LOST Season 5 - SPOILERS

[blankall]

Originally Posted by Maritime Q-Scout

I think there is a lot of meaning in the opening scene of the season finale



This raises a few things.

1 - it's possible to change the past, whatever happens happens, you can change the future, BUT there are no alternate realities . . . it only ends once.

2 - I almost thing there's a Battlestar Galactica theme in that conversation. It's all happened before, it will all happen again. How long, and how many lifetimes has Jacob and the antagonist been fighting?

3 - Did Jacob intise the Black Rock to come? If so, I think he left the option up to them, ergo he didn't bring them here, they chose to go (think how Hurley got back to the island, Jacob convinced him by leaving the choice to him)

4 - Relistening to the conversation, is the ending always the same, just the events leading up to it are different? Perhaps Jacob always winning the war, and the antagonist wants to kill him thinking it'll be his turn to win? If so, I think Jacob's side will still be victorious.

5 - Is Jacob or the Antagonist evil? I'm calling him the antagonist because Jacob is the focal point and he is Jacob's enemy, perhaps he's actually the progatonist?



On a side note. How the hell did the shop keeper know that the kids were stealing? The gaul to just walk up and accuse them and go through their bags. He was clearly tied up with the customers. Stupid continuity! LOL

Thanks for posting this stuff. I guess the rules that Richard was talking about refer to the "loophole". The game that Jacob and the antagonist are playing must have pretty strict rules.

Only the following people can speak with Jacob:

1) The leader, there is only leader at any given time. There may be additional restrictions to this as Ben has never seen Jacob before;
2) Richard, who is some kind of neutral referee who has been granted eternal life to referee the game;
3) and the Antagonist.

The antagonist, however, cannot kill Jacob directly.

The antagonist finds his loophole in that he can convince the leader to do his bidding. So the whole time Ben is really the leader, but the smoke monster tricks ben into thinking locke is and tricks Ben into thinking he must do whatever locke says. This is why he forces Ben to do his dirty business. The smoke monster also tricks Richard into thinking that Locke is the leader, which is why he never took him to Jacob before.

Also in the episode they make reference to richard as Ricardo which suggests he is spanish and came from the black rock.

[JiriHrdina]

I missed the first scene - did they not show the other dude at all so we don't know what he looks like?

[FlamesAddiction]

It kind of reminds me of ancient Greek mythology and how gods would pit humans against each other for their own amusement and egos.

[Antithesis]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

I missed the first scene - did they not show the other dude at all so we don't know what he looks like?

Wow, you missed a great scene. No, they did show his face, he just doesn't look like any character we have encountered before.

[ok, ok,....I get it]

BTW, any one know what Richard said when asked what lies in the shadow of the statue?

What was the language and what did he say

[blankall]

Now that I think about this some more. There is probabaly some simple explanation to all this that does not involve gods/monsters.

The thing about lost is they have been doing this since the first episode. Everything seems mysterious and magical but it almost always has an extremely simple and rational explanation. The time shifting stuff was a bit sci-fi, but for hte most part they keep things very realistic.

[Torture]

Originally Posted by ok, ok,....I get it

BTW, any one know what Richard said when asked what lies in the shadow of the statue?

What was the language and what did he say

Apparently "He who will protect us." in Latin...according to Lostpedia.

[ok, ok,....I get it]

I will miss her till next January

[Patrick]

Everyone is so focused on Jacob that no one is wondering who the group (that crashed on the 2nd plane) and have Locke's body are....

THey knew a phrase that Richard knew.. possibley another secret organization? A third fraction?

[GreenTeaFrapp]

Originally Posted by Patrick

Everyone is so focused on Jacob that no one is wondering who the group (that crashed on the 2nd plane) and have Locke's body are....

THey knew a phrase that Richard knew.. possibley another secret organization? A third fraction?

Well, Jacob did ask the main woman in that group for a favour when she was all bandaged up.

[gottabekd]

Originally Posted by Patrick

Everyone is so focused on Jacob that no one is wondering who the group (that crashed on the 2nd plane) and have Locke's body are....

THey knew a phrase that Richard knew.. possibley another secret organization? A third fraction?

Big guy carrying the crate is the same guy that warned Miles not to go to the island with the Widmore crew.

[ResAlien]

-Richard (Ricardus) predates the Black Rock ship imo

-I don't think Jacob did "save" Sayid from getting hit. He knew / planned that if his woman died it would get him back to the island. That, for the most part, seemed to be his goal. I don't think he's "good" so much as "above" right and wrong in his opinion, only getting to the end matters.

-Enabled young Kate to steal and not get in trouble, gave young Sawyer a pen to keep writing his hate letter, kept Locke going, I think Jacob is more of your "people will make the right choice" guy who keeps his hands off to prove a point that even when allowed to be bad people will make the right choice.

-It would have been extremely easy for Jacob to explain to Ben that Locke isn't who he thought he was and diffuse the situation, he didn't try to explain himself etc.

-It was the other guy, the antagonist, that has been who everyone thought was "Jacob" so far in the series. In the Cabin, the reanimated Christian Sheppard, basically all your hands on stuff.

-Probably also the smoke monster. Biggest point for me is when Ben attempted to summon the smoke monster, and coming out of the bushes was....the "possessed" Locke.

I'm sure I'll think of some more stuff later. Some points gleamed from The Onion discussion on the episode.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by ResAlien

-Richard (Ricardus)
-I don't think Jacob did "save" Sayid from getting hit. He knew / planned that if his woman died it would get him back to the island. That, for the most part, seemed to be his goal. I don't think he's "good" so much as "above" right and wrong in his opinion, only getting to the end matters.

-Enabled young Kate to steal and not get in trouble, gave young Sawyer a pen to keep writing his hate letter, kept Locke going, I think Jacob is more of your "people will make the right choice" guy who keeps his hands off to prove a point that even when allowed to be bad people will make the right choice.

Wow you were clearly paying attention better than I was. Maybe if there is some kind of a game, this is all part of it. They each get to pick people for the scenario, or maybe just Jacob gets to pick all the people.

This would also explain why Jacob was giving Ben lists.

Originally Posted by ResAlien

-It would have been extremely easy for Jacob to explain to Ben that Locke isn't who he thought he was and diffuse the situation, he didn't try to explain himself etc.

Maybe part of the game is that you can't tell people the true nature of the other party. That would ruin the game pretty quickly.

This would also explain why Jacob never told Ben the guy in the house was not him.

[ResAlien]

There's too much Egyptian mythology around the island for it to all be coincidence. I'm not as up on it as I should be, but I'm sure the Statue (either crocodile or hippo god) will play heavily into it, at least in what the two guys think. I think they'll avoid the "Gods" route for Jacob and "the antagonist" but some kind of curse / bet that was facilitated by a greater power on the island isn't outside the realm of possibility imo. Perhaps they're just bored immortals who've been playing this game forever, Jacob knowing his "picks" always win, hence the "the end is always the same, it's the details that change" viewpoint

A setup for Jack / Sawyer to become the new Jacob / Antagonist wouldn't surprise me any. Both have opposite viewpoints on people and how to get things done.

[Phanuthier]

Originally Posted by blankall

Thanks for posting this stuff. I guess the rules that Richard was talking about refer to the "loophole". The game that Jacob and the antagonist are playing must have pretty strict rules.

I was just thinking, the game of Jacob vs Antangonist seems to be similar to that of Ben vs Whitemore in Season 4, i.e. they can't kill each other, then saying the daughters were off limits. I dunno where I'm going with this...

[Finny61]

Remember when the survivors found the blue van, and there was a body in it with a jacket that said Horace.. = Sayid? Which makes me think that yes that bomb went off there is no question? And this is just one big time loop that will happen over and over until Jacob finds the certain key events that will change the future..meaning these loops are nothing but progress as he said?

[GreenTeaFrapp]

Originally Posted by Finny61

Remember when the survivors found the blue van, and there was a body in it with a jacket that said Horace.. = Sayid?

I thought the worksuit they found in the blue van was 'Roger Workman'.

[GreenTeaFrapp]

Originally Posted by Phanuthier

I was just thinking, the game of Jacob vs Antangonist seems to be similar to that of Ben vs Whitemore in Season 4, i.e. they can't kill each other, then saying the daughters were off limits. I dunno where I'm going with this...

That's the first thing I thought of when the Antangonist stated that he'd have to find a loophole to kill Jacob.

[StrayBullet]

Originally Posted by Finny61

Remember when the survivors found the blue van, and there was a body in it with a jacket that said Horace.. = Sayid? Which makes me think that yes that bomb went off there is no question? And this is just one big time loop that will happen over and over until Jacob finds the certain key events that will change the future..meaning these loops are nothing but progress as he said?

Originally Posted by GreenTeaFrapp

I thought the worksuit they found in the blue van was 'Roger Workman'.

Horace is Horace. The leader of Dharmaville.

Roger is Ben's father. Workman was his job title.

[Barnes]

Originally Posted by StrayBullet

Horace is Horace. The leader of Dharmaville.

Roger is Ben's father. Workman was his job title.

To expand...

It was Roger Hugo found in the van. Ben killed him with the gas that was used in the purge of Dharma. Horace was first 'seen' just after Locke was revived when Ben shot him and he was lying in the pit of Dharma bodies. He was chopping down a tree and claimed he was building a cabin.

Someone asked about Brahm and Alana and the others from the crash. We do know that the Others recruit off Island through a company called Mittelos Bioscience. Richard claims he is a recruiter from there while off island. Mittelos is an anagram for lost time.