyone noticed a difference this week? I've been out of town on business, so Im curious to see if the adjusted timings are reducing the grossness of that interseciton.

[worth]

Someone should time the light. I'd be interested to know how long the "longest amount of green time" in the city is.

[ken0042]

Went down Bow Trail for lunch. The light stayed green for what seemed like a very long time - so it would appear it is indeed in place.

[Mazrim]

Originally Posted by worth

Someone should time the light. I'd be interested to know how long the "longest amount of green time" in the city is.

Before the Glenmore/37th interchange was finished, I'm sure the longest green time in the city was probably there. I'm guessing this one is set between 90-120 seconds.