Brexit- Update: Britain has voted to leave the EU

[Bandwagon In Flames]

Originally Posted by nik-

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/2/0260242c-3...#axzz4CVl0Wc92

Read.

Stop getting duped.

The economic claim was never valid. If you want to put more weight on sovereignty and immigration, I totally accept that. You're not going to win on economics because no one except the Brexit vote committees agree with you. That article is just literal stating the claims of the Brexiters. Repeating their claims in a Vox article isn't proof.

I saw this article earlier and can pretty much debunk every argument with basic logic.

The EU has been good for Britain

Even the article disputes this as a Correlation vs Causation type argument. Regardless, their economy and infrastructure is probably the strongest in the EU right now and there's nothing to say they can't maintain.

What trade deals would replace EU membership?

So the main argument against is that it will take time to form new trade agreements. I don't think it will take as long as people think. Being apart from the EU doesn't mean Countries will no longer want to trade with you. It means Britain can set it's own trade agreements and not be limited to the EU regulations. This could even make for more beneficial agreements for other Countries as well.

Could Britain cut migration significantly?

Britain isn't going to stop migration just because it's out of the EU. But they will have control over who gets through and how many at a time. So basically exactly like Canada except a higher likelihood of getting accepted. Migration is so rampant in the UK right now that their economy and infrastructure can't keep up. They are an island after all and there is a finite amount of space.

Do migrants reduce UK wages?

This was a very loosely based argument that doesn't sway one way or the other. Regardless of whether or not wages increase/decrease, it's causing a greater number of unemployed UK citizens.

Are EU regulations a yoke around the neck of the UK economy?

Another argument that has no substance. They say there is the option for EU countries to have less regulations, but people are still saying it's too many regulations to have to deal with.

What about the £350m a week sent to Brussels?

So they don't dispute that money is given to Brussels every week, just that the original figure left out the partial rebate that the UK receives. It's still a lot of money and nobody can say for certain that it's money well spent.

Put it all together economists. What do you get?

So they are saying one group of economists fear the long term consequences, while another group believes it can be beneficial if done correctly.

A whole lot of flimsy arguments, whereas there are several concrete arguments for leaving.

It's impossible to say what will happen which is why a lot of voters chose to leave. They want to see what happens and are willing to go back to the EU if it doesn't work. One things for sure is that the EU would be happy to have them back.

[Zulu29]

I'll be the first to admit that I don't know a great deal of the ins and outs of this Brexit, but when I hear people complain that it happened because white people who are probably racist are the ones wanting to leave, it makes me question the sensibility of the stay side.

[peter12]

Originally Posted by Zulu29

I'll be the first to admit that I don't know a great deal of the ins and outs of this Brexit, but when I hear people complain that it happened because white people who are probably racist are the ones wanting to leave, it makes me question the sensibility of the stay side.

It was these complacent, hysterical, obsolete, lazy, cruel, bigoted arguments that forced many voters over to the Leave side in the last days of the campaign.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Hmmmm... Strongly considering buying a bunch of pounds...

[Zarley]

Wow, what an incredibly foolish decision. I feel sorry for young people in the UK.

[chemgear]

Originally Posted by burn_this_city

Who knew the war in Syria and refugee crisis would cause the disintegration of the EU? Certainly the flood of undesirables had an impact on the vote.

From Leave.eu

https://www.evernote.com/shard/s1/sh...70688d584c1ae5

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by burn_this_city

Also hating other white people because they're different is still a form of prejudice.

It's weird how Brits pine for the days when they were the global invaders. I guess it sucks when a bunch of people who you feel don't belong suddenly show up. The irony.

Here's the thing. Canada and the U.S. were set up from the get-go as immigrant nations. We've certainly had our own share of nativist jingoism and resistance to newcomers. But we've pretty much agreed with the premise that the country has been built by waves of people coming from other places.

Most countries in the world were not set up as immigrant states. And nobody has ever really come out and asked the people if they want to be immigrant states. Personally, I think countries with low birth rates would be dumb not to bring in immigrants to support their economy and help pay for public services of an aging population. But I also think each country should be allowed to make that choice for themselves, and we shouldn't presume that racism is the only reason they wouldn't want an open door immigration policy.

Anyone care to guess how racially homogeneous Japan is? 98.5 per cent. Does that make them a country that should be denounced for their hatred and bigotry? Should the international community maybe step in and tell the Japanese to get their heads out of the past, get with the times, and allow mass immigration? I don't think so. Japan is undoubtedly a deeply racist culture. But it's their own choice if they want to continue on the road to demographic suicide.

[Boxman]

If I had money in the UK I might pull out too. Doesn't make it rational. I'm inclined to believe the European FTA will remain intact and in the words of Region Bannister, that is enforced by the assumption that business leaders will act in their own rational self interest. Overshadowed by discussions of racism is the fact that the UK has been the shining star of European economies, and has no good reasons to stop. If anything, this will propel them further.

[corporatejay]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

If I were a UK citizen, I would have probably voted to remain in the UK. But it's a far more nuanced issue than a lot of people want to admit. And smearing anyone you disagree with as an ignorant racist so you don't have to engage with them is a losing hand for progressives. A losing hand they seem compelled to play over and over again. It's storing up more and more resentment among the people who are struggling with globalization, and at some point the lid is going to blow right off. Actually, I think we're seeing it blow off right now.

It's bad politics forsure but's a lot closer to accurate than I think you are giving it credit for.

[corporatejay]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Here's the thing. Canada and the U.S. were set up from the get-go as immigrant nations. We've certainly had our own share of nativist jingoism and resistance to newcomers. But we've pretty much agreed with the premise that the country has been built by waves of people coming from other places.

Most countries in the world were not set up as immigrant states. And nobody has ever really come out and asked the people if they want to be immigrant states. Personally, I think countries with low birth rates would be dumb not to bring in immigrants to support their economy and help pay for public services of an aging population. But I also think each country should be allowed to make that choice for themselves, and we shouldn't presume that racism is the only reason they wouldn't want an open door immigration policy.

Anyone care to guess how racially homogeneous Japan is? 98.5 per cent. Does that make them a country that should be denounced for their hatred and bigotry? Should the international community maybe step in and tell the Japanese to get their heads out of the past, get with the times, and allow mass immigration? I don't think so. Japan is undoubtedly a deeply racist culture. But it's their own choice if they want to continue on the road to demographic suicide.

Japan didn't colonize the world, pillage its resources, and leave it to fend for itself either.

[peter12]

Originally Posted by corporatejay

Japan didn't colonize the world, pillage its resources, and leave it to fend for itself either.

No, but they also didn't export some of the best political, legal, and constitutional principles either.

[Senator Clay Davis]

Originally Posted by DiracSpike

Sure, I guess. But it's such a blanket, black and white explanation. Immigration undoubtedly played a huge part in this but I don't understand how you can say without a doubt that a lot of people are overtly racist. Is there an exit poll that made people state exactly what part of immigration concerned them? Sheer numbers? Skill level of immigrants? Language proficiency? You just don't like brown people? I'd be willing to accept the race angle if someone showed me some concrete data about it. Really hoping to see a demographic breakdown of the vote on the BBC website or somewhere.

Based off exit polling went last night, I'm not sure how reliable or trustworthy anything would be anyways. I think it's just when you look at the numbers from here, the places that have had a lot of immigration voted strongly to Remain. Places that have barely been affected by immigration voted strongly to Leave. Seems that the fear of immigration had more to do with it in some places than actual immigration

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/...P=share_btn_tw

[FlameOn]

Breakup of the UK is likely in the future.


Older generation voted for a future the younger did not want. Younger generation will have to live with the implications longest.

[Erick Estrada]

Man it's becoming way too easy and accepted to blame Caucasians for being a group of racist elitists.

[chemgear]

http://www.newyorker.com/humor/borow...ans-are-dumber

Across the United Kingdom on Friday, Britons mourned their long-cherished right to claim that Americans were significantly dumber than they are.
But, according to Alistair Dorrinson, a pub owner in North London, British voters have done irreparable damage to the “most enjoyable sport this nation has ever known: namely, treating Americans like idiots.”

In the face of this startling display of national idiocy, Dorrinson still mustered some of the resilience for which the British people are known. “This is a dark day,” he said. “But I hold out hope that, come November, Americans could become dumber than us once more.”

[Nyah]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

Hmmmm... Strongly considering buying a bunch of pounds...

I was thinking the same thing this morning regarding pound and Euros...until I checked out our dollar.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by FlameOn

Breakup of the UK is likely in the future.


Older generation voted for a future the younger did not want. Younger generation will have to live with the implications longest.

It's called a democracy. Are you suggesting the older population have their rights revoked to enable the younger generation to make all the decisions?

[peter12]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Man it's becoming way too easy and accepted to blame Caucasians for being a group of racist elitists.

Funnily enough, most of the perpetrators are white elitists.

[Swift]

ITT people who have no knowledge of UK culture discuss UK culture.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by Zulu29

I'll be the first to admit that I don't know a great deal of the ins and outs of this Brexit, but when I hear people complain that it happened because white people who are probably racist are the ones wanting to leave, it makes me question the sensibility of the stay side.

I can't find the image now, but one of the British media (the Telegraph?) had a word cloud of the most important issues for people on each side. The remain campaign was "economy". The dominating theme for leave was "immigration". It may be unfair to categorize most leave supporters as racist - overtly, at least - but the simple reality is that it is no coincidence that this happened at a time when the EU is dealing with a massive flood of 'undesirables' from brown countries.

Certainly there are many reasons intertwined with this vote - including the EU's power struggle and what-not. But everyone knows what drove this vote. Pretending otherwise is counterproductive.