Van hits multiple pedestrians in Toronto

[MarchHare]

Sure, whenever there's a mass killing it's perfectly reasonable to wonder if it was committed by Islamic terrorists. When I heard the news, I myself wondered if ISIS was behind this or if it was another terrorist group or simply a deranged individual with no link to organized terrorism.

What's not reasonable, though, is to prematurely assume the attack definitely was committed by Islamic terrorists and then make comments like "I bet I can guess this guy's religion" or "the religion of peace strikes again" or similar, fanning the flames of hatred and inciting anti-Muslim bigotry that could lead to reprisals against innocents.

[meritmat]

Originally Posted by transplant99

AFAIK...Neo nazis have driven a car into a crowd ....once. Ever. During neonazi demonstrations with thousnads of opponents around them.

Had they been demonstrating in Toronto yesterday with thousands of counter-protestors there against them...then yes that too would be a reasonable assumption.

However, we have seen, literally, dozens of these types of attacks, usually with a van IIRC, in the middle of large metropolitan cities worldwide, unprovoked and out of the blue in random busy street...and almost unanimously it was ISIS/Radical Muslim group related.

Yes or no? This was nothing new unfortunately and almost ALWAYS it comes down to one very effed up group. That fact simply cannot be ignored.

Had this been a random mass shooting somewhere in the states, i doubt many would immediately go to ISIS as a culprit, as this type of attack is usually young white guy.

So I am not sure why you cant see how the actual type of event has a bearing on where someone might start to go to in wondering who did it.

This is not hard. In fact it is in their marching orders from the leadership.

On top of that our dip#### leader has welcomed back returning ISIS fighters. After all he figures he can reform them.


http://freebeacon.com/national-secur...adicalization/

Very sad

[Wormius]

Originally Posted by meritmat

On top of that our dip#### leader has welcomed back returning ISIS fighters. After all he figures he can reform them.


http://freebeacon.com/national-secur...adicalization/

Very sad

How is this is relevant, Mr. Trump?

[GGG]

Originally Posted by transplant99

All ISIS are Muslim, all Muslim are not ISIS.

So if you assume ISIS was behind the attack yesterday (again much like we have seen them do dozens of times world wide) you are not assuming all muslims were behind the attack, only that the group of muslims that are indeed ISIS were.

This is nothing close to "hate filled bigotry".

Saying I bet I know the religion of this guy before there is any indication that it is ISIS is very much hate filled bigotry.

[Cecil Terwilliger]

Originally Posted by meritmat

On top of that our dip#### leader has welcomed back returning ISIS fighters. After all he figures he can reform them.


http://freebeacon.com/national-secur...adicalization/

Very sad

Sweet merciful crap, did you seriously just link that site as a legitimate news source?

[GGG]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

C'mon GGG. Was it hasty to assume the attack was by an ISIS zealot or some other radicalized Muslim? Yes. Was it hate filled bigotry to think that was a likely identity of the attacker? Not in world where almost all of the previous mass-murders using that method have been carried out by Islamic radicals.

If the person said I think it was Isis that isn't spreading hate.

If you blame the religion as that post did sorry that's spreading hate. I mean after the mosque shooting everyone immediately assumes the Muslim guy chasing the shooter was the perpetrator because he was brown. What do you call that other than racism.

Assuming there perpetrator is Muslim and blaming specifically the religion not the group is spreading hate.

Do you know the religion of the majority of Isis' victims? It's the same Muslim religion that was vilified in that post. So yes that post was hate filled bigotry.

[meritmat]

Originally Posted by Cecil Terwilliger

Sweet merciful crap, did you seriously just link that site as a legitimate news source?

Sorry it was the first one in the search

https://globalnews.ca/news/3871229/c...ustin-trudeau/

That better?

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/hami...hall-1.4481025

Or this one, not that CBC is much of a legitimate new source

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by transplant99

However, we have seen, literally, dozens of these types of attacks, usually with a van IIRC, in the middle of large metropolitan cities worldwide, unprovoked and out of the blue in random busy street...and almost unanimously it was ISIS/Radical Muslim group related

This statement is not accurate. There have been 37 vehicular attacks since 2006, many of which have been utilised in the Israel/Palestine conflict, many others have been claimed by Al-Queda, the vehicles has ranged anywhere from vans to car to construction equipment to large trucks to buses, and the targets have been a mix of busy streets, buildings, lone police offers or small groups of police officers, army personnel, etc.

So, to say that there have been literally dozens of attacks the fit very closely to this and are the fault of ISIS is, frankly, not true.

[snootchiebootchies]

CBC is now reporting that the victims ranged in age from mid-20s to 80s. So no children.

[photon]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Seriously though, how does anyone help this kind of individual? This is not a mental health issue, (though I can most certainly see where those with such issues could fall into this kind of thing fairly easily) so interventions are out.

Im not even sure how you would identify guys like this unless they are posting their picture/info with the kind of talk these cowards like to display while anonymous.

I think it is a mental health issue, depending on how you define mental health anyway. I think it is in terms of learning how to help yourself maintain the things you can for your own mental health.

Physical health has a whole spectrum ranging from serious things like cancer, disease, serious wounds, etc, stuff that needs serious intervention, to the more day to day maintenance things like brushing your teeth, exercising, and trimming your fingernails, stuff we do for ourselves.

We're taught how to do the little day to day physical health things that keep our teeth from falling out and from getting infected toenails, but we aren't really taught the little day to day things that can help maintain our mental health, at least not unless we reach a point where we specifically seek it out or we randomly interact with someone that can teach it.

I think part of the improvements could be to continue to break down the stigma around getting mental health help, and continue to educate and raise awareness about how to maintain and improve mental health so little things don't grow into gigantic things, or how to get help to get out of a viscous cycle.

But yeah as far as trying to help those that are already neck deep? That's tough. Religion works in this respect because it offers hope to someone who's really vulnerable, so maybe something like the Alpha classes, get out and "witness" to them? They gravitate towards the online communities because most of all feeling like we belong is a basic human need, so try and substitute a healthier group to belong to?

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by snootchiebootchies

CBC is now reporting that the victims ranged in age from mid-20s to 80s. So no children.

Not that I would want any victims regardless of age, but I couldn't stand the thought of children being killed.

[woob]

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by GGG

Saying I bet I know the religion of this guy before there is any indication that it is ISIS is very much hate filled bigotry.

Maybe it is, but that's hardly what i was responding too.

If you believed it was ISIS that committed this attack (which again is hardly a reach no matter how our resident SJW's want to spin it), then by default the religion is already established.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by photon

I think it is a mental health issue, depending on how you define mental health anyway. I think it is in terms of learning how to help yourself maintain the things you can for your own mental health.

Physical health has a whole spectrum ranging from serious things like cancer, disease, serious wounds, etc, stuff that needs serious intervention, to the more day to day maintenance things like brushing your teeth, exercising, and trimming your fingernails, stuff we do for ourselves.

We're taught how to do the little day to day physical health things that keep our teeth from falling out and from getting infected toenails, but we aren't really taught the little day to day things that can help maintain our mental health, at least not unless we reach a point where we specifically seek it out or we randomly interact with someone that can teach it.

I think part of the improvements could be to continue to break down the stigma around getting mental health help, and continue to educate and raise awareness about how to maintain and improve mental health so little things don't grow into gigantic things, or how to get help to get out of a viscous cycle.

But yeah as far as trying to help those that are already neck deep? That's tough. Religion works in this respect because it offers hope to someone who's really vulnerable, so maybe something like the Alpha classes, get out and "witness" to them? They gravitate towards the online communities because most of all feeling like we belong is a basic human need, so try and substitute a healthier group to belong to?

The more mental health available...the better. No question.

I just have no idea how you find these guys, reel them in enough to get them understanding how destructive their feelings and behavior are, and then into a treatment to end it.

Lets face it, all these guys that are 18 or older,(16 for that matter) made choices. They made choices to drift into something that at one time they KNOW was wrong. They can also make choices to reverse that, but again....thats on them. At some point personal responsibility has to be part of the equation.

[transplant99]

Thought this was rather poignant...

[Pointman]

FWIW, Russian media report that 90-years old lady, who is WW2 veteran and moved to Toronto from Russia was injured during this attack. She is also reported to have Canadian citizenship.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Maybe it is, but that's hardly what i was responding too.

If you believed it was ISIS that committed this attack (which again is hardly a reach no matter how our resident SJW's want to spin it), then by default the religion is already established.

Sorry I wasn't trying to call you a bigot and maybe responded to wrong comment. My issue is with the assumption a Muslim did this. Even if ISIS did this the fact that the perpetrator is Muslim is not material to cause anymore than the religion of this guy is material to him being an incel or white supremacists being Christian

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Maybe it is, but that's hardly what i was responding too.

If you believed it was ISIS that committed this attack (which again is hardly a reach no matter how our resident SJW's want to spin it), then by default the religion is already established.

Similar to what GGG said, I think the issue that a couple people brought up was based on the idea of putting the religion before the group. Saying “I bet I know the religion” is not the same as saying “I bet it was ISIS,” and is hardly different than saying “I bet I know the colour of his skin,” because you are equating the religion with the act first, instead of the group with the act.

Also, as much as it might annoy you, you should consider a less lazy term than “SJW” for those you don’t agree with. I know that I certainly start to see your side of things until you pull that out on random posters, and then it becomes a turn off. Much like seeing words like “bigot” semi-casually thrown is. We can all be a bit better, can’t we?

[RichKlit]

I think there are extreme differences between bigot and SJW. I think we can agree on that can’t we?

[CliffFletcher]

ISIS Tactics Have Spread to Other Violent Actors

...I suspect something similar has happened with these two violent incels. The dynamic is a familiar one in the age of digital community building. Once the incels griped to themselves, occasionally victimizing others, and sometimes getting over their pathology or finding a partner. Now they can come together online and find others to validate their grievances and encourage them to action. Dating is harder when you spend a lot of time being bitter online. Murder is easier when someone is whispering at you every few minutes, telling you the rest of the world deserves what it gets. These communities become, like ISIS, instruments of conscience-annihilation, and the lonely losers within them become desensitized and, ultimately, morally inverted. If there is a way to stop this process, I want to hear about it.

- the Atlantic