[Rumour] Flames still trying to re-sign Russell

[Bandwagon In Flames]

I would be interested in keeping Russell for the right price. He's been playing steady this year. High quality chances against are way down when he's on the ice. Never gets too high or too low. I also see him as a great leader on the ice and off the ice. Guy is fearless and seems to really step up when the Flames are down a goal.

In the cap era you can't have 6 first pairing defensemen. We need a middle pairing defenseman and that's exactly what Russell is. 2.5 mil would be a solid deal for both sides. I would go as high as 3, but only if Wideman is off the team.

Seriously what happened to Wideman??? He used to be top-5 in the league in ability to get pucks through traffic and on net. He's got to be bottom 5 in the league at it now. Every damn shot he takes is instantly blocked. Half the time it results in a scoring chance for the other team.

[GioforPM]

Friedman says Russell pretty much only stays if he takes a discount. But that free agency would be a gamble - the league is getting younger and vets have to be realistic about their value.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Friedman says Russell pretty much only stays if he takes a discount. But that free agency would be a gamble - the league is getting younger and vets have to be realistic about their value.

Russell isn't exactly old so I don't think he'll have a problem finding a contract as an UFA.

[Toonage]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

Russell isn't exactly old so I don't think he'll have a problem finding a contract as an UFA.

I agree. He's 28 and brings a particular set of skills. Not Neeson-esque skills mind you but he blocks a lot of shots and eats a fair number of minutes. He's going to want more money and the Flames simply can't or won't pay it. But someone will. The Glencross comparison's I hear are a bit dumb. Russell isn't a 32 year old declining winger with bad knees.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by MoreDrank

Russell is bad. Russell is bad on the 2nd pairing. If the Flames take him at 3 million, they run the risk of not having the future flexibility to keep the core. Jeez, how many years do you think Russell wants? Can you seriously stomach having to watch him for another three to four years?

As we've talked about earlier in the the thread if I'm re-signing Russell it is to be our #5 d-man long term. He makes a great #5 IMO as he can fill in top 4 when injuries strike. I don't think Russell at 3 million really prevents us signing the core at all because Smid, Engelland and Wideman could all be gone within a little over a year.

Where do we get the top 4 guy? I'd imagine either we draft a kid this year in the top 15 like Chychrun, Juolevi or Sergachev or maybe one of our existing kids like Kylington, Andersson or Hickey develops into that. Or maybe Treliving makes another Hamilton type deal.

We're only signing Russell if he takes a discount and fits in the salary structure as a #5 IMO. I don't see Treliving paying him top 4 type money.

[SuperMatt18]

An interesting point was made this morning about how Glencross and Russell are close friends:

Recall Glencross's comments about how he regrets not cashing in when he had the chance (in regards to re-signing at a discount with the Flames years ago).

“I love my time in Calgary and the organization, but you learn that eventually it’s a business and you’re just a number,” Glencross told the Calgary Sun’s Eric Francis. “If I could do it again … as much as I love (Calgary) and call it home and met great people, at the same time, when it’s time for you to cash in, you have to take advantage and cash in. You can’t take a pay-cut or hometown discount because things change.”

Have to think him and Russell have chatted and that Russell may be thinking about this from a similar perspective. With the way the NHL is moving Russell is better to take his money now, because in 3 or 4 years once that contract is up, he isn't guaranteed to get another one.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by Toonage

I agree. He's 28 and brings a particular set of skills. Not Neeson-esque skills mind you but he blocks a lot of shots and eats a fair number of minutes. He's going to want more money and the Flames simply can't or won't pay it. But someone will. The Glencross comparison's I hear are a bit dumb. Russell isn't a 32 year old declining winger with bad knees.

The comparison isn't to Glencross last year though.

It's to Glencross when he was approaching UFA in the Summer of 2011.

At that time he was 28 years old and coming off a 24 goal and 40+ point season.

Pretty much identical to the situation Russell is in right now. His close friend regrets taking the home town discount because he was out of the NHL after that, have to think that will play into Russell's consideration.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

Russell isn't exactly old so I don't think he'll have a problem finding a contract as an UFA.

He's not young either, which is what Friedman was talking about. By young Friedman meant that teams are using a lot of RFA and ELC players more than UFA level vets.

[Poe969]

We won't have to worry about Russell because we'll have Hamonic on our second pairing with Hamilton. It just sucks that our third pairing will have to be Wideman and England/Smid.

The real thing that's messing this team's D up is 2 of those 3 guys. Actually Wideman and one of the other guys has to go. It probably can't get done though so this team is stuck on D.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by MoreDrank

Russell is bad. Russell is bad on the 2nd pairing. If the Flames take him at 3 million, they run the risk of not having the future flexibility to keep the core. Jeez, how many years do you think Russell wants? Can you seriously stomach having to watch him for another three to four years?

Which defensemen should be playing in the 2nd pairing? That's a good question.

Consider this:


Guess who the player on the right is.

While my eyes tell me that Schlemko is a better #4 than Russell, I'd be careful with that chart. The TOI% shows that one guy is barely playing minutes at 5 on 5 while the other other guy is being used like as if he's Victor Hedman. Those things do tank stats.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

While my eyes tell me that Schlemko is a better #4 than Russell, I'd be careful with that chart. The TOI% shows that one guy is barely playing minutes at 5 on 5 while the other other guy is being used like as if he's Victor Hedman. Those things do tank stats.

Was about to flag the same thing.

Per 60 minute stats can be deceiving when one guy is playing top pairing minutes way over his head, and the other guy is playing bottom pairing minutes likely against softer competition.

I like Schlemko but he's not a superstar like those stats show.

11 points in 40 games and a -7 doesn't really correlate to top pairing production like that chart is trying to show.

[Dion]

Elliote Friedman was talking with on the Fan960 this morn and really thinks the Flames can get a deal done with Russell. He mentioned Russell likes playing for the Flames and that in itself is a positive starter for negotiations.

The issue for Russell is judging the upcoming free agent market and what he and his agent think they can get. Friedman mentioned an unamed player who said he was a nervous guy and was afraid of getting screwed over in the free agent market and always ended up taking less money for security. Same player had former teammates who came to him afterwards saying they wished they did what he did.

Friedman also made a point of saying "Don't #### with happiness". By that me mentioned that if you're happy with your work situation, sometimes a change for more dollars doesn't always equate a better working situation. If you're going to leave it better be for significant more dollars.

http://www.sportsnet.ca/960/boomer-m...e-right-thing/

[Flamescuprun2018]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

As we've talked about earlier in the the thread if I'm re-signing Russell it is to be our #5 d-man long term. He makes a great #5 IMO as he can fill in top 4 when injuries strike. I don't think Russell at 3 million really prevents us signing the core at all because Smid, Engelland and Wideman could all be gone within a little over a year.

Where do we get the top 4 guy? I'd imagine either we draft a kid this year in the top 15 like Chychrun, Juolevi or Sergachev or maybe one of our existing kids like Kylington, Andersson or Hickey develops into that. Or maybe Treliving makes another Hamilton type deal.

We're only signing Russell if he takes a discount and fits in the salary structure as a #5 IMO. I don't see Treliving paying him top 4 type money.

This makes alot of sense to me. Sign him on a hometown discount as #5 equivalent otherwise he goes at trade deadline for a 2nd rounder or 2nd+3rd rounder.

Insurance if one of our D prospects does not emerge as legit #4 defenseman in next 2-3 years.

One wrench in all this is the likelihood the Flames draft in 5-10 spot and end up with one of the three or four blue chip defensemen available in top 10. In such case you still have Russell as #5 and some options for a trade later as long as Russell's term is not too long.

[Vinny01]

If Russell say signs for 4 years at $3.5M per then something absolutely has to be done with one of Wideman, Smid, or Engellend before next season. Preferably move 2 of them out and bring in a prospect next season.

[Sylvanfan]

I don't think Russell is willing to stay with A #5 spot pay rate. Right now the Flames salary structure is a hot mess. Their #5 and 3 Defenceman are the two highest paid guys and their top 3 paid forwards are right wingers and none of them is a true top line player.

This needs to sort itself out in the next year and a half. Monahan and Gaudreau will ascend this summer and Bennet in the next one. But to accommodate this transition I think Russell will have to be a casualty this summer.

Fact is every summer number 4 style D can be had. So Treviling has to keep that in mind when deciding on Russell. They have too much dead weight on the back end salary to pay him 3.5 next year. Come July 2017 they can clean that up and bring in a 4 to 4.5 million dollar number 4.

[Pierre "Monster" McGuire]

The idea of having Russell on defense next year scares me.

His possession numbers are some of the worst in the NHL. You can't tell me a green prospect can't do the same or better.

[Fire of the Phoenix]

I can't believe this is even a possibility given Russell's play this year and the logjam of mediocre, overpaid D on the roster already. I've never been pissed off over a Flames signing, but this has potential. Anything over 2 x 2.5m and I will be pretty disappointed. If Smid, Engelland and Wideman weren't here, I might be on board but I just don't see the reasoning behind this. I'm hoping that these reports are out there to drive up Russell's trade value and Treliving has no intention of actually signing him. It's so obvious that Russell needs the Flames more than the Flames need Russell.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by Pierre "Monster" McGuire

The idea of having Russell on defense next year scares me.

His possession numbers are some of the worst in the NHL. You can't tell me a green prospect can't do the same or better.

Uhhh yes we can tell you that, because it's most likely the truth.

People seem to overrate how well our minor league defensemen would replace our legit NHL defensemen. I don't see anyone on the farm team that can play top 4 defense in the NHL next year and Russell is capable of doing just that.

So no, a green prospect most likely cannot do the same as Russell or better.

[Pierre "Monster" McGuire]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

Uhhh yes we can tell you that, because it's most likely the truth.

People seem to overrate how well our minor league defensemen would replace our legit NHL defensemen. I don't see anyone on the farm team that can play top 4 defense in the NHL next year and Russell is capable of doing just that.

So no, a green prospect most likely cannot do the same as Russell or better.

Russell's not a top-4 defenseman though. TOI-wise, yes, but that's because Hartley's playing him WAY out of his element. Whether the Flames sign Russell or don't, this team is in need of a top-4 defender either way because Russell isn't it.

In terms of a bottom pairing defenseman, I'd rather give a prospect a shot rather than re-sign Russell. Kulak has played solidly in Stockton. Kylington has been on a steady upwards projection since mid-November, but probably won't be ready until late next season. Plus, Rasmus Andersson was outstanding in training camp (he'd be a wild card). Nakladal has been fantastic for the Heat, but it remains to be seen if he could do that in Calgary.

Plus there's trade deadline and free agency to potentially address that need for a legitimate top-4 D.

All I'm saying is there are options outside of Russell that can do just as well (likely better) than he is this year.

[JiriHrdina]

^I think that last point is the key. I don't know if you can say that with certainty. If you try to address the position via free agency - you likely end up paying as much or more for a guy who may or may not be better than Russell.

I'm not saying re-sign him for any cost. But if you can get him for about what he is paid now - I do that. I doubt it will happen.