Let's Talk About Kijiji

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Originally Posted by Delgar

The suggestion that doing so might constitute fraud under the criminal code, is hilarious.

Feel free to explain why it wouldn't. I'm not saying you're wrong. Maybe there's case law that clearly says that's not how you interpret that provision.

[Kjesse]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

Feel free to explain why it wouldn't. I'm not saying you're wrong. Maybe there's case law that clearly says that's not how you interpret that provision.

As per the statute you quoted, fraud is depriving someone of property. No case law needed.

Even assume the story is true (and its not), asking a higher price and posting fake ads to support it does not constitute fraud. Dishonest, probably, but not fraud. Its not really conceivable that the adjuster relied on the fake ads, but lets assume they did, even then, caveat emptor. Cars are of variable value to different people. If someone agrees to buy the car for X and there's an exchange, it doesn't matter from a criminal perspective if they paid too much. Kijiji is not a regulated market and anyone can post anything for any price. It may set a market over time but at any given instance, buyer beware, and there are over and under exaggerations in almost every ad.

Look at some dealerships they do the opposite... advertise low to get you in the door, then you can't buy the car in the ad, its "not available". That's not fraud but there's a pretty good W5 episode about it...and consumer protection legislation probably comes into play there.

Compare to a stock transaction... lets say posting sale of stock at a high price you don't own just to make your own stock look attractive... well, if someone was so silly, so be it, but at least in that example, every stock certificate is the exact same and has a market value. Posting whether you own it or not at a high price is not fraud unless you aren't able to cover your sale by actually closing the deal...which means you might be forced to buy at an even higher price. Either way you face a regulator, bad move, and lots of examples in Alberta and BC on that front. The only point being stock sales are regulated and you'd need a margin account; for cars, its the wild west and not regulated in the same manner.

[Peanut]

Originally Posted by corporatejay

I have an uppa baby vista that I'm looking to sell. Includes the "skateboard" for toddlers.

PM me if you're interested, I have no idea what my wife wants for it.

Oh we also have the peg perego car seat adapter.

It WAS the Uppa Baby Vista I was attempting to buy, too.

I was so grumpy (and so pregnant) that I just drove straight to the store and bought a new one after receiving her text. I needed that stroller and I needed it now, dammit.

[calgaryblood]

Originally Posted by Delgar

As per the statute you quoted, fraud is depriving someone of property. No case law needed.

Even assume the story is true (and its not), asking a higher price and posting fake ads to support it does not constitute fraud. Dishonest, probably, but not fraud. Its not really conceivable that the adjuster relied on the fake ads, but lets assume they did, even then, caveat emptor. Cars are of variable value to different people. If someone agrees to buy the car for X and there's an exchange, it doesn't matter from a criminal perspective if they paid too much. Kijiji is not a regulated market and anyone can post anything for any price. It may set a market over time but at any given instance, buyer beware, and there are over and under exaggerations in almost every ad.

Look at some dealerships they do the opposite... advertise low to get you in the door, then you can't buy the car in the ad, its "not available". That's not fraud but there's a pretty good W5 episode about it...and consumer protection legislation probably comes into play there.

Compare to a stock transaction... lets say posting sale of stock at a high price you don't own just to make your own stock look attractive... well, if someone was so silly, so be it, but at least in that example, every stock certificate is the exact same and has a market value. Posting whether you own it or not at a high price is not fraud unless you aren't able to cover your sale by actually closing the deal...which means you might be forced to buy at an even higher price. Either way you face a regulator, bad move, and lots of examples in Alberta and BC on that front. The only point being stock sales are regulated and you'd need a margin account; for cars, its the wild west and not regulated in the same manner.

100% a true story. Can't believe you'd call me out like that. If you're interested PM me and I'll forward you the emails between me and the adjuster and then you can apologize.

[gottabekd]

Originally Posted by Delgar

As per the statute you quoted, fraud is depriving someone of property. No case law needed.

Nitpick: Attempting to defraud is equivalent ("...whether ascertained or not...").

I certainly don't know much about the criminal code, but I am confident in the law around fraud that whether you succeed or not, it is still a crime.

Though I think the biggest Kijiji crime in this thread is assuming someone would be fine with buying 3 tires.

[Kjesse]

Originally Posted by calgaryblood

100% a true story. Can't believe you'd call me out like that. If you're interested PM me and I'll forward you the emails between me and the adjuster and then you can apologize.

I'm not here to pick a fight with you at all, in fact I forgot it was you who I think was called out in another thread today for various reasons I can't remember. I kind of chuckle now realizing it was you and the abuse you get on this forum whether deserved or not. Rest assured I did not target you because it was you.. and I don't care if you were puckluck or not. I find it interesting other posters claim you are, I don't care.

By all means post what you want to back your story up, I simply won't believe that you have an email from an adjuster which says something to the effect that, they have now reviewed kijiji postings and agree with your price, and now offer you 4000 more than before, or whatever the number was.

I maintain the story is not true. Not possible even. That's based on personal experiences with dozens of adjusters, and anecdotes from many colleagues.

[calgaryblood]

Originally Posted by Delgar

I'm not here to pick a fight with you at all, in fact I forgot it was you who I think was called out in another thread today for various reasons I can't remember. I kind of chuckle now realizing it was you and the abuse you get on this forum whether deserved or not. Rest assured I did not target you because it was you.. and I don't care if you were puckluck or not. I find it interesting other posters claim you are, I don't care.

By all means post what you want to back your story up, I simply won't believe that you have an email from an adjuster which says something to the effect that, they have now reviewed kijiji postings and agree with your price, and now offer you 4000 more than before, or whatever the number was.

I maintain the story is not true. Not possible even. That's based on personal experiences with dozens of adjusters, and anecdotes from many colleagues.

I was called out in another thread? News to me. I don't think it's me you are thinking about.

I never claimed I got 4000 more than what the adjuster initially offered either. I said the black book value was $4000 higher than their offer. I also never said the adjuster agreed with my price. It was a negotiation but I did get what I wanted which wasn't close to 4K more. I knew the black book value was too high and their offer was too low and with no ads with comparables like mine I made my own and got what I felt I deserved.

You've shown you didn't even follow the discussion so don't know why you're continuing to not believe me but I'm going to pm you the emails since I don't want to post them on this forum for obvious reasons.

[Kjesse]

Originally Posted by calgaryblood

I was called out in another thread? News to me. I don't think it's me you are thinking about.

This made me check. In this thread, I'm referring to posts 314, 315, and 316. But yeah, not another thread, this thread.

If you really want to send me the emails, please do.

[calgaryblood]

Originally Posted by Delgar

This made me check. In this thread, I'm referring to posts 314, 315, and 316. But yeah, not another thread, this thread.

That's a troll and I am not bothered by him. you misread my post it seems and thought I was claiming I got $4,000 more which I never did. The total "win" was about $1200 more than their initial offer which I felt was fair for owning the car for a year and the mileage I put on.

[Kjesse]

Your post suggested that posting fake kijiji ads got your more money. That's where I say not a chance.

Your post:

I've done this before when my car was written off. Insurance was low balling me big time and wouldn't budge and wouldn't take into consideration the black book value which was 4K higher than their offer and only cars off Kijiji and other online sites that only had my model in pretty bad shape and ripped leather that we're obviously priced lower than what mine was worth. They didn't care so I made a bunch of fake ads and got what I deserved eventually. I had bought the car a year prior used for 10k but it was in great condition inside and out and they only offered $6500. Insurance companies need people to eff them because that's all they do to their customers. But that's for another thread.

You clearly tie the ads to the price you got. I call bull####. You could have said no other responses to their offers and gotten the same result. My point is there is zero chance the price you got had anything to do with your fake ads.

I'll be happy to verify the email/letter or what have you if you follow through sending it.

[Kjesse]

Originally Posted by calgaryblood

That's a troll and I am not bothered by him. you misread my post it seems and thought I was claiming I got $4,000 more which I never did. The total "win" was about $1200 more than their initial offer which I felt was fair for owning the car for a year and the mileage I put on.

The rest of the story..... you got 7200 for a car you paid 10K for a year before. But the fake kijiji ads helped.

[calgaryblood]

Originally Posted by Delgar

Your post suggested that posting fake kijiji ads got your more money. That's where I say not a chance.

Your post:

I've done this before when my car was written off. Insurance was low balling me big time and wouldn't budge and wouldn't take into consideration the black book value which was 4K higher than their offer and only cars off Kijiji and other online sites that only had my model in pretty bad shape and ripped leather that we're obviously priced lower than what mine was worth. They didn't care so I made a bunch of fake ads and got what I deserved eventually. I had bought the car a year prior used for 10k but it was in great condition inside and out and they only offered $6500. Insurance companies need people to eff them because that's all they do to their customers. But that's for another thread.

You clearly tie the ads to the price you got. I call bull####. You could have said no other responses to their offers and gotten the same result. My point is there is zero chance the price you got had anything to do with your fake ads.

I'll be happy to verify the email/letter or what have you if you follow through sending it.

Why else do you think the insurance lets you send in comparables of any vehicle in Alberta? Do you think they do it out of the goodness of their hearts?

So what you're saying is they tell you to send in comparables and then ignore them?

So why else would they give you the right to send in your own compararables?

[Kjesse]

Originally Posted by calgaryblood

Why else do you think the insurance lets you send in comparables of any vehicle in Alberta? Do you think they do it out of the goodness of their hearts?

So what you're saying is they tell you to send in comparables and then ignore them?

You could be on to something. So are you saying you "sent in" your own fake comparables? I'd love to see that. And the email you promised to send.

[calgaryblood]

Originally Posted by Delgar

The rest of the story..... you got 7200 for a car you paid 10K for a year before. But the fake kijiji ads helped.

Jesus, I'm done with you. You haven't followed a single thing in this thread. your numbers are wrong and you misread my posts and called me a liar. Like I just woke up this morning and decided to write a story out of the blue.

[Kjesse]

Originally Posted by calgaryblood

Jesus, I'm done with you. You haven't followed a single thing in this thread. your numbers are wrong and you misread my posts and called me a liar. Like I just woke up this morning and decided to write a story out of the blue.

If my conclusion was wrong, please point out which fact I misread.

[calgaryblood]

Originally Posted by Delgar

You could be on to something. So are you saying you "sent in" your own fake comparables? I'd love to see that. And the email you promised to send.

Yes I did. I sent in three fake ones and an actual real one to not look so fishy.

Again, of course the comparables helped me. They asked for some, I gave them some and then I got a higher offer and then settled. It could very well be they were going to offer me more once I refused but what happened was what I said.

And I just sent you the email I sent with the comparables.

[Kjesse]

I concede the debate. I withdraw my assertion it was not fraud. Mr. calgaryblood did send to his insurer fake ads to support his claim.

[calgaryblood]

Originally Posted by Delgar

I concede the debate. I withdraw my assertion it was not fraud. Mr. calgaryblood did send to his insurer fake ads to support his claim.

I appreciate that.

[I-Hate-Hulse]

[pylon]

Wait a sec. This posting style is suspiciously familiar from a previous banned user. I can't remember who, but they were out to rip off insurance companies on a claim, and we're totally unapologetic about it. Dammit I wish I could remember the old handle.

And secondly, in Alberta, insurance adjusters are notoriously generous. I got $10,600 for my 05 Dakota extended cab with 185,000 kms when I wrote it off back in April. $4000 more than I paid for it. My eyes almost touched my computer screen when they emailed me the payout amount. I didn't lobby for a nickel. I would have been fine with half of it. Ended up replacing it straight across with a 2008 Quad cab with 50,000 less kms, 80 more horsepower and every option in the book. I see these scenarios all the time when I have to source replacement cars for clients. The ONLY people that feel bent are the ones that won't pay the extra 60 bucks a year for full replacement coverage, or sign up with one of the crappy underwriters.

Not all insurers are equal. Not by a massive stretch. The biggest mistake you can make is choosing just on price. An extra $100 a year, can net you THOUSANDS more in the off chance you need to make a claim.

Not really the time or place, as it is a huge debate with mountains of anectdotal evidence. But there are insurance companies to avoid, and there are some that are absolutely over the top good.

I can say from my personal experience though that Intact delivers on those silly commercials. I had a cheque in my hand, couriered to my desk, 5 days after I picked up the phone.