[News] With the 214th OA pick, the Flames select G Dustin Wolf

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by dobbles

...What I really think needs to be the discussion is why Vladar continues to get so many more starts and puts up the same mediocre numbers?

"Mediocre numbers"?

While Markstrom was out between 3–17 December, Vladar played four games, and posted 0.813, 0.842, 0.938, 0.939 against some very tough competition. In that same time, Wolf posted 0.846, 0.933, 0.897, 0.872, also in some tough games. I just don't see what you are seeing. Both Wolf and Vladar have performed very similarly this season, but I would give the more recent performance-edge to Vladar, who has posted a 0.905 in his last five.

[Enoch Root]

Wolf is being handled EXACTLY as he should be - he's gotten 5 starts already this year, or 15% of the starts. He has played well, as well as could be expected, but he has not come in and stolen the net from the other two (nor should we have expected him to). He is progressing, and they aren't rushing him.

Meanwhile, the Flames have given Vladar 11 starts, which is also what they should be doing - in order to figure out exactly what he is. And Vladar has gotten steadily better throughout the season, as his time in net has increased.

Now, Markstrom is playing great, and Vladar's last couple of games have also been really good. That is giving the team options - now they know that they can trade one of them, and still be in good shape. This is literally what some of us said needed to happen this year, and it HAS been happening, and things are proceeding perfectly, and still some people think it's a mess.

I just don't get some people.

[getbak]

I fully expect to see one of the goalies traded early in the new year.

With the way Markstrom has been playing recently, I think it could even be him -- and a team might be willing to take his full salary too. If they retain $2 million, I think there would be a lot of interest in Markstrom at $4 million.

[Inferno]

Originally Posted by getbak

With the way Markstrom has been playing recently, I think it could even be him -- and a team might be willing to take his full salary too. If they retain $2 million, I think there would be a lot of interest in Markstrom at $4 million.

It depends on the direction of the team.

If Conroy tells him he wants to get younger but still be competitive I think Markstrom wants to stay. If he tells him he has no plans of being competitive for a few seasons I think Markstrom would be open to waiving to the right team.

I think younger but still competitive is the more likely scenario.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by getbak

I fully expect to see one of the goalies traded early in the new year.

With the way Markstrom has been playing recently, I think it could even be him -- and a team might be willing to take his full salary too. If they retain $2 million, I think there would be a lot of interest in Markstrom at $4 million.

I don't think there's any question that the plan is to trade one of them, it's just a question of timing and price. And I agree that it probably happens this year.

And I think there is a good chance that one team steps up and pays what Markstrom is worth - and at $4M, he is worth quite a bit to a contending team, as he has another 2 years secured at that price.

[The Fonz]

Nvm

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by The Fonz

Wolf is on track for about 10 NHL and 35 AHL starts this season.

What would have been “perfect” in terms of development for Wolf this year? 20 NHL/20 AHL?

Seems like splitting hairs. And depending on what happens in the new year, he might even hit these numbers.

If one of the other guys is traded (pretty decent chance), he will almost certainly hit that target.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Wolf is being handled EXACTLY as he should be - he's gotten 5 starts already this year, or 15% of the starts. He has played well, as well as could be expected, but he has not come in and stolen the net from the other two (nor should we have expected him to). He is progressing, and they aren't rushing him.

Meanwhile, the Flames have given Vladar 11 starts, which is also what they should be doing - in order to figure out exactly what he is. And Vladar has gotten steadily better throughout the season, as his time in net has increased.

Now, Markstrom is playing great, and Vladar's last couple of games have also been really good. That is giving the team options - now they know that they can trade one of them, and still be in good shape. This is literally what some of us said needed to happen this year, and it HAS been happening, and things are proceeding perfectly, and still some people think it's a mess.

I just don't get some people.

This, plus Markstrom had a broken finger and that was actually a very good time to throw Vladar into the deep end so to speak.

[The Fonz]

Beginning to think we won't see a Markstrom trade (unless a team gets desperate and overpays), and the Flames will just ride out his contract.

Might be more likely now that Vladar just spends the final year of his deal in the AHL. You compare their numbers, and Vladar has shown that he just isn't good enough, and not improving. Over the last 3 seasons:

Markstrom - 143GP - .907sv%
Vladar - 61GP - .898sv%

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by Inferno

It depends on the direction of the team.

If Conroy tells him he wants to get younger but still be competitive I think Markstrom wants to stay. If he tells him he has no plans of being competitive for a few seasons I think Markstrom would be open to waiving to the right team.

I think younger but still competitive is the more likely scenario.

You can’t get younger and be more competitive at the same time. That’s not how it works.

[Inferno]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

You can’t get younger and be more competitive at the same time. That’s not how it works.

You can still be competitive if you get younger players who are NHL ready rather than just for draft picks or prospects who may or may not make the NHL.

[CSharp]

Still think Vladar/Wolf tandem for at least 1+ years is better than a Markstrom/Wolf tandem for another 2 years. I really want to see if Vladar can actually take the reigns to become a #1 goalie rather than being a backup. One year to show it during a rebuild is better than 2 years wasted with a high cap goalie and the team is gonna be mediocre trying to make the playoffs. At least with Vladar, if it doesn't work out, Wolf will see more action to earn his spot. With Markstrom for another 2 years, Wolf will be mostly sitting on the bench like Vladar's doing for the past several years. At least with Markstrom gone, it'll be a start of a youth movement - 2 years sooner the better.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by Inferno

You can still be competitive if you get younger players who are NHL ready rather than just for draft picks or prospects who may or may not make the NHL.

You cannot be competitive without franchise players, and this team has none.

Any prospect who’s near-ready that another team would trade us still isn’t the type of needle-mover they’d need to be better than a bottom-10 roster.

Look at this post-deadline lineup:

Huberdeau-Schwindt (not him, but this what “someone who’s close” looks like)-Sharangovich
Zary-Kadri-Pospisil
Coleman-Backlund-Mangiapane
Dube-Ruszicka-Greer

Andersson-Weegar
Gilbert-DeSimone
Oesterle-Solovyov

Markstrom (?)
Vladar
Wolf

How are you going to make that ‘more competitive’?

The only NHL bodies they need to be returning are cap dumps.

[Inferno]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

You cannot be competitive without franchise players, and this team has none.

Any prospect who’s near-ready that another team would trade us still isn’t the type of needle-mover they’d need to be better than a bottom-10 roster.

Look at this post-deadline lineup:

Huberdeau-Schwindt (not him, but this what “someone who’s close” looks like)-Sharangovich
Zary-Kadri-Pospisil
Coleman-Backlund-Mangiapane
Dube-Ruszicka-Greer

Andersson-Weegar
Gilbert-DeSimone
Oesterle-Solovyov

Markstrom (?)
Vladar
Wolf

How are you going to make that ‘more competitive’?

The only NHL bodies they need to be returning are cap dumps.

I never said 'more'. That's you. By competitive I mean trying to compete and win rather than just play out the season and whatever happens is what happens.

The point I was making is that if Conroy decides to rebuild I think Markstrom is open to waiving. Sec214's comments about what he's heard basically confirms this.

But he also said that the team is not just going to trade him to trade him and that it would have to be a deal that they can't refuse so Vladar is more likely to get moved.

That leads me to believe Conroy wants to get younger but wants the team to be competitive.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by Inferno

I never said 'more'. That's you. By competitive I mean trying to compete and win rather than just play out the season and whatever happens is what happens.

The point I was making is that if Conroy decides to rebuild I think Markstrom is open to waiving. Sec214's comments about what he's heard basically confirms this.

But he also said that the team is not just going to trade him to trade him and that it would have to be a deal that they can't refuse so Vladar is more likely to get moved.

That leads me to believe Conroy wants to get younger but wants the team to be competitive.

I think it’s better for Wolf to have Markstrom around - nobody plays 65 games anymore, and having someone who could reliably play 40 is helpful for a young goalie who’s going to have ups and downs.

But a good offer is a good offer, and $6M in cap room is hard to argue.

Good goaltending isn’t going to keep them out of the bottom ten anyway, not with 35 year old Kadri and 36 year old Backlund as the top 2 centres.

[Spurs]

Originally Posted by Inferno

You can still be competitive if you get younger players who are NHL ready rather than just for draft picks or prospects who may or may not make the NHL.

What do you, or maybe in this case what do you think Conroy/Markstrom, consider competitive?

Are the Flames currently competitive being 4th from the bottom in the WC but maybe able to convince themselves they aren’t too many points back?

If the standard of being competitive is pretty low I agree we can get younger and maintain this. If we are talking about anything more than being close but not actually in it I don’t think we get younger and actually be competitive.

[GreenLantern2814]

I think “competitive” is interchangeable with “interesting”.

Lose a bunch of games in regulation, but do it with some panache.

[Inferno]

Originally Posted by Spurs

What do you, or maybe in this case what do you think Conroy/Markstrom, consider competitive?

Not an easy win. A team who battles for a playoff spot regardless of whether it's 1 or 8 every year. "Competitive" doesn't have to mean the team is a Cup contender.

Teams like Chicago and San Jose are teams I wouldn't call competitive. They might try hard every game but you should still be able to beat them every time you play them.

[Spurs]

Originally Posted by Inferno

Not an easy win. A team who battles for a playoff spot regardless of whether it's 1 or 8 every year. "Competitive" doesn't have to mean the team is a Cup contender.

Teams like Chicago and San Jose are teams I wouldn't call competitive. They might try hard every game but you should still be able to beat them every time you play them.

Fair enough if the bar is that low then I think we can reach that. I would think you need an actual chance to make the play-offs, and really have a chance to win a play-off round. I don't think we have that now and don't think we have that going forward.

Its easy for me to say as a fan not a player but I don't get how any player can look at this current team and look at the future and think this is a team that will be competitive. If they value family and stability of where they live over that fair enough but they can't pretend that they are staying for hockey reasons in my view.

[Inferno]

Originally Posted by Spurs

but I don't get how any player can look at this current team and look at the future and think this is a team that will be competitive.

Players, coaches, and GMs are a lot more level headed than fans when it comes to viewing their team.

We can get overemotional and make things look more worse than they actually are. I remember when they choked against Colorado I wanted both Gaudreau and Monahan gone.