[News] Conroy, Maloney, Nonis and Pascall all extended 2 years

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Bingo

From what we are hearing though, Conroy gets to make the decisions. Glad he has people to bounce things off of.

I’d be astonished if Conroy could propose a strategy of gutting the roster, with a high likelihood of finishing bottom-5 in the league for the next 3 seasons, and Maloney and Edwards would just say “sure Craig, if you think that’s best.”

Ownership needs buy-in for those major strategic decisions, with the Flames and virtually every other team in the NHL. There have been many credible sources over the course of many years saying Edwards makes the call at that level. And that he takes a hand in major hockey decisions like signing Gaudreau, dealing Markstrom*, and the possibility of moving Kadri.

* Multiple sources reported Conroy and Fitzgerald thought they had a deal for Markstrom before someone else in the Flames organization (presumably Edwards or Maloney) nixed it.

Originally Posted by Bingo

I've had many "eras" where hope was gone because I didn't like what was happening at the top.

Feaster for one, and then the odd Sutter losing his mind and trading assets for quantity era.

There’s disagreement on this forum on whether Conroy is ‘at the top’’, or whether this team’s direction and culture ultimately come down from Edwards (and his proxy Maloney). For those of us who believe the latter, the individual who sits in the GM’s chair isn’t the most important factor in the team’s outlook.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

I’d be astonished if Conroy could propose a strategy of gutting the roster, with a high likelihood of finishing bottom-5 in the league for the next 3 seasons, and Maloney and Edwards would just say “sure Craig, if you think that’s best.”

Ownership needs buy-in for those major strategic decisions, with the Flames and virtually every other team in the NHL. There have been many credible sources over the course of many years saying Edwards makes the call at that level. And that he takes a hand in major hockey decisions like signing Gaudreau, dealing Markstrom*, and the possibility of moving Kadri.

* Multiple sources reported Conroy and Fitzgerald thought they had a deal for Markstrom before someone else in the Flames organization (presumably Edwards or Maloney) nixed it.



There’s disagreement on this forum on whether Conroy is in charge, or whether this team’s direction and culture ultimately come down from Edwards (and his proxy Maloney). For those of us who believe the latter, the individual who sits in the GM’s chair isn’t the most important factor in the team’s outlook.

Believe whatever you want to believe.

I'm not sure that the team wants to get to a bottom five pick. Have no idea.

I do know they've moved many veterans, including three players before they played a game in a season, sat on $20M in cap space for two straight years, and didn't spend any draft capital to improve a team in the playoffs at last year's deadline.

I'll choose to go with what's happening and not what I fear will never happen.

[PepsiFree]

Hope and positivity becomes far less strange once you really square the fact that this is an entertainment product and none of this actually matters beyond how much joy we’re able to derive from it (it being the Flames or hockey in general). Nobody gets a medal for being the most critical fan, nor the most positive, but one sure feels a lot better. I’m not going to fault people who use it as an outlet for whatever but I’m going to have more fun.

Plus I’d be lying if I said it wasn’t also entertaining to see the reactions being that way gets. Being able to truly say you don’t care whether a management contract was signed in week 35 or 45, that you hope one of your favourite players who isn’t under 25 signs long term, or that you enjoyed a win, and knowing someone is absolutely going to hate you for it is so funny.

You just have to laugh when people say things like “they defend everything!” or “there’s so many homers here!” On a message board full of fans of a team talking about that team? No way! That’s crazy! Next thing you know you might accidentally meet a huge David Jones fan.

[Jiri Hrdina]

For me it comes down to the fact that if you aren't enjoying the ride, what's the point. I find joy in most seasons in some manner. There's been a couple of notable exceptions including Sutter's last year here, and the Brian Elliott year. But for the most part, I try to find joy in whatever is going on. I don't understand people who choose to imagine the worst case scenarios and focus entirely on those. And try to drag others down with them into that muck.

[GioforPM]

It's sort of "no lose" for the pessimists. Either things go badly and they are proven right (which seems to be quite important to them) or things go well and no one remembers because of the good vibes.

[kehatch]

The MO for the board is to brand anyone with concerns about the Flames.

The reality is the Flames have made one notable move in 17 months, and it wasn't rebuild related. Conroy has traded one player that wasn't a pending UFA, and that was a disgruntled goalie when the Flames had 3 goalies. Even with the pending UFAs gone, the majority of ice time leaders on the team are older.

It is a fair concern that the Flames decided to take a wait and see approach after the little bit of success from last season. That is consistent with their history, the recent PR messaging, the internal team messaging, and what most members of the media believe.

[Calgary4LIfe]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

For me it comes down to the fact that if you aren't enjoying the ride, what's the point. I find joy in most seasons in some manner. There's been a couple of notable exceptions including Sutter's last year here, and the Brian Elliott year. But for the most part, I try to find joy in whatever is going on. I don't understand people who choose to imagine the worst case scenarios and focus entirely on those. And try to drag others down with them into that muck.

I get what your overall message here is, especially with people who ALWAYS seems so negative.


However, this argument just never makes sense to me. By your argument, you are exactly describing the difference between hard-core fans, and 'bandwagon or fair weather' fans, no?


Hard-core fans stick with the team in the bad times and through terrible decision-making, but to expect them to just enjoy the ride is not reality. People get angry and upset, and yet they still stick with that team through and through.


There are many fans on even successful teams that criticize their teams in large doses too, even though they have recent cup wins. When you think about it, it is amazing that Calgary has any fans left considering their lack of success, right? If we were all fair weather fans, this forum wouldn't exist. Again, I get what you are trying to say here - if the team you cheer for causes you this much unpleasantness, you should find something else. Fandom doesn't work that way at all, however, unless you don't really care to begin with.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by kehatch

The MO for the board is to brand anyone with concerns about the Flames.

The reality is the Flames have made one notable move in 17 months, and it wasn't rebuild related. Conroy has traded one player that wasn't a pending UFA, and that was a disgruntled goalie when the Flames had 3 goalies. Even with the pending UFAs gone, the majority of ice time leaders on the team are older.

It is a fair concern that the Flames decided to take a wait and see approach after the little bit of success from last season. That is consistent with their history, the recent PR messaging, the internal team messaging, and what most members of the media believe.

They also traded Toffoli and Mangiapane and no team other than the team they were traded for could have their rights at the start of the season after they were traded. So they definitely were not pending UfAs either. So the answer is 3 players who were not free agents on the next July 1st.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

It's sort of "no lose" for the pessimists. Either things go badly and they are proven right (which seems to be quite important to them) or things go well and no one remembers because of the good vibes.

And inevitably the Flames will pick a player that they personally never wanted them to pick. It is all upside for that crowd.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

They also traded Toffoli and Mangiapane and no team other than the team they were traded for could have their rights at the start of the season after they were traded. So they definitely were not pending UfAs either. So the answer is 3 players who were not free agents on the next July 1st.

And that is pretty much the norm (or better) for rebuilding teams. Because it's simply easier to trade pending UFAs.

[traptor]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Believe whatever you want to believe.

I'm not sure that the team wants to get to a bottom five pick. Have no idea.

I do know they've moved many veterans, including three players before they played a game in a season, sat on $20M in cap space for two straight years, and didn't spend any draft capital to improve a team in the playoffs at last year's deadline.

I'll choose to go with what's happening and not what I fear will never happen.

Just to add onto what has actually happened with this iteration:
22/23 - Missed playoffs, picked 16th oa
23/24 - Missed playoffs, picked 9th oa
24/25 - Missed playoffs, picked 18th oa

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

For me it comes down to the fact that if you aren't enjoying the ride, what's the point. I find joy in most seasons in some manner. There's been a couple of notable exceptions including Sutter's last year here, and the Brian Elliott year. But for the most part, I try to find joy in whatever is going on. I don't understand people who choose to imagine the worst case scenarios and focus entirely on those. And try to drag others down with them into that muck.

Glad you're having fun. Personally these last 4 years since the big "retool" have been my least favorite iteration of the flames I've watched. I try to enjoy the wins, but I know this version is not going anywhere and unfortunately losses will end up being more rewarding for my enjoyment.
Keeping vets and picking in the teens just drags this feeling another year for me.

To me, moving vets and snagging a top 5 pick represents a transition into a new exciting iteration.

[kehatch]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

They also traded Toffoli and Mangiapane and no team other than the team they were traded for could have their rights at the start of the season after they were traded. So they definitely were not pending UfAs either. So the answer is 3 players who were not free agents on the next July 1st.

They were traded in the off season with one more NHL season remaining under contract. How does being traded June 27 versus July 1 change anything related to the post you were quoting? Answer, if doesn't.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by kehatch

They were traded in the off season with one more NHL season remaining under contract. How does being traded June 27 versus July 1 change anything related to the post you were quoting? Answer, if doesn't.

I don't find these semantic arguments really interesting, but I think the difference is more between trading a player the off-season before their UFA status v. heading into that season's trade deadline.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by traptor

Glad you're having fun. Personally these last 4 years since the big "retool" have been my least favorite iteration of the flames I've watched. I try to enjoy the wins, but I know this version is not going anywhere and unfortunately losses will end up being more rewarding for my enjoyment.
Keeping vets and picking in the teens just drags this feeling another year for me.

To me, moving vets and snagging a top 5 pick represents a transition into a new exciting iteration.

I don't just get enjoyment from watching games. And when I do my approach is to cheer for a win, and be perfectly content with a loss right now.

When I talk about finding joy, I find the process interesting in terms of how this team will build itself back up. Trades are fun. The draft is REALLY fun particularly with more picks.

If the Flames end up with say the 7th pick this year, plus the Vegas pick, that will not be ideal, but I'll still find it super interesting and fun approaching that draft.

I can't control any of this, so I take the joy from where I can get it.

I'm also not here to tell anyone how to be a fan. People can decide that for themselves. I push back on a small number of posters who are nothing but negative without posting anything interesting. I appreciate the posters who have a critical view to the organization, but at least try to add to the conversation. The small number of high volume constant complaining posters, I admit to having a hard time with.

[Mr.Coffee]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Hope and positivity becomes far less strange once you really square the fact that this is an entertainment product and none of this actually matters beyond how much joy we’re able to derive from it (it being the Flames or hockey in general). Nobody gets a medal for being the most critical fan, nor the most positive, but one sure feels a lot better. I’m not going to fault people who use it as an outlet for whatever but I’m going to have more fun.

Plus I’d be lying if I said it wasn’t also entertaining to see the reactions being that way gets. Being able to truly say you don’t care whether a management contract was signed in week 35 or 45, that you hope one of your favourite players who isn’t under 25 signs long term, or that you enjoyed a win, and knowing someone is absolutely going to hate you for it is so funny.

You just have to laugh when people say things like “they defend everything!” or “there’s so many homers here!” On a message board full of fans of a team talking about that team? No way! That’s crazy! Next thing you know you might accidentally meet a huge David Jones fan.

Yeah, honestly you’re right, and this is all true.

I feel like you do a better job of explaining these types of things than most. I think it’s a bit of frustration/ venting though sometimes coming from some folks (myself included). We all just want to see them win a Cup.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by kehatch

They were traded in the off season with one more NHL season remaining under contract. How does being traded June 27 versus July 1 change anything related to the post you were quoting? Answer, if doesn't.

I agree, on either date you would have been wrong and in both cases they would not have been a pending free agent.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by kehatch

They were traded in the off season with one more NHL season remaining under contract. How does being traded June 27 versus July 1 change anything related to the post you were quoting? Answer, if doesn't.

I don't see it as June 27 vs July 1st.

I see it as June 27 vs March 8th.

If a team was hell bent on staying in the mushy middle they wouldn't trade upper roster assets before a game was even played.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

For me it comes down to the fact that if you aren't enjoying the ride, what's the point. I find joy in most seasons in some manner. There's been a couple of notable exceptions including Sutter's last year here, and the Brian Elliott year. But for the most part, I try to find joy in whatever is going on. I don't understand people who choose to imagine the worst case scenarios and focus entirely on those. And try to drag others down with them into that muck.

There are a handful of people on this forum who are always negative. But are most of the people on CP and in the media complaining about the Maloney’s statements and the handling of the contracts people who are never happy? Are posters like Cobra, Vinny, SuperMatt18, and members of the media like Kent Wilson, Ryan Pinder, and Scorpion unrelentingly negative about the Flames?

If we can move past the strawmen, there is a genuine issue worth talking about for people who are interested in this sort of thing:

A) What is the strategic direction of the team?

B) Is it likely to be successful?

C) How much say does ownership have in this direction, and how much influence has that had on the franchises’ lack of success over the last 20 years.

If people aren’t interested in those questions, that’s fine. There are lots of ways to be a fan. But you don’t have to be unrelentingly negative to have a critical assessment of those questions.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

There are a handful of people on this forum who are always negative. But are most of the people on CP and in the media complaining about the Maloney’s statements and the handling of the contracts people who are never happy? Are posters like Cobra, Vinny, SuperMatt18, and members of the media like Kent Wilson, Ryan Pinder, and Scorpion unrelentingly negative about the Flames?

To be clear, I'm not talking about any of those posters.

I think FlamesNation is taking a more negative slant on the team, and playing into it. Which makes sense and I suspect is intentional to be a counter choice to 960, which can't do it to the same degree.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

A) What is the strategic direction of the team?

B) Is it likely to be successful?

C) How much say does ownership have in this direction, and how much influence has that had on the franchises’ lack of success over the last 20 years.

A) Clearly rebuilding

B) You never know, but they've drafted well in the last three years both in number of high picks, and the value obtained by their selections so it's off to a good start in my mind.

c) We will never know. I'd say all owners are involved. What we've seen from Conroy in the last 2+ years makes the previous 18 years less relevant in my mind.