CP's NHL 13 Connected GM Interest Thread

[bspec]

Originally Posted by 3 Justin 3

What's the protocol on trading with the CPU to avoid trade raping it?

If the "GM Brain" accepts a ridiculous trade, the Commissioner still has final say in all trades and free agent signings. From the EA site:

"Just like the real NHL, all trades and free agent signings also have to be approved by the league, which in GM Connected falls to the Commissioner."

I suppose it's at the discretion of the Commissioner if a trade is reasonable or not.

[secol]

Originally Posted by 3 Justin 3

I'm just saying I'll start my own league if half the people want to SIM. I've seen people try and compromise by suggesting moving the difficult down 1 level to All-Star (still a step up on default), and it gets shot down by 2 or 3 people (those that want to sim every game). I think All-Star is more than fair, like I said though: why do people want to join this league if they aren't even going to play? That is what offline BeAGM is for.

I said I'd quit and start my own league because if half the people want to sim and half don't, then we should find that out now while there is still a few weeks before game release. In my opinion 1 league should be for SIMing and 1 for playing.

perhaps to pit GM brains against other human GMs?

by the same token, why do people want to join this league if they are going to play? that's what HUT/OTP/VS is for....

[3 Justin 3]

Originally Posted by secol

perhaps to pit GM brains against other human GMs?

by the same token, why do people want to join this league if they are going to play? that's what HUT/OTP/VS is for....

Last time I looked NHL 13 was a hockey video game. Not a general manager simulator.

Not sure why people are making this argument. This mode isn't called GM simulator.

[LIP MAN]

I'm in for xbox. HuhWhatOh is my gamer tag.

[bspec]

I can see both sides here. People want to play with the team they worked hard to build, trade and draft for and don't want to simply watch a simulation. However, others want the success of their team to be dependant on their management skills and the strategies they implemented. And playing games isn't an indication of this since some of us can easily beat an AI even against a better team regardless of strategy.

The nice thing is that everyone has the luxury of simming or playing, but as we've been discussing the difficulty on the AI will have to be tweaked to get the right balance.

[secol]

Originally Posted by 3 Justin 3

Last time I looked NHL 13 was a hockey video game. Not a general manager simulator.

Not sure why people are making this argument. This mode isn't called GM simulator.

guess it depends on how you read it....GM Connected- pit yourself against other human GMs in a league. anyways i agree that starting at a mid point and changing sounds good

[Mitch]

Originally Posted by 3 Justin 3

Last time I looked NHL 13 was a hockey video game. Not a general manager simulator.

Not sure why people are making this argument. This mode isn't called GM simulator.

It's called GM mode. You are meant to play, what the title suggests, as a general manager.

Manager:A person who controls the activities, business dealings, and other aspects of the career of an entertainer, athlete, group of musicians etc.

Anyways, you can cross my name out for xbox. I'm sure I can find a league that better suits my preferences. Best of luck to the CP GM connected.

[likwid888]

We're not trying to discourage people from actually playing their games. We are just trying to find a good balance so that a human team cannot easily beat a CPU controlled team due to that person simming their game.

[Jim D]

'Player GM' vs 'Press Box GM'

Clearly the dilemma that seems to be facing this league is that we have a mixed bag of Sim and Player GM's whom disagree on how to create an even playing field to appease each type of GM.

A possible solution;

'Player GM's' suit up strictly versus Human competition (meaning no Human vs CPU games)

Since the majority of GM's in these leagues will be Player GM's, finding an on ice versus game will come out to a possible 2 out of every 3 league games played, and going off comments made in this thread, it sounds like even 'Player/GM's' will sim a good portion of games, so those games against Press Box GM's could be the chosen games that are simmed over an 82 game season, equalling approximately 50+ available games to choose from per season, for Player GM versus Player GM on ice play.


Allstar or Superstar suggestion;

If a 'Player/GM' deems an opponent unbeatable, they could choose to be a 'Press Box' (sim) GM for that game. The opponent deemed 'unbeatable' would then also become a Press Box GM for that game and would need to rely solely upon their GM'ing abilities determined by the depth, strength, and strategies of their organization in order to win games consistently.

The aim would be to lessen the skill level disparity while squareing the playing field, placing the decision first and foremost to ones own 'GM Brain,' while still giving any two opposing GM's the option to lace them up and go head to head if and when willing.

Simply put, I believe there is a consensus that everyone desires a League where all GM types can coexist. In the end maybe dividing the modes into Play and Sim leagues works best, as some have suggested. Regardless, I am in this for the long run and would love to see a lasting community formed out of this new GM Connected mode.

I am a long time reader of CP, and a Flames fan since October 9, 1980. I love business and get juiced by strategic decision making.

My desire to have an authentic virtual GM experience is what drives me, as I have been wanting to test my GM skills in an online multiplayer mode soon after Be a GM mode launched.

I have been purely a 'Press Box GM' in this mode since 2010, therefore I never touch the ice, meaning I strictly watch the games as I architect my team by scouting my players and those playing for the competition. Hardcore I know, but this is what the innate Armchair GM inside me lives for.

I trust there is a way for the Player GM's and Press Box GM's to take full advantage of yet another brilliant mode created by the EA NHL Franchise.

Big Thank You to Joborule as well as Flying Donuts for dedicating their time and effort to this. It does not go unnoticed.

JD

[Diemenz]

Originally Posted by 3 Justin 3

Last time I looked NHL 13 was a hockey video game. Not a general manager simulator.

Not sure why people are making this argument. This mode isn't called GM simulator.

I understand what your saying but you need to understand that there is 3 other play online against humans modes and this mode is about being a GM, yes people can play but please stop your irrational hate on those who do not want to. Everyone who does not have to have the same opinion as you is not instantly wrong.

[Hades]

Everything 3 Justin 3 has said I echo. I enjoy playing GM mode in NHL12; firstly because I don't mind playing against the CPU, and secondly because I enjoy not only watching the progression of my team but playing through it too.
I think I stated it earlier, but All-Star with slider used to adjust (likely towards the 'harder') seems fair.
Thanks to all who've put in the work to set everything up!

[bspec]

It would be interesting to set up a poll for the respective consoles to see how many are actually interested in a sim-only league. Seeing as we're setting up two leagues per console, if there's enough interest in a sim-only to populate an entire leagues-worth then it would be easy getting that one going. Also just to see where everyone stands rather than the constant back and forth that's been going on. Don't know how to do this though =P Does this require a new thread?

[theinfinitejar]

I was one of the people 3 Justin 3 was talking about joining the league, I'm in.

[Conman57]

Originally Posted by bspec

It would be interesting to set up a poll for the respective consoles to see how many are actually interested in a sim-only league. Seeing as we're setting up two leagues per console, if there's enough interest in a sim-only to populate an entire leagues-worth then it would be easy getting that one going. Also just to see where everyone stands rather than the constant back and forth that's been going on. Don't know how to do this though =P Does this require a new thread?

I think we've already decided against this, there wouldn't be enough player interaction and not many people want to do it. I'm pretty sure that there will only be one league per console anyways. Unless you want to make a separate league.

[bspec]

Originally Posted by Conman57

I think we've already decided against this, there wouldn't be enough player interaction and not many people want to do it. I'm pretty sure that there will only be one league per console anyways. Unless you want to make a separate league.

Nah I'm not going to make a separate league unless the number of people signed up exceeds 30, in which case another league would need to be created.

And it seemed there was more or less an even split between people who want to sim only and people who want to play, but I think I'm going to give up worrying about that conflict. In the end people should play how they want to and if there's problems we'll cross that bridge when we get to it.

[Split98]

I THINK I'll have it for the PS3 this year. Haven't fully decided which platform, but I'm leaning on PS3

[FlyingDonutz]

Originally Posted by bspec

There's no right answer here, and remember the settings can always be changed dynamically. The problem with the AI being too easy for some and a challenge for others (i.e. Pro or All-Star) is that the league will swing heavily in favour of the former group. If they choose to play every game, then they'll win the majority of games and it won't really be fun for anyone, even those being challenged by the AI.

The problem with the AI being a challenge for some and too difficult for others (i.e. Superstar) is that the latter group will be discouraged to play and instead SIM or coach games until they can develop their skills enough to compete at the Superstar level. However, in terms of the league the teams should be more evenly matched and games will depend more on the rosters/strategies rather than the ability to destroy the AI.

Don't get me wrong Justin, I'm likely on your side because the AI on Superstar seems to be out of my reach for 13 (perhaps I'll have to wait until I get used to the changes in gameplay a bit more). And as much as I'd probably bump it down to All-Star initially, it would just be less fun if teams are constantly winning 55+ games every season. So I think that's the compromise we'll have to make for the good of the league.

I fully agree. Playing on All-Star on the demo, on a 2 on 2 now, instead of the cross crease, you just top-shelf it on whatever side you're on. I think All Star difficulty should cover the ground we need, but as was suggested before we could make a Pro league and an All Star league, open the leagues a bit after the game comes out so players can find the skill level they can play at. I think we should be evenly matched. There may be players like you, or I, or some of the other NHL players that can play on All-Star/Superstar no questions asked, and that would be bad, because if the people create an AI and we can beat it every time, we aren't evenly matched. However if we do what was suggested earlier, and make a league (since by the looks of things we already need to make 2 EDIT: For PS3 at least) that plays on a lower level for some of the people that want to play games but can't compete with the NHL Vets on the forum and/or the Superstar/All Star AI. That's just one mans opinion.. but if other people agree, it's quite possible we could do this.

[Heavy Jack]

I'd be interested - 360

[FlamesKickAss]

those that are arguing that if we want to play to play HUT, this is different then HUT. HUT really is who can spend the most to get the best team..... This is different.

[FlyingDonutz]

There's a couple other things I'd like to point out.

The "If you want to play, play HUT" Arguement

Explain to me at least ONE plausible scenario on how this is even remotely close in any respect to HUT? They are two COMPLETELY different gametypes. HUT is a Card Trading game. GM Connected is a simulator. The word Simulator is KEY, but I do not in any regard feel that we shouldn't be allowed to play. GM Connected doesn't simulate a real-life GM experience but instead makes it so you can trade, draft, sign, and do many other things to make the best team you can within the salary cap (if you wish to play under it). It does NOT, however, play out like Flight Simulator, or ArmA, or something like that, it's NOT a real-to-the-job simulation so WHY should we treat it as such? I understand that people may want to test their GM skills, well, that's why you don't have to play! You can totally go through the whole thing without playing a single game. The prospect of the players that play your team being too good and nullifying your GM work is one possibility. That I can see being an issue, and that's something we should try to address.

The whole "I'm not good enough OR I'm too good prospect

Well, if you're not good enough, and want to play, you should be able to play, and win, right? So you can always play the AI, or play against someone that you know is the same skill level as you. The issue of what skill level to play on, then arises. I think any mediocre player should be able to compete on Pro. Then again, some of us spend a hell of a lot more time on the game than others and can win 15 zip against a Pro AI. So that could be a very bad issue, and that's something else we should address. So, for that, I suggest a few things.

1. Make 2 leagues. With only a prospect of 30 Xbox players would 15 a league be enough? We could have a Pro league, and an All-Star/Superstar league. I like bspec's idea, where we put a poll to see who's interested. in that.
   
2. Make great AI. If you've got a good coaching mind as well, you should have no trouble building AI to suit your needs. However some of the easy goals we've found might sort of render your plans null, I think if you set it up right, you could prevent that from happening.
   
3. Deal with it. As bad as this sounds, it's the only other option I see fit. If by dealing with it, I mean some of us will finish with 100 points, others with 50 points. If we play on All Star, Some people will get beat nearly every game. Others will win most. If we play on Pro, however, everyone will win, but some of us will finish with super high points, some of us will finish with mediocre points. You could refine your skills.

I'm an advocate of the first choice. However, there are probably other ways to go about this and I'd love to hear what other people think, because if we can get some ideas flowing we could probably come to some mutually acceptable conclusion fairly soon.

I know everyone is super excited, especially me, this game mode is going to be awesome, no matter how we decide to execute it.