[News] UPD: Coyotes renounce the rights to draft pick Mitchell Miller

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Outside of the issue that saw him in court, though, there is a... what... 9 year period between ages 8 and 16 where he physically abused, mentally abused or intimidated, and was outwardly racist to his victim?

And he stopped at 16 because he moved for hockey.

[Gaskal]

Originally Posted by Cecil Terwilliger

3/11 is half? And why do you have such a problem with the truth? Is it because it distorts your warped view?

These below comments of yours that are founded upon the premise of time passage, in light of recent information from Mrs. Meyer-Crothers, no longer carry any weight whatsoever.

What's this 'truth' you seem so eager to accuse others of violating? Why are you ignoring presented evidence of the contrary just to be confrontational?

I like how instead of compassion for the victim the focus is on vengeance against the bully with a complete disregard for what has occurred during the last 4 years.

I think we need to distinguish from attacking things a 14 year old did and the person he is now.

What he did was terrible, that does not automatically make him a terrible person now. He may have grown and learned from this.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

And I've rooted against someone making the NHL for far less, we all have.

Sports hate and real hate are different and have different thresholds. Cheering against someone because he plays for the oilers or spurned your team is an entirely different type of hate and certainly has a lower threshold.

This is real hate and the threshold is higher. I’m not saying it isn’t met here but the argument that You cheer against players all the time isn’t a justification to cheer against this one.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

As far as whether he apologizes now, I don't entirely care about it. Not because he doesn't deserve a second chance, but because my opinion rests on his ability to make amends and be forgiven by his victim, not solely on an apology. If Isaiah forgives him, why shouldn't we? And given that Isaiah forgave his other abuser, I don't see that as being a stretch.

Right, so the person who gets to determine if he's suffered adequately for the wrong he committed is the victim of that wrong. It's an interesting way of doing things, certainly. Our justice system doesn't put the onus on the victim to determine when the perpetrator has been adequately punished, and there's a reason for that, but some people think that should play more of a role. I'm not really sold, because restorative justice models seem a bit utopian to me.

And if he doesn't, the question to me isn't "should he have an NHL career" because who am I to say so? But I know for me, circumstances being what they are, I wouldn't have drafted him, and as a person without that power, I'll simply root against him making the NHL.

That seems pretty reasonable to me. My question was more about whether he should actually be prevented from doing so. Your response seems to be "no, he shouldn't be prevented from making it, I'll just personally hope he doesn't". Fair enough.

There's certainly a lot of middle ground between "clean slate" and "never again shall he shoot a puck". Most of that middle ground takes the form of "he can earn a second chance, so long as X".

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by sureLoss

Nah, the reason the Coyotes decided to draft him is pretty clear. They had at one point put him on their do not draft list but after the league took away their draft picks for violating combine policy, he became an option again. Someone in the club decided that the hockey upside was worth it at that point.

I wonder if the Coyotes saved another team from this embarrassment. Wasn't it earlier in this thread that someone reported about 1/3 of teams had him on their do not draft list. Which implies 20 teams might have considered drafting him with a later pick.

Given their experience with Peters, I'll bet Treliving wanted no part of him.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

Right, so the person who gets to determine if he's suffered adequately for the wrong he committed is the victim of that wrong. It's an interesting way of doing things, certainly. Our justice system doesn't put the onus on the victim to determine when the perpetrator has been adequately punished, and there's a reason for that, but some people think that should play more of a role. I'm not really sold, because restorative justice models seem a bit utopian to me.

Not really, my comment wasn't about justice, punishment, or suffering.

Simply that, as a spectator who knows nobody personally in this situation, and has nothing more to go on than what we know, which is limited, and given that this does not appear to be a victim incapable of forgiveness (which gives weight to Isaiah's character here), I side with the victim.

That's all. I leave it up to the actual courts to pick the legal punishment appropriate of the crime, I leave it to the NHL teams to decide the opportunities he's granted, and I leave it to the University to decide the state of his scholarship, not Isaiah, and certainly not me. But in terms of judgement of character, which has as little or as much weight as you want to give it (and in terms of mine as a random spectator who will never meet this person, very little), I simply side with the victim, and will root against Miller until the point he's given me sufficient reason to think otherwise.

At the end of the day, people talk about the mob, "internet justice" all that stuff. But as an individual, I have every right to take what I know and form an opinion on someone. I'm not asking that opinion to be acted on and I'm not asking that opinion be above disagreement. And I truly do not care if that opinion is similar to the "mob" or "internet justice" or whatever. It's my own. But I do ask that it not be diminished and disregarded as such.

[Aarongavey]

The NHL just got through a season where the seedy underbelly of racism in the sport was exposed multiple times. They start the new season by having a team draft a guy who uses the N word in the 21st century, along with a decade of bullying a special needs African American. The new year is off to a roaring start from a branding perspective for the league.

[Doctorfever]

Originally Posted by CalgaryFan1988

Our prime minister does blackface 3 times, one of the times while he has a banana in his pants and a picture of a monkey on his shirt. All this while he was in his 30's.

Internet verdict? It's ok, because he said sorry.


The internet is a fickle bitch.

I am sure some people who have the pitchforks out for something a teenager did actually voted FOR the Trudeau. Kinda hypocritical in my opinion.

I guess the PM did apologize, so there is that. But he was also 30 years old. Not 14 or 16.

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

Right, so the person who gets to determine if he's suffered adequately for the wrong he committed is the victim of that wrong. It's an interesting way of doing things, certainly. Our justice system doesn't put the onus on the victim to determine when the perpetrator has been adequately punished, and there's a reason for that, but some people think that should play more of a role. I'm not really sold, because restorative justice models seem a bit utopian to me.

Sort of a little. Not when they have been adequately punished but by law every victim in Canada has a right to present their impact statement and the court must take it into account for sentencing considerations. At least that's what's written down. Whether the impact statements do impact sentencing probably depends on the judge I presume.

And usually the most apparent ones where the victims and/or their impact statements do impact sentencing are usually for the opposite reason, i.e. the family forgiving the offender who killed their loved one in a drunk driving accident and getting a more lenient sentence.

I do agree where you're coming from because if someone stole a bike and the victim wanted his eyes torn out for it, that's obviously something the justice system can't accommodate. So we can't have maniacs deciding the sentencing, and it's also unfair to the 'rational' victims to put the burden on them. But it's not like there's no say at all.

And of course this isn't the justice system and the NHL isn't a right. If the NHL or the Coyotes decide that Miller isn't good for business, that's up to them.

But he biggest things, in my opinion, working against Miller is that the victim forgave the one bully. They went through hell but were still able to forgive Hunter (who I assume did not have a 9 year pattern of bullying like Miller but still). If they came out and just said both boys deserve to rot in hell during their impact statement, meh not much forgiveness up for grabs, but they took an opportunity to praise Hunter for his remorse and clearly forgave him. Forgiveness was possible, at least at one point.

Second, and maybe more important, is that Miller, in my opinion, was very misleading with his statement to the NHL teams. Calling his victim a friend, seemingly insinuating everything was in the past, a single action, his remorse was unquestionably, forgiveness was found, that's what he was telling the NHL teams in so many words. He wanted to act like that was the case, well now he needs to go and receive this redemption he was so keen to tell the NHL teams about.

[Cecil Terwilliger]

Originally Posted by Gaskal

These below comments of yours that are founded upon the premise of time passage, in light of recent information from Mrs. Meyer-Crothers, no longer carry any weight whatsoever.

What's this 'truth' you seem so eager to accuse others of violating? Why are you ignoring presented evidence of the contrary just to be confrontational?

It’s confrontational to have a different opinion now?

None of this addresses anything in my posts. It seems like you’re the one looking for a confrontation.

[Gaskal]

Originally Posted by Cecil Terwilliger

It’s confrontational to have a different opinion now?

Your first post after Mrs. Meyer-Crother's letter was revealed (rendering your original assertion irrelevant) was to accuse someone of lying.

What lies are being spread?

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

Miller, in my opinion, was very misleading with his statement to the NHL teams. Calling his victim a friend, seemingly insinuating everything was in the past, a single action, his remorse was unquestionably, forgiveness was found, that's what he was telling the NHL teams in so many words.

That's the real tell, I agree. If you're sorry for what you did, apologize to the person you harmed. If you're only sorry you got caught, go and suck up to the people with the power to punish you. This kid, or his representatives, chose the latter.

It's a shame the Coyotes fell for it, but I can sort of understand why. They've been so badly mismanaged for so long, their only feasible strategy is to bet on long shots and pray for several of them to pay off. Best case, they could be hoping tge player gets it together and are betting a fourth-round pick on that. Worst case, they are willing to make a deal with the devil if it might win them a few extra hockey games. Time will tell which they have in mind.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

How people feel emotionally about an individual case shouldn't have any bearing on the application of youth justice provisions. There's a publication ban on the identity of the girl who murdered her parents and brother in Lethbridge. You don't have to be soft on family-murder to understand and accept, however reluctantly, why those provisions are in place.

Didn't she attend while her boyfriend murdered them? I feel like I remember that case differently. Unless that's not the one I'm thinking of.

[AustinL_NHL]

Honestly haven't been following this thread as much as HFBoards, although from what I've read, there doesn't seem to be nearly as much support for Miller as some are showing on HFBoards.

What a lot of people somehow keep getting wrong is they keep referring to what Mitchell did as "bullying".

What Mitchell did was:

- Go on about this for 6+ years
- Repeatedly physically and mentally abuse the kid
- Use repeated racist slurs
- Literally came up with a plan to pretend to be his friend so that he would eat candy that he PISSED ON and wiped in a URINAL
- BASHED his head against a WALL
- Showed ZERO remorse in court, while the other kid accused broke down in tears apologizing to the kid
- Proceeded to TAUNT the kid and his family two years later at the age of 16.
- NEVER apologized in person (not referring to you, but f*** anyone who things the court-mandated written apology letter - who the family says they never even received - counts).
- Apologized to all NHL teams to save face, showing much more remorse to them than he ever did to the kid

This isn't a bullying case.

This is a flat out assault case by a psychopathic, remorseless kid who made it his #1 mission to torment a poor, colored, disabled kid and make his life a living hell.

I have NEVER seen or heard about anywhere NEAR this level of "bullying" in my areas. Anyone who thinks this is just a typical bullying case that happens all the time either grew up in a really ####ty place, or was a really, really ####ty person themselves.

Some of the posts trying to stick up for Mitchell and say he deserves a chance to redeem himself are clearly missing the fact that he's had 4(!!) years to redeem himself, yet he decided to taunt the family just two years later at the age of 16(!!).

The fact that some people here (very few, but some) think that Mitchell completing his COURT-MANDATED tasks are acceptable and clear his slate is past the point of laughable and well into the very concerning category.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by jayswin

Didn't she attend while her boyfriend murdered them? I feel like I remember that case differently. Unless that's not the one I'm thinking of.

She didn’t do the actual killing, but she was convicted of murder.

[Doctorfever]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

She didn’t do the actual killing, but she was convicted of murder.

I believe she killed her brother while her boyfriend killed the parents.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by Doctorfever

I believe she killed her brother while her boyfriend killed the parents.

Was that it? I'll have to find that case again, I seem to recall it was a big deal that she was charged but didn't actually do anything other than go to the house with her boyfriend.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by AustinL_NHL

Honestly haven't been following this thread as much as HFBoards, although from what I've read, there doesn't seem to be nearly as much support for Miller as some are showing on HFBoards.

What a lot of people somehow keep getting wrong is they keep referring to what Mitchell did as "bullying".

What Mitchell did was:

- Go on about this for 6+ years
- Repeatedly physically and mentally abuse the kid
- Use repeated racist slurs
- Literally came up with a plan to pretend to be his friend so that he would eat candy that he PISSED ON and wiped in a URINAL
- BASHED his head against a WALL
- Showed ZERO remorse in court, while the other kid accused broke down in tears apologizing to the kid
- Proceeded to TAUNT the kid and his family two years later at the age of 16.
- NEVER apologized in person (not referring to you, but f*** anyone who things the court-mandated written apology letter - who the family says they never even received - counts).
- Apologized to all NHL teams to save face, showing much more remorse to them than he ever did to the kid

This isn't a bullying case.

This is a flat out assault case by a psychopathic, remorseless kid who made it his #1 mission to torment a poor, colored, disabled kid and make his life a living hell.

I have NEVER seen or heard about anywhere NEAR this level of "bullying" in my areas. Anyone who thinks this is just a typical bullying case that happens all the time either grew up in a really ####ty place, or was a really, really ####ty person themselves.

Some of the posts trying to stick up for Mitchell and say he deserves a chance to redeem himself are clearly missing the fact that he's had 4(!!) years to redeem himself, yet he decided to taunt the family just two years later at the age of 16(!!).

The fact that some people here (very few, but some) think that Mitchell completing his COURT-MANDATED tasks are acceptable and clear his slate is past the point of laughable and well into the very concerning category.

When I was in school we had some major bullying issues going on that took quite some work to sort out and deal with. We had kids switching schools, quitting school, constant fighting, depression, kids getting kicked out of school, entire families moving, and multiple mandatory sit down sessions with all kinds of counselors, experts, teachers, district supervisors, parents, etc for about 3 years until it got better.

Just 3 horrible years for many kids.

None of the stuff that happened came close to what this kid did.

NONE OF IT.

I think everyone should take a second and sit down to think about exactly what this kid did. Put yourself in the shoes of that poor kid getting bullied. Your entire childhood got ruined by him. Try to imagine for a second what that is like.

Now quit imagining, because there is no way in hell anyone can understand this level of torment. I'm all for repentance and forgiveness. But I see no remorse here, and with this level of abuse, after thinking about it or a few days I think he should be barred from playing in the NHL for life.

Given the abuse issues (hazing) going on throughout minor hockey, a problem that is being pushed under the rug, I cannot see how the NHL can allow this kid to play in their league. They are basically saying it is okay to do what he did, as long as you write court mandated letters and tell all the teams to overlook your transgressions when they are thinking about drafting you.

Nothing this kid did indicates any kind of remorse, and the fact that we are excusing him means we consider him more of a victim than the poor kid he tormented for many years.

[Strange Brew]

The kids letter to the teams did have a few tells. “My friend”, and then he referenced the other people involved, trying to spread the blame. Not to mention the humility he caused.

I suspect an interview with this kid would be extremely eye opening.

[Strange Brew]

Dp