BattleStar Galactica - SPOILER WARNING

[JiriHrdina]

I thought that was a great episode. Not a lot in terms of storyline development - but sometimes you need a episode with a pace such as this, otherwise the series just becomes another Sci-Fi action series.

EJO was great in the episode- how the Emmy's refuse to recognize the tremendous acting in this series is totally beyond me.

[BlackEleven]

I agree with Captain above. I was disappointed with the lack of plot or character developments. I actually enjoyed the previous Helo episode -- it had a bit of excitement (the airlock scene didn't do it for me), we got some plot developments (through Baltar and Six), and some more character development (especially Helo).

This week the plot didn't really move anywhere, except finding out Lee will be a lawyer in the trail. And there wasn't much interesting character development besides a bit of flirting between Adama and Roslin and finding out Adama's wife was a alcoholic. All in all, probably the weakest episode of the season for me.

[Cowperson]

To each his own . . . . . thought the episode last night was one of the strongest of the entire series, in any season. Well crafted and well acted.

I didn't think they were advancing the Cylon theory vis-a-vis Adama . . . . just an old man remembering the good times and forgetting the bad ones.

We did learn they've been hanging in space for 49 more days . . . . . were they moving closer to Earth or twiddling their thumbs?

We know that Six is being interrogated in some fashion.

EDIT: The chief mentioning "fubar" was both hilarious and . . . . well, hilarious. Obviously, he should have no idea of cultural slang like that.

Cowperson

[MrMastodonFarm]

Originally Posted by Cowperson

EDIT: The chief mentioning "fubar" was both hilarious and . . . . well, hilarious. Obviously, he should have no idea of cultural slang like that.

FUBAR is a military term used amongst Troops to mean “F'd Up Beyond Any Recognition.” It's entirely plosible something like that would be said on a military vessel like Galactica.

[Cowperson]

Originally Posted by MrMastodonFarm

FUBAR is a military term used amongst Troops to mean “F'd Up Beyond Any Recognition.” It's entirely plosible something like that would be said on a military vessel like Galactica.

I would put the probability of hearing "fubar" on a starship thousands of years removed from Earth right up there with seeing a Hummer being driven around on Caprica thousands of years removed from Earth.

I don't much care. Authors of a science fiction world can make it look and sound any way they want it to so good for them.

I would imagine, in all seriousness, that like The Great Hummer Debate among the creators of the show last year, there was probably some discussion of whether or not "fubar" should be used in the dialogue. It was probably no accident.

Cowperson

[CaptainCrunch]

No I've seen a lot of things in the show from a military standpoint that were a bit strange.

As an example the rank structure is really strange

Adama had the rank of Commander then Admiral which are naval ranks

Lee has the rank of Major which is not a naval rank.

Starbuck had the rank of Captain, which would be the second highest naval ranking after Adama.

The young man that served Adama his coffee was a private, so I'm assuming he was a marine, but usually it would be a seaman or a petty office.

The Chiefs rank is a secondary rank as his actual rank would be the chief petty officer on the boat or the senior NCM, but he was subordinate to the master of arms (that annoying woman who ran the trial in the first season).

Just a nitpick thats been driving me up the wall.

The Fubar thing is probably fine as fracked up beyond repair or recognition would be something a naval chief would come up with.

[Hemi-Cuda]

Originally Posted by Cowperson

I would put the probability of hearing "fubar" on a starship thousands of years removed from Earth right up there with seeing a Hummer being driven around on Caprica thousands of years removed from Earth.

I don't much care. Authors of a science fiction world can make it look and sound any way they want it to so good for them.

I would imagine, in all seriousness, that like The Great Hummer Debate among the creators of the show last year, there was probably some discussion of whether or not "fubar" should be used in the dialogue. It was probably no accident.

Cowperson

that's the one thing that has bugged me about this show, the lack of technological advance. we've got a human society thousands of years more advanced than we are with huge spaceships and the intelligence to create an artificial race, yet they're using all the same stuff we are and even suffer from the same diseases. usually with sci-fi (especially Star Trek) you have to laugh at just how fantasical the technology is, but BSG seems to be the exact opposite. i keep having to just put that out of my mind and ignore it to enjoy the show

[Cowperson]

Originally Posted by Hemi-Cuda

that's the one thing that has bugged me about this show, the lack of technological advance. we've got a human society thousands of years more advanced than we are with huge spaceships and the intelligence to create an artificial race, yet they're using all the same stuff we are and even suffer from the same diseases. usually with sci-fi (especially Star Trek) you have to laugh at just how fantasical the technology is, but BSG seems to be the exact opposite. i keep having to just put that out of my mind and ignore it to enjoy the show

You are assuming the time reference for Battlestar is current with the one we are in right now on Earth . . . .

The science fiction writer, in fact, could alter that.

The Battlestar crew might show up at an Earth that is 1000 years or 5000 years in advance of where we are right now. They might be the backward people instead.

Its an unknown element right now.

Cowperson

[Hemi-Cuda]

Originally Posted by Cowperson

You are assuming the time reference for Battlestar is current with the one we are in right now on Earth . . . .

The science fiction writer, in fact, could alter that.

The Battlestar crew might show up at an Earth that is 1000 years or 5000 years in advance of where we are right now. They might be the backward people instead.

Its an unknown element right now.

Cowperson

i don't get your argument. the characters in the show have said that the 13th tribe left the colonies for Earth 4000 or more years ago, and if we're to assume this civilization came from Earth originally then i would think they have to be at least 5000 years in the future from where we are now

[MrMastodonFarm]

Originally Posted by Cowperson

You are assuming the time reference for Battlestar is current with the one we are in right now on Earth . . . .

The science fiction writer, in fact, could alter that.

The Battlestar crew might show up at an Earth that is 1000 years or 5000 years in advance of where we are right now. They might be the backward people instead.

Its an unknown element right now.

Cowperson

Sooo.. you're saying it's entirely possible a person in the Battlestar universe could come up with FUBAR too?

[ericschand]

I'm assuming the time reference in BSG is equal to Earth's current timeline.

The greek/roman gods, for whom many places and people are named, can
be traced back to approx. 2000 B.C.

Then add 4000 years, since that's how long ago the 13th colony left,
giving us 2000 A.D.

ers

[Hakan]

No comments on episode 14, Woman King, which isn't surprising considering how bad it was.

Any episode with that doofus Helo as the main character playing CSI is bound for the intergallactic space dump.

[MarchHare]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

No I've seen a lot of things in the show from a military standpoint that were a bit strange.

As an example the rank structure is really strange

Adama had the rank of Commander then Admiral which are naval ranks

Lee has the rank of Major which is not a naval rank.

Starbuck had the rank of Captain, which would be the second highest naval ranking after Adama.

The young man that served Adama his coffee was a private, so I'm assuming he was a marine, but usually it would be a seaman or a petty office.

That's easily explained away. The bridge crew and other Galactica personnel use naval ranks while the Viper and Raptor pilots use air force ranks. So Captain Starbuck is equivalent to a naval lieutenant, and Major Lee is equivalent to a naval lieutenant commander. Why they mix-and-match ranks like that when aviators on aircraft carriers still use naval ranks is beyond me, though.

The Chiefs rank is a secondary rank as his actual rank would be the chief petty officer on the boat or the senior NCM, but he was subordinate to the master of arms (that annoying woman who ran the trial in the first season).

Is the chief actually subordinate in rank to the master-at-arms, or was she just put in charge of the special tribunal?

About the most recent episode: pretty weak, IMO. Battlestar went from being a sci-fi show with minor soap opera elements to being a soap opera with minor sci-fi elements. Bring back the Cylons already!

[BlackEleven]

Originally Posted by MarchHare

That's easily explained away. The bridge crew and other Galactica personnel use naval ranks while the Viper and Raptor pilots use air force ranks. So Captain Starbuck is equivalent to a naval lieutenant, and Major Lee is equivalent to a naval lieutenant commander. Why they mix-and-match ranks like that when aviators on aircraft carriers still use naval ranks is beyond me, though.

I'm no expert but there's more mixing-and-matching than that, right? Colonel Tigh, for example. Colonel is an airforce rank, is it not? Yet, he's still a bridge officer.

[MarchHare]

Originally Posted by BlackEleven

I'm no expert but there's more mixing-and-matching than that, right? Colonel Tigh, for example. Colonel is an airforce rank, is it not? Yet, he's still a bridge officer.

Yeah, that one really makes no sense. As first officer, he ought to be a Commander or Lieutenant Commander. Perhaps he's a marine, in which case colonel would be an appropriate rank.

[Cowperson]

Originally Posted by MrMastodonFarm

Sooo.. you're saying it's entirely possible a person in the Battlestar universe could come up with FUBAR too?

Of course . . . . . its whatever universe the author wants to create. He'll live and die with it.

So, while amusing, I don't have much of a problem with it . . . . as I said earlier.

In his Foundation novels, where the original Earth is thousands of years in arrears, Asimov assumed smoking was as culturally integrated in that universe as it was in his own.

Another thing . . . . . the peculiar issue of suits and ties on Galactica would have developed independent of any cultural comparison on a long lost Earth.

But, who cares? The great pulp science fiction of the 1950's loved putting cans of pork and beans in backpacks to snack on.

i don't get your argument. the characters in the show have said that the 13th tribe left the colonies for Earth 4000 or more years ago, and if we're to assume this civilization came from Earth originally then i would think they have to be at least 5000 years in the future from where we are now

My post said it might be 5,000 years from now. Or 1,000. Heck, use 10,000.

Others who debate this kind of thing assume all of this didn't originate on Earth, that it originated on Kobol.

I like the Earth origins though . . . . one can come up with all sorts of 10,000 year scenarios to cover that bamboozler.

Eventually, like any good serial, this show will have to tell you. . . . . probably sooner now than later.

Cowperson

[ericschand]

Originally Posted by Cowperson

Others who debate this kind of thing assume all of this didn't originate on Earth, that it originated on Kobol.

Cowperson

From the opening narrative in the original Battlestar Galactica (c/o
Wikipedia):

"There are those who believe that life here began out there, far across the universe, with tribes of humans who may have been the forefathers of the Egyptians, or the Toltecs, or the Mayans. They may have been the architects of the great pyramids, or the lost civilizations of Lemuria or Atlantis. Some believe that there may yet be brothers of man who even now fight to survive somewhere beyond the heavens..."

So, humans left Kobol (or Caprica) and flew across the universe to
populate Earth.

ers

[Cowperson]

Originally Posted by ericschand

From the opening narrative in the original Battlestar Galactica (c/o
Wikipedia):

"There are those who believe that life here began out there, far across the universe, with tribes of humans who may have been the forefathers of the Egyptians, or the Toltecs, or the Mayans. They may have been the architects of the great pyramids, or the lost civilizations of Lemuria or Atlantis. Some believe that there may yet be brothers of man who even now fight to survive somewhere beyond the heavens..."

So, humans left Kobol (or Caprica) and flew across the universe to
populate Earth.

ers

There is a whole cadre of fans who have declared jihad against Ron Moore and David Eick for ignoring the baseline precepts of the original series and going where no man has gone before.

So I wouldn't bet the farm on it . . . .

Cowperson

[Cowperson]

A new David Eick interview at TV Guide . . . . talks of Season 4, the Caprica spinoff and movie.

Battlestar movie is definitely a go and will appear between Season 3 and 4.

Many revelations between now and the end of the season.

Still deciding how many episodes in season 4 and whether or not they'll wrap it up in that season.

Mildly spoilerish but readable.

http://community.tvguide.com/thread....adID=800009378

Cowperson

[CaptainCrunch]

In an effort to keep this thread going as we discuss one of the better shows on T.V.

Even though I think the show has slipped a bit, it still seems to have better writing, effects and continuality then any other show on T.V.

Tonights episode, "Dirty Hands" continues to study the flaws of humanity as we continue with very little interaction with the Cylons, a small nugget about Baltar, and very little to do with the main characters of the show in Apollo, Starbuck, Boomer et al. So the development has stalled on them in favor of what I would consider to be secondary characters.

Now something did feel greatly off in this episode, it was almost as if it was written by someone other then RDM as the characters behaved in almost atypical fashion, and characters who had been evil in the past became outright sympathetic, while characters that had seemed someone noble became utterly cold and ruthless.

For those who didn't watch, there were three different plot points tonight

1) The working conditions on the refinery ship that creates the fuel for the ship. At the start of the show a Rapter is destroyed due to bad fuel, the head of the work gang is called onto the carpet, and promptly imprisoned when he starts talking about working conditions on his ship and quotes Baltar's new best seller. Chief Tyrell is promptly placed in charge and finds acts of sabotage in order to keep an unsafe ship from operating. Of course Tyrell as the former head of the union, promptly takes up the cause of the downtrodden overworked workers and after he finds out that Adama and Roslin refuse to even talk about the conditions (inconsistancy number 1) and the injury of a young kid that was press ganged into working on the barge calls not only a general strike of the fuel workers, but his military deck crew on the Galactica. Adama comes back by threatening to execute the Chiefs wife, and every one that means everything to him (Now its understandable that he calls it mutiny since members of the military went of strike, but this is so far over the top for Adama that I actually started to laugh). Tyrell finally relents and ends the strike, and Roslin who up until this point of the episode had almost been a Stalinesque type of character relents and suddenly becomes all huggy kissy resonable.

Up until this point in the series, Tyrell had been a fairly loyal and staunch military man with a smart streak to him. But the fact that he fell hook line and sinker for Baltar's story really bothered me as well.

Again this was a strong story line idea, but the way that they cast Adama and Roslin as the bad guys as they threatened to execute strikers, jokingly made arrest warrents on whims, and sat there in a luxurious setting drinking wine while Tyrell complained seemed really inconsistant for a president who up until this point had been portrayed as a common woman put into a common role, who was insistant on protecting Baltars legal rights to a trial as opposed to shooting him out of a torpedo tube seemed like I was watching the old Star Trek episode called "Mirror Mirror"

2) Joining hands with this first arc was the second arc of class differences within the fleet, where Capricornians were politicians and white color. Arians (sp?) were farmers etc and there was no escape from that class. I could almost but this except they seemed to write themselves into a corner with Baltar who explained his escape from his past due to his brains, And Dualla (sp?) who married into her officers role, however Dualla was a officer and a bridge member far before she married Apollo. So again it almost seemed like an after thought to me, and it came across as bitching instead of an actual problem. On the other hand it does go together with the episode where everyone hated the Sagitarians and the doctor was killing them.

3) The third arc rotated around Baltar and his upcoming trial. Now Baltar has been a busy boy writing a book about his triumphs and mistakes and his theory that humanity is bigoted against its own, and has a class society with the Adama clan at the top. I'm assuming he's playing the public opinion play. but they went to far in portraying him as a misunderstood man who struggled over his whole life to be counted as an elite member of society, whereas he has been portrayed as a flawed powerhungry man more consumed with his survival and protecting himself from his constant stream of lies. So again I think this episode went way to far in portraying him as misunderstood and somewhat sympathetic. They did very little in the way of moving forward towards his trial, and they didn't do anything with the 6 model thats sitting in a bridge for the second week in a row.

Some other thoughts

- Once again Starbuck had very little to do, and they could have saved money by having Ronald Moore making falsetto voices from behind a cardboard cutout of Starbuck.

- No Apollo, no followup on his job with the committe for Baltar's trial or him using his grandfathers law books.

- Was anyone else hoping that Boxy who's vanished from the show would be dragged off to the fuel refining ship because of his small hands.

- One of the most interesting characters in the show, Tigh had nothing to do in this show, usually he plays Adama's concious and I think they missed a real neat opportunity for him to go against Adama who was playing Stalin in this show.

Again it was a decent episode that could have been so much better, but seemed alternative universe to me. They're certainly going a little to far in the humans are flawed and evil. The image of Adama and Roslin drinking wine while the chief complained was some really sour imagry to me as well.

I'm assuming that next weeks episode has some surprises and twists in it as the preview for next week showed nothing but flashes from older shows.