This is a rebuild

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by BurningSteel

When are we moving Huberdeau?

In 5 years to LTIR

[Cappy]

Originally Posted by BurningSteel

When are we moving Huberdeau?

7 years from now. It's an albatross no matter how you look at it. And for a rebuilding team, it doesn't matter anymore as it keeps the team closer to the floor.

[HitterD]

Originally Posted by Goriders

Think we’re going to find out in the next week or two what the near future looks like.

They have a ton of cap space. Will conman use it?

Not picking on you but i'm seeing this a lot. Conman????

Hasn't his nickname been Connie since basically forever ago? does he get a nickname change because he's the GM now? /rant haha

As for the near future, I see mid-range, short-term free agent deals (likely overpays), but tradeable over the next couple of years.

[NewFan]

I'm glad that the Flames are rebuilding.
It's funny that Flames organization doesn't want say "rebuild" but everybody else know that the Flames is rebuilding.
I hope the hockey god let us win the lottery at least once.

[devo22]

Originally Posted by NewFan

I'm glad that the Flames are rebuilding.
It's funny that Flames organization doesn't want say "rebuild" but everybody else know that the Flames is rebuilding.
I hope the hockey god let us win the lottery at least once.

the really frustrating thing is that they had to be dragged into it kicking and screaming. When Gaudreau went to UFA and Tkachuk wanted out, that was the point to tap out and start the process. I get that was difficult with a coach like Sutter and after a really good regular season, but it would have made sense. Instead, Treliving went into a different direction with the Tkachuk trade and, unforgiveably, the Monahan trade and Kadri signing. It just ended up delaying the inevitable, thanks to all the pending UFAs tying their hands by not re-signing ... but we should have started the process earlier than it happened. The Flames are rebuilding because they have absolutely no other choice and I'm glad it finally happens, but they should have been proactive about it.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

I think that was a one-off. And it was more about Bobrovsky. Plus, they barely made it in. So I think they had a lot of horseshoes (TB exiting helped and it’s always nice to play the Leafs in round 2.

How can something that happened in back to back years be a one-off? never mind all the outstanding playoff performances Bennett gave the Flames while playing with guys like Chiasson, Lucic, Colborne, and Jankowski instead of Tkachuk.

[Zamboniman]

Maybe they're just going to tear it down and leave it that way!

So....stay the course and do what they've been doing for decades now?

[Calgary4LIfe]

I think Conroy is going to prove himself a much better GM than Treliving through this rebuild. Bennett was handled poorly. Say what you will about a portion of it resting on Bennett, but there should have been a priority on making sure that the highest ever Flames' pick was given better opportunity and linemates, deserved or not. Heck, Bennett might have been a better player today in Calgary than he is in Florida. Who knows?



One thing i find interesting is how Conroy will talk about Hartley, but he doesn't normally talk about any other coach until Sutter. For me, it seems like he agrees with how Hartley was developing the prospects. I think it really showed. Hartley - like Huska is doing - would give prospects opportunity. He would sometimes bench them, demote them, etc., but he would always bring them back and give them a long leash. Certainly the mind games and so on were nonsense, but but he continually gave prospects the opportunity to develop. As a young player, you might be in Hartley's doghouse for a while, but he will get you out and give you opportunity again. Didn't do that with a lot of the vets though, but the point of this post is about development.


Huska is the coach that reminds me of Hartley the most when it comes to developing them. He has been really good at giving prospects the opportunity. Gulutzan hasn't. Peters hasn't. Ward definitely did not. Sutter didn't really. Huska is. I love the fact that just like Hartley, Huska is not afraid to bench and demote players, but he builds them up again and gives the young players a long leash. The nice change in Huska vs Hartley is that he does this for every player, not just prospects. If you were a vet in Hartley's doghouse, you should probably ask for a trade. The young kids loved him, the vets hated him. It seems to me that Huska has everyone's respect in that room, and isn't creating a division.


Point is, this is what Conroy is preaching. Patience, building through the draft, prospects having to earn their place, but also be given the right opportunities to do so.



I am really excited about this rebuild. It won't be a scorched-earth mess where you are losing 9-1 often. It is going to be a lot of 2-1, 3-2 and 4-3 losses. Conroy wants to field a competitive team, but not a winner. This is by design, as he wants prospects to develop in a system that is already competing, rather than trying to flip that switch and get them to play the right way. Hartley was like that, which is why a kid like Baertschi stood out like a sore thumb, but a kid like Bennett shined.


I believe that there will be more trades, but that the Flames will likely end up getting solid but overpaid vets to help shoulder the load. Backlund pushes this team. Say what you will about Huberdeau's contract vs his output, but he competes. Coleman is here and I have yet to see him give up on a shift since the Flames signed him. Weegar plays hard. Kadri - outside of the first season here anyway - plays hard, and he surprised me as he played hard all year, even after the Flames were out of it post deadline.



I think there is a decent chance that more vets move, possibly including some I have mentioned. Conroy will bring in others. Don't be shocked to see him giving out pretty significant dollars to some vets, though on low-term. This team will be playing hard, but they are going to be designed to finish in the bottom 3 or so. As I said before, every other team in the basement has been making improvements and should start elevating. Calgary has just torn it down. I wouldn't be shocked to see them finish 32 overall this year, though 29-30 is more likely.

Either way, the Flames are in very good hands with Conroy and Huska guiding this team through the rebuild.

[Shazam]

Originally Posted by Calgary4LIfe

I think Conroy is going to prove himself a much better GM than Treliving through this rebuild. Bennett was handled poorly. Say what you will about a portion of it resting on Bennett, but there should have been a priority on making sure that the highest ever Flames' pick was given better opportunity and linemates, deserved or not. Heck, Bennett might have been a better player today in Calgary than he is in Florida. Who knows?

Wasn't the reason Bennett "had" to be traded was that Calgary couldn't protect him in the expansion draft?

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

How can something that happened in back to back years be a one-off? never mind all the outstanding playoff performances Bennett gave the Flames while playing with guys like Chiasson, Lucic, Colborne, and Jankowski instead of Tkachuk.

Look at the date I posted that prediction.

Obviously I was wrong and it was not a one off - Bennett and Tkachuk were important in getting to the finals again (once in they were not a big factor though). But I thought it was at the time.

[Bingo Jr.]

Originally Posted by Calgary4LIfe

I think Conroy is going to prove himself a much better GM than Treliving through this rebuild. Bennett was handled poorly. Say what you will about a portion of it resting on Bennett, but there should have been a priority on making sure that the highest ever Flames' pick was given better opportunity and linemates, deserved or not. Heck, Bennett might have been a better player today in Calgary than he is in Florida. Who knows?



One thing i find interesting is how Conroy will talk about Hartley, but he doesn't normally talk about any other coach until Sutter. For me, it seems like he agrees with how Hartley was developing the prospects. I think it really showed. Hartley - like Huska is doing - would give prospects opportunity. He would sometimes bench them, demote them, etc., but he would always bring them back and give them a long leash. Certainly the mind games and so on were nonsense, but but he continually gave prospects the opportunity to develop. As a young player, you might be in Hartley's doghouse for a while, but he will get you out and give you opportunity again. Didn't do that with a lot of the vets though, but the point of this post is about development.


Huska is the coach that reminds me of Hartley the most when it comes to developing them. He has been really good at giving prospects the opportunity. Gulutzan hasn't. Peters hasn't. Ward definitely did not. Sutter didn't really. Huska is. I love the fact that just like Hartley, Huska is not afraid to bench and demote players, but he builds them up again and gives the young players a long leash. The nice change in Huska vs Hartley is that he does this for every player, not just prospects. If you were a vet in Hartley's doghouse, you should probably ask for a trade. The young kids loved him, the vets hated him. It seems to me that Huska has everyone's respect in that room, and isn't creating a division.


Point is, this is what Conroy is preaching. Patience, building through the draft, prospects having to earn their place, but also be given the right opportunities to do so.



I am really excited about this rebuild. It won't be a scorched-earth mess where you are losing 9-1 often. It is going to be a lot of 2-1, 3-2 and 4-3 losses. Conroy wants to field a competitive team, but not a winner. This is by design, as he wants prospects to develop in a system that is already competing, rather than trying to flip that switch and get them to play the right way. Hartley was like that, which is why a kid like Baertschi stood out like a sore thumb, but a kid like Bennett shined.


I believe that there will be more trades, but that the Flames will likely end up getting solid but overpaid vets to help shoulder the load. Backlund pushes this team. Say what you will about Huberdeau's contract vs his output, but he competes. Coleman is here and I have yet to see him give up on a shift since the Flames signed him. Weegar plays hard. Kadri - outside of the first season here anyway - plays hard, and he surprised me as he played hard all year, even after the Flames were out of it post deadline.



I think there is a decent chance that more vets move, possibly including some I have mentioned. Conroy will bring in others. Don't be shocked to see him giving out pretty significant dollars to some vets, though on low-term. This team will be playing hard, but they are going to be designed to finish in the bottom 3 or so. As I said before, every other team in the basement has been making improvements and should start elevating. Calgary has just torn it down. I wouldn't be shocked to see them finish 32 overall this year, though 29-30 is more likely.

Either way, the Flames are in very good hands with Conroy and Huska guiding this team through the rebuild.

Couldn't agree more with the Bennett part. People forget that it was Conroy who suggested to Huska that they move Sharky off the 4th line, paid off dividends instantly. Conroy has a real eye for talent, that's one of his main weapons.

[Calgary4LIfe]

Originally Posted by Shazam

Wasn't the reason Bennett "had" to be traded was that Calgary couldn't protect him in the expansion draft?

The point of Bennett in my post wasn't for that season, but for his overall development. By the time that trade happened, or even the reasoning behind it, wasn't something I touched on. I was just stating that sometimes, you have to prioritize development, especially when it comes to high-value picks that may just need some extra time and opportunity.

[taxbuster]

Trying to understand what the “target year” might be here for being a “contender” again. Doesn’t look to me like any time before the 28-29 season (ie 3 seasons of meh then maybe contention) IF all the weaponization of cap space discussed takes place.

[traptor]

Originally Posted by taxbuster

Trying to understand what the “target year” might be here for being a “contender” again. Doesn’t look to me like any time before the 28-29 season (ie 3 seasons of meh then maybe contention) IF all the weaponization of cap space discussed takes place.

Doubt we're a serious contender in 3 years.


I think in 3 years we can really start building it up again and be looking ti try and get into playoffs though.


Can't help but think the other rebuilding teams loke the ducks, hawks and blue jackets are much further along in their rebuilds and will take a big step first.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by taxbuster

Trying to understand what the “target year” might be here for being a “contender” again. Doesn’t look to me like any time before the 28-29 season (ie 3 seasons of meh then maybe contention) IF all the weaponization of cap space discussed takes place.

Historically, teams that draft top prospects win the Cup while those players are on their ELC, or the chances of them winning at all drops dramatically.

So, assuming Parekh hits and we draft top 5 next year, we should be contenders by 2026-27. If we aren’t… who knows, could take 10 years.

[Ped]

While the team may have a target year, it seems silly to actually set one. It depends on how your prospects develop, and how long it takes because development isn't always linear, and sometimes prospects take a jump, or fall down after a great start. The best thing is just to see how it goes, and if things aren't going according to plan, don't be afraid to change it up.


Parekh could be the next Cale Makar or the next Ryan Merkley or a whole lot of things in between. See how he develops, work with him to overcome his weaknesses, and just see how it goes.

[Flamesfan05]

Originally Posted by taxbuster

Trying to understand what the “target year” might be here for being a “contender” again. Doesn’t look to me like any time before the 28-29 season (ie 3 seasons of meh then maybe contention) IF all the weaponization of cap space discussed takes place.

It took Mackinnon and McDavid 5-6 yrs even to make the playoffs. The flames don’t even have those pieces yet. I think 2030 at the minimum

[Shazam]

Originally Posted by Calgary4LIfe

The point of Bennett in my post wasn't for that season, but for his overall development. By the time that trade happened, or even the reasoning behind it, wasn't something I touched on. I was just stating that sometimes, you have to prioritize development, especially when it comes to high-value picks that may just need some extra time and opportunity.

Absolutely. But the trade was framed as something else.

Tre was a master BSer.

[flambers]

Originally Posted by Flamesfan05

It took Mackinnon and McDavid 5-6 yrs even to make the playoffs. The flames don’t even have those pieces yet. I think 2030 at the minimum

My guess the owners will want Conroy to gear up and have a team that is competitive when the building opens, (3 to 4 years)

They won't want a bottom place team going into a new building

That's my guess

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Historically, teams that draft top prospects win the Cup while those players are on their ELC, or the chances of them winning at all drops dramatically.

So, assuming Parekh hits and we draft top 5 next year, we should be contenders by 2026-27. If we aren’t… who knows, could take 10 years.

This isn't true.

Florida Panthers won in 2024
1st Overall 2014: Aaron Ekblad
2nd Overall 2013: Sasha Barkov
3rd: Overall 2011: Jonathan Huberdeau

Colorado Avalanche won in 2022
2nd Overall in 2011: Gabriel Landeskog
1st Overall in 2013: Nathan MacKinnon
10th Overall in 2015: Mikko Rantanen
4th Overall in 2017: Cale Makar

Tampa Bay Lightning won in 2021, 2020
1st Overall in 2008: Steven Stamkos
2nd Overall in 2009: Victor Hedman

Pittsburgh Penguins won in 2017, 2016, 2009
1st Overall in 2003: Marc Andre Fleury
2nd Overall in 2004: Evgeni Malkin
1st Overall in 2009: Sidney Crosby

LA Kings won in 2014, 2012
11th Overall in 2005: Anze Kopitar
2nd Overall in 2008: Drew Doughty

Chicago Blackhawks 2015, 2013, 2010
3rd Overall in 2006: Jonathan Toews
1st Overall in 2007: Patrick Kane

Chicago is the only team that started winning when their core players were on their ELCs, and it was in the final year of their ELCs.

Generally, it takes a couple of years of drafting at or near the top to amass the top tier skill required to win (notice how the top-end picks are generally selected in a tight grouping) - but after you assemble that team, it usually takes 4-10 years before you reach the Championship level.