Francis with Kerr: Who is going?

[the2bears]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

Wouldn’t be my choice of words but the sentiment isn’t that implausible, I don’t see the big deal.

When is Ferland a noticeable player? When he is physical or when he scores. He was streaky - 2 runs where he had 8 pts in 4 and 8 pts in 6. Otherwise, meh. He had 2 G 11 A in his last 35 GP. 3 minors and one fight. That’s not what gets him noticed.

Why is it wrong for this guy to suggest he was disengaged? He was drastically underperforming. Sense of entitlement? Maybe editorializing, but the accountability doesn’t seem to be there. The coach lets him play there, and he doesn’t do the things that he should to keep him there.

I don’t think he is a top line player, rather a product of his linemates. Linemates matter. Bernie Nicholls scored 70 with Gretzky. When LA traded him he said they were stupid. Then he never hit 30 in a full season post Gretz.

It's not so much the suggestion of being disengaged, but rather the style in which that comment was delivered.

It's been a long disappointing season, and the original comment seemed to take things a little too personal with Ferland. I just get tired of comments where people can somehow judge the player's motivation through the screen and the criticism turns to insult.

Anyway, just my thoughts on it.

[ricardodw]

It would be interesting what Hamilton would bring back in a trade.

I think he will remain a Flame as there would be no king's ransom for him.

He is tied with 23 old Will Butcher in ppg. for 26 place in Defenceman scoring

Butcher 44 pts .. 23 on the pp.

Are there teams lining up to give the Devils whatever they want for the Powerplay specialist.

How much more would Hamilton bring than Sami Vatanen?

Center Adam Henrique, forward Joseph Blandisi and a third-round pick in the 2018 NHL Draft were acquired by the Anaheim Ducks in a trade with the New Jersey Devils on Thursday for defenseman Sami Vatanen and a conditional third-round draft pick.

Vataten is a better skater than Hamilton, Plays a lot harder and kills penalties. He a a proven playoff performer. Hamilton is bigger and scores more goals and has .54 ppg , nominally higher than Vataten's .49 ppg


would Henrique and a 23-year old good AHL prospect and flipping 3rd round picks be enough for Hamilton?

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by the2bears

It's not so much the suggestion of being disengaged, but rather the style in which that comment was delivered.

It's been a long disappointing season, and the original comment seemed to take things a little too personal with Ferland. I just get tired of comments where people can somehow judge the player's motivation through the screen and the criticism turns to insult.

Anyway, just my thoughts on it.

Fair. The whole team was broken and by the end, there were few guys really stepping up.

I can’t see hanging it on one or two guys. To me, the coach has to go. New set of rules and standards, I don’t think you come back from this.

[psyang]

Oddly relevant SMBC

Spoilered for size.

Spoiler!

[shutout]

MoneySword

[cannon7]

Put me in the camp who considers a Brodie+Ferland package for a legit top-line RW.

[-TC-]

It's going to have to be one of Hamilton or Brodie to bring in a top line RW..

That's fine, that's what it will take, so be it.

But that means that Andersson, Kylington, etc. will have to step up nest season. Of those, I think Andersson is ready to step forward.

I'm gonna consider the rest of the roster before I comment more.. but I do believe that there needs to be other moves beyond the obvious.

[Ryan Coke]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

I don't think his numbers accurately reflect this assessment. The knock on Ferland for the last couple years was that he is a very streaky player, and while that is still true to a degree, he was MUCH more consistent this year. Up until 10 February he had 20 goals and 34 points in 54 games, and had only one stretch early in the season in which he went more than two games without a point. There sure were not many complaints about his level of engagement for the first 2/3 of the season. Do you think his very poor final 30 games had anything to do with his own health, or that of his centreman?

Yeah, generally speaking if an individual player drops off the map in season like Ferland and Monahan did, it is almost always related to an injury they are playing through.

The team knows the details and can make that judgement, but as fans often it is easy to just blame inconsistency or lack of heart. Rarely is that accurate when a players production just collapses suddenly.

[Moneyhands23]

Originally Posted by cannon7

Put me in the camp who considers a Brodie+Ferland package for a legit top-line RW.

Who do you think we can get for that package??

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

It would be interesting what Hamilton would bring back in a trade.

I think he will remain a Flame as there would be no king's ransom for him.

He is tied with 23 old Will Butcher in ppg. for 26 place in Defenceman scoring

Butcher 44 pts .. 23 on the pp.

Are there teams lining up to give the Devils whatever they want for the Powerplay specialist.

How much more would Hamilton bring than Sami Vatanen?



Vataten is a better skater than Hamilton, Plays a lot harder and kills penalties. He a a proven playoff performer. Hamilton is bigger and scores more goals and has .54 ppg , nominally higher than Vataten's .49 ppg


would Henrique and a 23-year old good AHL prospect and flipping 3rd round picks be enough for Hamilton?

Hamilton has 4 straight seasons of over 40pts and 3 of the last 4 seasons put up elite underlying numbers playing on the top pair against top opposition

Vatanen lacks size and is older than Hamilton. Never been a top pairing Dman.

Hilarious that you continue t try and marginalize Hamilton as a PP specialist.

Can you please advise if Vatanen was top 10 in Norris votes last year? Our favorite PP specialist Dougie was 9th.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

It would be interesting what Hamilton would bring back in a trade.

I think he will remain a Flame as there would be no king's ransom for him.

He is tied with 23 old Will Butcher in ppg. for 26 place in Defenceman scoring

Butcher 44 pts .. 23 on the pp.

Are there teams lining up to give the Devils whatever they want for the Powerplay specialist.

How much more would Hamilton bring than Sami Vatanen?



Vataten is a better skater than Hamilton, Plays a lot harder and kills penalties. He a a proven playoff performer. Hamilton is bigger and scores more goals and has .54 ppg , nominally higher than Vataten's .49 ppg


would Henrique and a 23-year old good AHL prospect and flipping 3rd round picks be enough for Hamilton?

lol this is either trolling or you have no clue

no its not enough...not even close

[the2bears]

Originally Posted by dino7c

lol this is either trolling or you have no clue

no its not enough...not even close

But his post *can't* be trolling, this time. No mention of Winnipeg's comparable, and how it's so much better.

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by Moneyhands23

Who do you think we can get for that package??

Okposo Buff, Niederreiter Min Zuccarello NYR ??

[GoJetsGo]

Why does anyone respond to Ricardow?

He's an obvious troll who's not a fan of this team, and he's shown over and over again his radical opinions on things almost always fall somewhere between absolute nonsense and factually incorrect.

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by dino7c

lol this is either trolling or you have no clue

no its not enough...not even close

so you honestly think that Vatanen who has been a top 2-3 d-man on a playoff team for the last 4 years in a row is not in Hamilton's league?


So you tell the world specifically who you would expect back for Hamilton.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

so you honestly think that Vatanen who has been a top 2-3 d-man on a playoff team for the last 4 years in a row is not in Hamilton's league?


So you tell the world specifically who you would expect back for Hamilton.

YES he is not in Hamilton's league is far as value

4 goals Vs. 17
age
size

Hamilton is not moving unless a top end forward is coming back...like 80-90 point potential

[1_Flames_Fan]

Originally Posted by I_H8_Crawford

If they trade Gaudreau, it better be an AAA asset coming back. Trading pure talent for depth never works. If they trade him for a pile of "depth" assets/players I will be done with this team as it would be the 3rd time in my life where they will submarine the team with garbage for talent (Gilmour, Phaneuf trades being the other 2)

No way in hell they trade Johnny for depth assets. If it were to happen at all and its very unlikely it would be for another star player + or don't even consider the deal.

[Moneyhands23]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

Okposo Buff, Niederreiter Min Zuccarello NYR ??

Id take a pass on all 3 of those dudes.

Id try and sign Neal and then trade them for picks before i traded for those guys.

[Stay Golden]

Not singling out Ferlend as the reason the Flames failed the last two months.
As an organization is why they failed the last two months. Management, Coaching, players, Smith getting hurt.
I was just really disappointed in his last half of the season.
First half was dynamite everything the team needed and more but the second half he lost almost all of his scoring mojo and even though his production fell off significantly. It happens but Ferland could have continued to contribute physically and #79 simply did not.
Many times Johnny was crunched, roughed up etc and Ferland like many others bluntly put did not hit back.
Nightly far to often this team did not stand up for Gaudreau by way of a hit or physical force. They just yapped at the offender I thought their responses 90% of the time were pathetic.
Do I think Ferland should be dealt nope not at all he needed a coach as did many others that would hold their feet to the fire about such small details that unchecked become bigger problems.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by Stay Golden

Not singling out Ferlend as the reason the Flames failed the last two months.
I was just really disappointed in his last half of the season.
First half was dynamite everything the team needed and more but the second half he lost almost all of his scoring mojo and even though his production fell off significantly. It happens but Ferland could have continued to contribute physically and #79 simply did not.
Many times Johnny was crunched, roughed up etc and Ferland like many others bluntly put did not hit back.
Nightly far to often this team did not stand up for Gaudreau by way of a hit or physical force. They just yapped at the offender I thought their responses 90% of the time were pathetic.
Do I think Ferland should be dealt nope not all he needed a coach as did many others that would hold their feet to the fire about such small details that unchecked become bigger problems.

Ferland's fall from grace really seemed to set in while Monahan's injuries would've been piling up.

Ferland, this year, was not good a 1st line player. He was carried by his linemates, and was hugely inconsistent.

Ferly staying/going I think entirely depends on whether or not the team sees his development as complete (trade him) or if there's still room to grow (keep him).