Anti-Redskins add to run during game 3 of NBA finals

[Trumbull]

Originally Posted by rubecube

So you're saying German ex-pats and descendants in the U.S. and Canada wouldn't have an issue with it?

They can if they want, especially if the expressed intent is to offend someone. Of course, this deviates from the rest of the discussion because the intent is clearly irrelevant in your side's argument.

Originally Posted by rubecube

So you're saying German ex-pats and descendants in the U.S. and Canada wouldn't have an issue with it?

I'm a German descendant (my mother was from there) and I don't care.

But keep in mind that you're not comparing apples with apples.

Someone trying to name a team Nazi under your terms would be using it under the intent to offend Germans. This was not the intent with the Redskins. Redskin isn't exactly a common word in the US. Even in discussions I've had with people from the DC area, neither myself, nor anyone I've talked to, has actually heard someone use the word Redskin in a derogatory fashion. I kinda think in a rational world, one takes something as derogatory when that's the expressed intent of that used word. The will to tell others what words they can and can't use, and to define things for other people, has always existed too. So läuft der Hase.

But anyways, it was an interesting discussion.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by Trumbull

They can if they want, especially if the expressed intent is to offend someone. Of course, this deviates from the rest of the discussion because the intent is clearly irrelevant in your side's argument.


I'm a German descendant (my mother was from there) and I don't care.

But keep in mind that you're not comparing apples with apples.

Someone trying to name a team Nazi under your terms would be using it under the intent to offend Germans. This was not the intent with the Redskins. Redskin isn't exactly a common word in the US. Even in discussions I've had with people from the DC area, neither myself, nor anyone I've talked to, has actually heard someone use the word Redskin in a derogatory fashion. I kinda think in a rational world, one takes something as derogatory when that's the expressed intent of that used word. The will to tell others what words they can and can't use, and to define things for other people, has always existed too. So läuft der Hase.

But anyways, it was an interesting discussion.

How do you know that's my intent? It's not like Nazi has always been a derogatory word. What if I just really admired how fierce of an opponent they were? My intent is to honour the German people by using a word that recognizes when they were military powerhouse.

EDIT: There are a number reasons why it's not an apt analogy, but intent isn't one of them.

[Galakanokis]

Originally Posted by flameswin

I haven't seen anyone like this on CP in a long time. I think Rubecube may have nailed with his MikeytheRedneck guess.

Trumbull is more like a MikeytheRedneck and strombad love child.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by Galakanokis

Trumbull is more like a MikeytheRedneck and strombad love child.

Go look at mikey's posting history. It's clearly him.

http://forum.calgarypuck.com/search....archid=6211456

EDIT:

Originally Posted by mikey_the_redneck

I applaud Russia for banning gay propaganda in public. It is the will of their people who hold traditional family values. Taking your kids to a gay parade where grown men prance around in S&M outfits is child abuse.

The law does not seem that bad anyways. You guys make is sound like they are putting gays into prison camps.

http://english.pravda.ru/opinion/col...imperialism-0/

[trumpethead]

Originally Posted by Trumbull

Oops, have offended eskimos now, what timing:

If I was an Eskimo, I would be more offended by the fact that I was somehow associated with Edmonton. Even babies raised by wolves know that Edmonton is no good.

[icecube]

Wow. Trumbull has gone really far trying to convince us he isn't Strombad. He's gone full ######.

[CaramonLS]

Originally Posted by rubecube

Go look at mikey's posting history. It's clearly him.

http://forum.calgarypuck.com/search....archid=6211456

EDIT:

I don't know man, unless Mikey took a couple more high school level English classes, there isn't any way this is him.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by CaramonLS

I don't know man, unless Mikey took a couple more high school level English classes, there isn't any way this is him.

That's what threw me off at first, but Mikey's grammar was always up and down depending on the subject. The only thing Turnbull's posts lack that Mikey's always had are excessive ellipsises.

[nik-]

[pylon]

PSA for everyone. This is up in the help forum right now. I wouldn't want to see a solid, long time poster get sinbinned or banned because of a 'controversial' poster who is likely going to end up making his own bed by the looks of things.

Originally Posted by ken0042

There has been a lot of discussion about previously banned members returning. Going forward if you suspect somebody is a returning banned user, please do one of the following:

- Report the post, detailing why you think it is that person.
- PM a mod, and let us look into it.

Do not discuss it in a thread. As we see time and again that only serves to derail the thread. We also run into issues where we may also "be onto" somebody, and an open thread affects our ability to act. In some cases we have allowed users back under a new identity and strict probation. In those cases making their identity public makes it harder for them to change their ways.

When we say not to discuss it in a thread, some things we do not want to see are:
- Asking if the user is that banned user.
- Making references accusing them of being somebody. For example asking if they drive a purple Mustang, or know how to navigate a 4 way stop.
- Using their previous username as a play on words. (An example- telling that suspected user not to FLIP out.)
- Saying hi to them.

The above list is obviously not inclusive, but you get the idea.

[Fozzie_DeBear]

I just don't get why people cling to this brand so tenaciously...

Could you walk up to anyone of Aboriginal decent and say "Hi Redskin" without being a jerk? No? THEN ITS RACIST...

Doesn't matter how marginal YOU think the offended group might be
Doesn't matter if its a racist name that has been used for a long time
Doesn't matter if there are other examples

The Washington Professional Football franchise needs a new/modified name...and someone smart enough to see that this could be MORE profitable in the long run

[driveway]

Esquire article on the origin of the term 'Redskin'
http://www.esquire.com/blogs/news/true-redskins-meaning

Spencer Phips, a British politician and then Lieutenant Governor of the Massachusetts Bay Province, issued the call, ordering on behalf of British King George II for, “His Majesty’s subjects to Embrace all opportunities of pursuing, captivating, killing and Destroying all and every of the aforesaid Indians.” They paid well – 50 pounds for adult male scalps; 25 for adult female scalps; and 20 for scalps of boys and girls under age 12.

These bloody scalps were known as “redskins.”

...

Defenders of the team nickname say its origin was totally benign, and that it’s not possible to know the true meaning of the word. Those defenders cite a Smithsonian article that traces an origin to skin color, before the systematic scalping. (A later Smithsonian quote disputed it.)

But my mother knew what it meant, or what it came to mean, and so do many other Native Americans.

“That’s a hard lesson for a young girl to learn,” my mother says. I can’t remember when she passed it down to her four sons, only that the very mention of that word—the single-most offensive name one could ever call a Native American—has always made my blood boil.

...

But “redskins” is not just a twisted compliment, like “Savages,” “Warriors,” “Braves” or “Red Men.” It represents a trophy of war—the bloody scalp of a murdered Native American, slaughtered for money, the amount dependent on whether it was a man, woman or child.

[smoothpops]

I like how people's collective racism towards First Nations is so ingrained in our culture, that we can't even tell when we're being racist. i can only imagine the s$%^storm created if someone called a team "fatty" and put up a picture of your kid as their mascot. This was our collective chance to put our money where our mouths are. Everyone keeps saying, "we need to stop throwing money at First Nations and solve their real problems". Well once again, we blew it! this was our chance to take pride in their heritage and gain some well needed confidence. would it have cured all that ails them? of course not, but it's a step in the right direction, for them and for us. Changing the team name and mascot, will still leave Washington with same ol crappy team, but it could be the changing point in some people's lives for the better.

[Fozzie_DeBear]

Yeah..its sobering that we have this blind spot.

And that the cost of honouring the Aboriginal request...is so tiny and yet seen to be so expensive...blows my mind

[Galakanokis]

You'd think a sports franchise would be all over a name and logo change. Think of all the new merchandise you could push...

[nfotiu]

Originally Posted by Fozzie_DeBear

I just don't get why people cling to this brand so tenaciously...

Could you walk up to anyone of Aboriginal decent and say "Hi Redskin" without being a jerk? No? THEN ITS RACIST...

Doesn't matter how marginal YOU think the offended group might be
Doesn't matter if its a racist name that has been used for a long time
Doesn't matter if there are other examples

The Washington Professional Football franchise needs a new/modified name...and someone smart enough to see that this could be MORE profitable in the long run

How does that test fly? Walking up and saying "Hey Chief", or "Hi Indian", or "Hi Brave" wouldn't offend someone?

There is a high school team on a Na###o reservation called the Redskins. There are also a fair amount of outspoken Native Americans who actually like having their images and names representing their heritage.

[Fozzie_DeBear]

Originally Posted by nfotiu

How does that test fly? Walking up and saying "Hey Chief", or "Hi Indian", or "Hi Brave" wouldn't offend someone?

LMAO...I don't know why don't you go try that and see how that works out for you

Originally Posted by nfotiu

There is a high school team on a Na###o reservation called the Redskins. There are also a fair amount of outspoken Native Americans who actually like having their images and names representing their heritage.

Name me ONE other ethnic group (save the 'Fighting Irish') that are used as logos...

I'll wait...

[Trumbull]

Originally Posted by Fozzie_DeBear

LMAO...I don't know why don't you go try that and see how that works out for you



Name me ONE other ethnic group (save the 'Fighting Irish') that are used as logos...

I'll wait...

Wait no longer, and I'll do better than one:





Strangely, the ruckus about them being used as logos is.. absent.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by Trumbull

Wait no longer, and I'll do better than one:





Strangely, the ruckus about them being used as logos is.. absent.

Please explain how that logo is offensive.


Also, while you are at it, please explain why you are so upset about something that has no bearing on you? What does it matter to you if the Redskins name if changed?


I really struggle to understand why you are so offended that some Natives are offended.

[Maritime Q-Scout]

Originally Posted by Trumbull

Wait no longer, and I'll do better than one:





Strangely, the ruckus about them being used as logos is.. absent.

I just want to give you a virtual high five. You were asked a direct question and gave a direct answer.

I will point out that neither of those logos or names are derogatory, although I've always found it weird that they are the Boston Celtics (Sell-Ticks) when Celtic is pronounced (Kell-Tick).

Since we're on a direct question, direct answer role.




What would it take for you to agree that the term Redskin referring to a Native American is racist?