[PGT] Sens 6 Flames 1

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by RoadGame

Who.... are you?

Ever since two or three blowout losses ago when you and timbit were wading into the PGT responding to some frustrated and impassioned fans and the comment "do you even know who you're saying that to" was made in respect of coaching critiques...

As I read the cut & thrust of GTs, PGTs and Ward threads I can't help but get a serious King-Abdullah-II-going-undercover-in-public vibe from you two.

Sorry but...what?

Me? Been a fan since April 80 when NS announced a team was coming to Calgary...Oct.5 was in the Corral for game 1.

And as for timbit...he can answer for himself but suffice to say I think he knows a hundred times more about coaching in the NHL than most and a thousand times more than I, and the general population does.

No idea who King Abdullah is...but ....ok?

Who are you?

[DeluxeMoustache]

I just had to hop in the car. Heard the tail end of some guy named Mike.

He seemed to be pretty on the ball.

I assumed that overtime would be all kinds of crazy

[RoadGame]

Originally Posted by zamler

I'm going to need someone to explain that reference.

https://www.nytimes.com/1999/08/09/w...incognito.html published 1999

https://www.albawaba.com/editors-cho...not-first-time published 2019

[Igottago]

Originally Posted by N-E-B

My personal take is this: it’s so pointless arguing with people who hate Ward. They always come at you with “we haven’t hired an experienced coach yet”. It’s literally impossible to argue against it. There’s no way to disprove it. And maybe they’re right, but I think that argument gives the players a free pass.

What we DO have is four coaches with relatively the same core and the same results and the same problems. So while we haven’t hired an experienced coach I don’t have much faith that if we did much would change.

Do I think Ward is a good coach? No. But it’s absolutely exhausting blaming the coach time and time again. At some point it’s not the coach anymore. I think it’s a lazy excuse and a lazy argument that lets the players off the hook.

I think the coaching is an issue, but I think the core needs to be changed first. Coaching and management share some of the blame, but it’s not equal. It’s mostly on the players in my opinion.

Its absolutely true. But it doesn't give the players a free pass. I'm one of the people that has wanted an experienced winning coach for about 5 years. I also wanted changes to the core after the Colorado playoff loss. Its really not that complicated.

[Chonger]

If Edmonton is no good. And Ottawa beats you. Are you the worst team in the league?

I eat bear #### in the woods?

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[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by zamler

You want a new core under Ward? Damn.

That’s not what he said

[N-E-B]

Originally Posted by zamler

You want a new core under Ward? Damn.

Point to where I said that.

I said the core needs to changed first. I meant that in the sense that it’s the top priority and I don’t think changing the coach will do anything without a change to the core.

I said I don’t think Ward is a good coach multiple times.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by Winsor_Pilates

Most posters fit these 3 groups.

But there's people that won't acknowledge the coach is part of the problem at all , so they won't fit the 3 groups you just mentioned.

I'd call that supporters.

Who is that?

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Winsor_Pilates

Most posters fit these 3 groups.

But there's people that won't acknowledge the coach is part of the problem at all , so they won't fit the 3 groups you just mentioned.

I'd call that supporters.

I think there are few, if any, of those
I think the vast majority believe it’s both just disagree on the relative contribution
But the issue is people are arguing on the extremes
A supporter to me is someone who would argue that Ward is a good coach
Not sure if any of those exist

[flames_fan_down_under]

I haven't waded through this thread but blaming the core and saying the coach is culpable are not mutually exclusive.

It is possible for it to be both.

However we have seen this core put up pedestrian numbers under so many coaches now. Why would a new coach bring any real significant change? The key word being significant, there might be a small spike in performance but overall the results will be middling still.

Edit: And i say this as a DIE HARD GEOFF WARD FAN!!! WARDSY 4 LYFE!

[zamler]

Originally Posted by N-E-B

Point to where I said that.

I said the core needs to changed first. I meant that in the sense that it’s the top priority and I don’t think changing the coach will do anything without a change to the core.

I said I don’t think Ward is a good coach multiple times.

You said the core needs to be changed first so I assumed that meant Ward would be coaching them for at least some period of time.

[Mass_nerder]

Originally Posted by Chonger

If Edmonton is no good. And Ottawa beats you. Are you the worst team in the league?

I eat bear #### in the woods?

Sent from my SM-G930W8 using Tapatalk

I don't know if it's funnier to think of this as an autocorrect, or if that's a new spin on the old classic, but either way, fantastics post.

[Chonger]

Gio can barely handle hanging in there against NHL players and we still got him as captain and 1st pairing minutes? Who runs this insane asylum?

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[GlassJaw]

This is a team that just doesn't like each other. Watching the Leafs the other day something was said in the broadcast along the lines of - these guys want to win for each other- and I think that is where our problem lies. They don't want to play hard for each and play together even though they may not like each other. I cook for a living and whether I like all the guys in the kitchen we have to work together to get the job done. Lot's of jobs are like this. These guys aren't doing the job. Don't blame the boss if these guys can't bury their $hit and get the job done. I don't think Ward has been doing a perfect job but this team is too good to be the bad. When we win it's boring to watch. So be it. Lock it down and win like you have to in the playoffs. I will continue to watch if they win even if it's the most boring product possible.

[PaperBagger'14]

Originally Posted by transplant99

"Its the coaches fault"

"no it isnt...its the same players doing the same thing for the 6th year more or less under yet another guy"

"Apologistic Ward supporting pinko commie bastard......one more coach will make a difference and your crazy if you think otherwise"

CP discourse in a shortened version.

The Flames, with a similar core, were the 2nd best team in the regular season recently. Yes, the playoffs ended badly that year, but that doesn't excuse this embarrassing regular season. There has only been 1 major change to the core since they were tops in the west, and thats the coach.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

Okay even if this is true then why do these so called non supporters seem to defend him and say changing the coach isn’t part of the solution.

Because they want to see a group of players, that now has an established history of not succeeding held accountable.
At least that's my answer.
There's not a single truth here. Just different views. But people are so wound up that they aren't taking the time to read or understand different perspectives.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by PaperBagger'14

The Flames, with a similar core, were the 2nd best team in the regular season recently. Yes, the playoffs ended badly that year, but that doesn't excuse this embarrassing regular season. There has only been 1 major change to the core since they were tops in the west, and thats the coach.

The team was .500 with Bill Peters and playing poorly until he was fired for being a racist POS.
And I think the second half of the first season, the warts were starting to show.

[Infinit47]

Originally Posted by N-E-B

Point to where I said that.

I said the core needs to changed first. I meant that in the sense that it’s the top priority and I don’t think changing the coach will do anything without a change to the core.

I said I don’t think Ward is a good coach multiple times.

Is there a downside to trying an experienced coach? At worst you will get an experienced person to provide another perspective on this team.

I also think Ward is the worst of all the recent coaches we've had, and that Gulutzan or Hartley would get more out of the current roster.

I'd much rather go through a rebuild with an experienced coach than not.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by N-E-B

Point to where I said that.

I said the core needs to changed first. I meant that in the sense that it’s the top priority and I don’t think changing the coach will do anything without a change to the core.

I said I don’t think Ward is a good coach multiple times.

You could put Dale Earnhardt Sr. in his prime behind the wheel of a Chevy Vega.

He could navigate ovals and road courses better than most available drivers in that Chevy Vega and maybe even be the best ever at doing so.

In the end though?

It's still a Chevy Vega.

[1qqaaz]

Originally Posted by Infinit47

Is there a downside to trying an experienced coach? At worst you will get an experienced person to provide another perspective on this team.

I also think Ward is the worst of all the recent coaches we've had, and that Gulutzan or Hartley would get more out of the current roster.

I'd much rather go through a rebuild with an experienced coach than not.

The downside is that Treliving doesn't deserve another coaching hire.

If the Flames hire a coach and miss the the playoffs, Treliving will likely be fired. The recently hired coach will then be a sitting duck with a new GM.