NOVA - Intelligent Design On Trial

[troutman]

As predicted, it is happening again in Louisiana (and is expected soon in OK, NM and TX):

http://www.ncseweb.org/resources/new..._5_23_2008.asp

On May 21, 2008, Senate Bill 733 (PDF), the so-called Louisiana Science Education Act, was unanimously passed by the Louisiana House Education Committee. Before passage, the bill was amended slightly from the form which passed the Senate on April 29, 2008, as previously reported by NCSE. It now moves to the full House.

The Associated Press reports (May 21, 2008) that, over the course of a hearing that lasted close to three hours, "Science teachers called Senate Bill 733 a veiled attempt to add religion to science classes." The bill singles evolution out from other scientific theories, and states that a teacher "may use supplemental textbooks and other instructional materials to help students understand, analyze, critique, and review scientific theories in an objective manner."

The real intent is to introduce classroom materials that raise misleading objections to the well-documented science of evolution and offer a religious idea called intelligent design as a supposed alternative. That would unleash an assault against scientific integrity, leaving students confused about science and unprepared to excel in a modern workforce

[Hack&Lube]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

A colleague of mine has often stated to me (in private, as such statements tend to be misconstrued badly in a confessional institution such as the one at which I am employed) that he wishes that preachers would stop using the Bible. "The Bible," he says, "belongs in the university classroom and not in the pulpit." I have heard far too many great sermons that have been absolutely eviscerated because the preacher felt it necessary to bring the Bible into it.

I believe that a critical reading of Scripture is the best way to understand how we ought approach the books. That is not to say that I expect critical readings in my own church every Sunday, but that the function of the Bible in Church and in the lives of believers would be tremendously enhanced if only they understood the problems and issues that dominate the texts. You are right in this: A critical reading of the texts renders them somewhat inaccessible to the laity. People quite simply do not have the time, the wherewithall, or even the necessary skill to be their own interpreters of Scripture, and this is where the community of believers and the advise and input of Christian leaders is necessary. It is why, in the early Church, that much more was made of the oral traditions of the faith, the teachings of the Apostles and the traditional interpretations of difficult, ancient texts. It is why these things tended to supercede the Scriptures.


In an ironic twist of "fate"(?!), As I have progressed in my own career as a sort of "Biblical Scholar", the Bible, for me, has become much more meaningless in a confessional or sacramental sense. I read the Bible for a living, and as such, I ten to read it much more prolifically and carefully than the average person. But as an unexpected side effect of this, I have also come to find the Bible much less relevant and useful in my own Church—at least to the extent that it tends to be used.

This may come as something as a surprise, but as a biblical scholar, I have become more and more convinced that most North American Christians—particularly evangelical Christians—greatly exaggerate the importance of the Bible. Honestly, how much good is a book like Numbers or Leviticus or Daniel to the contemporary Church? I have heard many suggest that if we do not read the Bible literally in Church, then we must mine it for positive "examples" and "lessons" of faith to supplement our theological traditions. But I believe that even this is erroneous.

What the Bible is is this: a selection of individual works of sacred literature that Church leaders have affirmed through the ages to be the best written record of the faith. In my estimation, the value of the Bible for the believer is in that it preserves someone's perception of God. I must also recognize that this perception is not always accurate, or that it is often nuanced by culture, language, history, politics, and power. Nevertheless, there is value in reading about how ancient peoples struggled to understand who God was and how he acted in the world. In many respects, I look to the stories in Scripture and see something that resonates in my own experience with God; something that gives shape to what I think or feel, but am unable to put words to. Other times, I see perceptions of God that are foreign to my own, and which I believe to be outright false. Ideas presented in the name of God that do not accord well with how I have come to understand his character. I can see in the Psalms and in the various pieces of religious poetry exaggerations of the divide between the "holy" and the "profane"; between "divine" and "human"; between "good" and "evil". They help me to gauge my own response to God. In the prophecies and apocalyptic visions, I see a number of things: celebration of great hope; expectation for judgement and/or justice—depending upon which side of oppression one finds himself; an hyperbolic, dualistic sense of morality.

There is a great deal of tension within the Scriptures, and they should be read very much with this tension in the foreground. When it comes to my own church, often I feel that we would all benefit a great deal if we set the Bible aside—if only for a time, to develop a keener understanding of how to apply the mandate of justice, self-sacrifice, and righteousness that we believe to be at the heart of God's character. After we have figured this out, perhaps the record of people's struggles with God that is preserved in the Scriptures will become more intelligible and more meaningful.

Isn't this in large extent, a result from the largely protestant base in the U.S. taking the ultimate consequences of the Lutheran position that the Bible is the only true source of revelation? Left with nothing else to trust or rely on, people tend to regard it as the ultimate and only source truth, therefore pin everything onto it and thusly the importance placed without even a meagre understanding that they aren't even reading 1/100th of it usually. To accord it such divine status for most people means that it must be perfect and yet it is one of the most imperfect books...it's just a compilation of different books and writings (as evolved, added to [ie: Esther], subtracted from, changed, and rewritten) that a bunch of people in the proto-Dark Ages sat around in a council picking and choosing (and undoubtedly arguing and fighting over) what they wanted in and what they wanted left out...also due to their own understanding, biases, philosophical positions, or even politics... If that scripture then is imperfect and you decide to set it aside to concentrate on other aspects that might be more comforting as you say, then you might perhaps reach the conclusion that what defines Christianity and it's doctrine and dogma is not really that different from many other religious aspirations or feelings...and your personal interpretation becomes your own source of revelation.

[dissentowner]

The first thing I thought of when I saw the title thread, NO NOVA!

Ok, you had to see the movie Short Circuit to get it...

[Thor]

Originally Posted by troutman

As predicted, it is happening again in Louisiana (and is expected soon in OK, NM and TX):

http://www.ncseweb.org/resources/new..._5_23_2008.asp

On May 21, 2008, Senate Bill 733 (PDF), the so-called Louisiana Science Education Act, was unanimously passed by the Louisiana House Education Committee. Before passage, the bill was amended slightly from the form which passed the Senate on April 29, 2008, as previously reported by NCSE. It now moves to the full House.

The Associated Press reports (May 21, 2008) that, over the course of a hearing that lasted close to three hours, "Science teachers called Senate Bill 733 a veiled attempt to add religion to science classes." The bill singles evolution out from other scientific theories, and states that a teacher "may use supplemental textbooks and other instructional materials to help students understand, analyze, critique, and review scientific theories in an objective manner."

The real intent is to introduce classroom materials that raise misleading objections to the well-documented science of evolution and offer a religious idea called intelligent design as a supposed alternative. That would unleash an assault against scientific integrity, leaving students confused about science and unprepared to excel in a modern workforce

Disturbing indeed

[MelBridgeman]

Originally Posted by troutman

As predicted, it is happening again in Louisiana (and is expected soon in OK, NM and TX):

http://www.ncseweb.org/resources/new..._5_23_2008.asp

On May 21, 2008, Senate Bill 733 (PDF), the so-called Louisiana Science Education Act, was unanimously passed by the Louisiana House Education Committee. Before passage, the bill was amended slightly from the form which passed the Senate on April 29, 2008, as previously reported by NCSE. It now moves to the full House.

The Associated Press reports (May 21, 2008) that, over the course of a hearing that lasted close to three hours, "Science teachers called Senate Bill 733 a veiled attempt to add religion to science classes." The bill singles evolution out from other scientific theories, and states that a teacher "may use supplemental textbooks and other instructional materials to help students understand, analyze, critique, and review scientific theories in an objective manner."

The real intent is to introduce classroom materials that raise misleading objections to the well-documented science of evolution and offer a religious idea called intelligent design as a supposed alternative. That would unleash an assault against scientific integrity, leaving students confused about science and unprepared to excel in a modern workforce

really who cares? Let them believe what they want, let them teach what they want, if there is a huge opposition too it then take your goverment to task...If you dont like it, dont move there!

[troutman]

Originally Posted by MelBridgeman

really who cares? Let them believe what they want, let them teach what they want, if there is a huge opposition too it then take your goverment to task...If you dont like it, dont move there!

Who cares? This thread is 18 pages.

Sounds like you would fit in there perfectly.

[MelBridgeman]

Originally Posted by troutman

Who cares? This thread is 18 pages.

Sounds like you would fit in there perfectly.

That wasn't directed at your post buddy.
I don't care about the bill or what they do in Louisiana.
So have a nice tall cool one, sit and relax, take a deep breath and maybe reconsider your assumption on the second line of your retort.
Imagine someone of a different opinion who can tolerant other opinions regardless of how insane they may be, world would be a better place with more of those people.

[photon]

No one's talking about being tolerant of other opinions.. they're talking about allowing a group of people knowingly lying to get something introduced into the schools so they can have their opinions where they shouldn't be.

I care what happens in Louisiana because if it happens there, and spreads, then it could potentially happen here too, and at the very least we should know about this so they can watch for it.

It's funny you mention being tolerant.. I haven't seen anyone who supports the teaching of evolution in science classes say that those people should not be allowed to hold whatever opinions they want. No intolerance there. However the opponents to teaching evolution clearly say that evolution is corrupt and the root cause of the moral decay of society. Heck there's a movie in theaters that spends most of its time trying to link evolution and Nazis. Who's being intolerant?

[troutman]

Originally Posted by MelBridgeman

That wasn't directed at your post buddy.
I don't care about the bill or what they do in Louisiana.
So have a nice tall cool one, sit and relax, take a deep breath and maybe reconsider your assumption on the second line of your retort.
Imagine someone of a different opinion who can tolerant other opinions regardless of how insane they may be, world would be a better place with more of those people.

Thanks for the lectures . . . buddy.

[MelBridgeman]

Originally Posted by photon

I care what happens in Louisiana because if it happens there, and spreads, then it could potentially happen here too, and at the very least we should know about this so they can watch for it.

I suppose if it's the will of the people, but no offense photon but that is a pretty weak reason to care...there is no way in hell that would ever happen here if you wanted to stay elected.
There is intolerance on both sides, i get it. Why is something like this in Senate? Why would politicians risk potential political sucide on something that has only minority support? Something doesnt add up, i would assume it has lot of support, to that i say who cares, but it certainly is crazy.

[Azure]

Even if they are lying....I really don't care.

I mean, lots of people lie, openly, publically, and nobody really makes a big deal out of it. In fact, in lots of situations, its ignored or not even mentioned.

I don't care, sure....but its still disturbing I guess.

[photon]

In the US though it isn't political suicide, because in many cases the crazy people are running the asylum, in many places it's a majority support... and it's only that pesky constitution that's keeping things sane.

I hope you are right about it not happening here, and one of the ways to make sure it doesn't is to educate people that it is possible, there is a group of people willing to subvert the process to their own ends.

[MelBridgeman]

Originally Posted by troutman

Thanks for the lectures . . . buddy.

Sorry man i should of worded both my posts better.

Anyways nothing in the US shocks me anymore..

[jammies]

There is a huge difference between lying in general, and teaching kids lies. The latter is always and everywhere wrong, because children's minds absorb everything uncritically, and the damage done can never be totally erased. I don't see any issue with people feeling passionately about such cases, frankly I find it perplexing that anyone could NOT care, regardless of where it happens.

[Thor]

Originally Posted by Azure

Even if they are lying....I really don't care.

I mean, lots of people lie, openly, publically, and nobody really makes a big deal out of it. In fact, in lots of situations, its ignored or not even mentioned.

I don't care, sure....but its still disturbing I guess.

When a group of people are trying to systematically force religion onto a science class, its definitely something that bothers me.

Every single time this happens, we have to fight it, because if we don't it can spread.

Its not like we need to dumb down the youth of America further with Creationism in Science class, those kids grow up to become politicians and people with influence and power.

[troutman]

Originally Posted by MelBridgeman

Sorry man i should of worded both my posts better.

Anyways nothing in the US shocks me anymore..

No worries - keep sticking it to Canuck Nation.

[troutman]

Originally Posted by photon

In the US though it isn't political suicide, because in many cases the crazy people are running the asylum, in many places it's a majority support... and it's only that pesky constitution that's keeping things sane.

I hope you are right about it not happening here, and one of the ways to make sure it doesn't is to educate people that it is possible, there is a group of people willing to subvert the process to their own ends.

It is happening in Alberta. There is a creation museum in Central Alberta. A parent group in Cochrane is organizing against the pushing of religion in a public school there. Many of my parent's friends in rural Alberta reject evolution.

There is a great political divide in North America between Christian conservatives and everyone else.

[metal_geek]

What's wrong with teaching children about creationism?...

Watch this and tell me what's wrong with it...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9D8Ae...-are-pure-evil
________
Krissy

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Thor

When a group of people are trying to systematically force religion onto a science class, its definitely something that bothers me.

Every single time this happens, we have to fight it, because if we don't it can spread.

Its not like we need to dumb down the youth of America further with Creationism in Science class, those kids grow up to become politicians and people with influence and power.

I agree with fighting it....but I'm not exactly worried about it.

Even if they don't 'force' it into the science classroom, these kids are still going to be taught this stuff at home.

So why should I worry about something that I have no control over?

[mykalberta]

Just a question. I assume human evolution from a single cell organism can be proved 100% correct?

If so, can you post a link - unless things have changed since I was in Uni, its still only a theory and cant 100% be proved.

Species adapting to changing situations and weeding out the weak and promoting the strong can be proved.