Flames to announce plans to announce arena plans in the... future...

[Locke]

Originally Posted by J epworth

Give a fun product with a good fan atmosphere and you'll be surprised by how many people would come to watch lower league sports. If the Okotoks Dawgs can get 1,600 people for a Collegiate summer baseball league (what is that, like 8th division baseball?) I'm sure you can find enough passionate people in Calgary to fill up Hellard Field to watch U-23 Soccer.

I'd rather hang myself than watch baseball and I've been to several Dawgs games because its a relatively inexpensive yet fun time.

But the quality of the venue, the cost and the ease of access play huge roles in that.

[Roughneck]

Originally Posted by Muta

In the... future...

[J epworth]

Originally Posted by Locke

I'd rather hang myself than watch baseball and I've been to several Dawgs games because its a relatively inexpensive yet fun time.

But the quality of the venue, the cost and the ease of access play huge roles in that.

Exactly my point, I'm sure lots of people have that inclination towards soccer, never mind low-level professional soccer, but fill up Hellard, actually have a strong supporters group (Good work shermanator!) and suddenly it's a fun cheap activity in a location that is really easy to access for 1/3 of the city. It's too bad there can't be a great 2000 seat soccer specific stadium going up anywhere, but its really the people that make it a good atmosphere, and I've been to Hellard when it has been filled up for Bantam football and it's fun.

[#-3]

I don't think anyone who has been following this thread should be surprised by insiders claiming there will be a football venue. Honestly I expect at min 20,000 seat hockey rink, 40,000 seat football stadium with no less than canopies over the seats a secondary 1000 seat rink, and a parkade in the initial announcement.

Toyota Stadiums in Fukurio has a pretty sweet roof setup for open air most of the time and completely covered but not sealed some times.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by #-3

I don't think anyone who has been following this thread should be surprised by insiders claiming there will be a football venue. Honestly I expect at min 20,000 seat hockey rink, 40,000 seat football stadium with no less than canopies over the seats a secondary 1000 seat rink, and a parkade in the initial announcement.

Toyota Stadiums in Fukurio has a pretty sweet roof setup for open air most of the time and completely covered but not sealed some times.

I'd be willing to bet significant money that the NHL arena capacity will be under 20k.

[#-3]

Originally Posted by flameswin

I'd be willing to bet significant money that the NHL arena capacity will be under 20k.

It will be vary close to 20K, but probably under.

At 18,600 the new Arena in Edmonton will be the smallest rink built for a preexisting Canadian team.

I would bet Money it will be larger than that.

[corporatejay]

Originally Posted by #-3

It will be vary close to 20K, but probably under.

At 18,600 the new Arena in Edmonton will be the smallest rink built for a preexisting Canadian team.

I would bet Money it will be larger than that.

I think king is already on record that it will be significantly smaller. More suites and club seats. Less bleeds.

[HOWITZER]

Originally Posted by #-3

It will be vary close to 20K, but probably under.

At 18,600 the new Arena in Edmonton will be the smallest rink built for a preexisting Canadian team.

I would bet Money it will be larger than that.

I wouldn't bet too much if I were you. ACC, GM Place, Centre Bell were all built relatively around the same time.

• ACC was an obvious upgrade on the gardens but focused primarily on boxes
• GM Place again was a big step up from Pacific Coliseum
• Centre Bell is the biggest arena in the NHL, and also a massive improvement on the old forum

All three of those buildings replaced existing buildings that were decades outdated from another era. Only the new arena in Edmonton and (soon) Calgary are replacing buildings that were built in the newer age where higher seat counts were better. Of the 14 NHL buildings opened since Centre Bell only 2 (BB&T and Tampa Bay) have had capacity above 19,000. The Saddledome is actually the 5th largest arena in the NHL currently. It is likely the new rink will drop towards league average in the 18k range with an increase in the number of corporate boxes, club seats, and a decrease in "press level" type seating.

[shermanator]

Originally Posted by J epworth

Exactly my point, I'm sure lots of people have that inclination towards soccer, never mind low-level professional soccer, but fill up Hellard, actually have a strong supporters group (Good work shermanator!) and suddenly it's a fun cheap activity in a location that is really easy to access for 1/3 of the city. It's too bad there can't be a great 2000 seat soccer specific stadium going up anywhere, but its really the people that make it a good atmosphere, and I've been to Hellard when it has been filled up for Bantam football and it's fun.

Strong supporters group is the key, as hopefully they can add to the atmosphere and truly make it an enjoyable experience. And not piss off too many soccer moms. Of course, I am biased as I'm part of the group trying to start it from scratch, (Nuje is another, any others?)

I agree that the fanbase is key, so again I will say that if you want higher level soccer in this town to work, you have to support it at the lower levels.

IMO, getting a proper soccer stadium is vital for Calgary Foothills to move to a higher level. Hellard is okay for the PDL as it's cheap to rent and in a decent location, and right now keeping the finances sorted is the #1 priority for the club. If the club plays a few games in Calgary Rugby Park I think that environment may turn out to be the better option.

The club is building a new training facility by Heather Glen which is a bad location but seems to be the only place they could get affordable land. maybe they can get seating for a few thousand up on the cheap on the outdoor pitch.

[CroFlames]

I hope the Flames just say #### it, let's make our rink the biggest in the NHL.

Outdo Bell Center by 1 seat

[Bill Bumface]

Originally Posted by CroFlames

I hope the Flames just say #### it, let's make our rink the biggest in the NHL.

Outdo Bell Center by 1 seat

Bell Centre sucks.

No thanks.

[CroFlames]

@Bill

So if the Bell Center sucks, what bearing does that have on our new rink? I didn't say let's build a replica of Bell Center.

We can build a top class rink that is bigger than theirs.

[Tyler]

I hope the Flames avoid building a cavernous rink and instead build one that optimizes sightlines and revenue

[PeteMoss]

Originally Posted by Thunderball

The comparable for MLS in Calgary are not the Kickers, Strikers, Storm, Mustangs, United, or other miscellaneous team in a second or third or fourth rate league, owned by some fly-by-night owner, its the Boomers, and that is an outdated sample size.

Even then, pointing to those failures would be like saying Calgary wouldn't support NHL because they let the Cowboys fold, since that ignores the underlying deficiencies, namely league deficiencies, stadia deficiencies and (not so much in the case of the Cowboys) past ownership deficiencies.

All those failed teams prove is that Calgary isn't a very good minor league city in general (aside from Hockey), which the Cannons, Outlaws, 88s, Vipers, etc. also attest to. Weather is a pretty big factor in the demise of all these clubs too.

In 1980-81, the Boomers got 10-11k on average at McMahon, Calgary at that time being roughly a third of the size it is today (~550k). McMahon was an improper facility then for soccer, complete with astroturf and football lines. What killed the Boomers wasn't attendance (as they were around the average), but a small-time owner and the fact that the entire league itself was in financial meltdown, ultimately folding completely three years later.

If the Flames build a covered/indoor 20k/40k seat stadium designed for both soccer and football, and if the Flames actually want a second major tenant... the strength of the Flames LP ownership group, the cache of the league to capture casual fans, and the relative lack of spring/summer sports competition put Calgary near the front of the MLS line. The stadium and ownership mean everything to MLS, and MLS means everything to the casual fan. I'm not sure NASL is "big league" enough to capture the casual sports fan, even with a shiny new stadium.

Plus, looking at MLS, who's really left in the US to expand to that doesn't have MLB to compete with and is in the West to reduce travel distances?

Sacramento, Albuquerque, San Antonio, Las Vegas. That's about it.

Aside from the largest markets, there often isn't enough market for MLB and MLS (see Atlanta, Miami, Tampa... though sounds like Miami and Atlanta may get another chance, and why Orlando got a team and Tampa didn't). Minnesota and St. Louis are actively seeking expansion, but one has to think MLB is a damning factor against those markets.

Sacramento is probably the best option out of those, but if MLS wants to expand to 28 or even 32 (sounds like the endgame is 28-32 like the other North American leagues), there's room for at least 3-4 more Western US/Canada teams. Especially seeing as no major league seems to want to be the first to have a Las Vegas club, for multiple reasons. (MLS just rejected them until "at least after 2018")

Plus, even if it was announced with the new stadium and that was announced tomorrow, Calgary MLS wouldn't play until 2020 at the earliest. At Calgary's growth rate, that's another 150-200k people in the metro by then, which, assuming current growth rates, puts Calgary easily into the largest 40 US/Canadian markets.

Either way, stoked if the indoor stadium talk is true.

Minnesota is likely getting a team (not exactly West, but would be in the West).

I'm not sure why MLB is a problem. Most of the teams in the league play in a city with a baseball team.

[Ruttiger]

Oilers fan living in Calgary but these projects are always intriguing to watch regardless of where - very curious to see what the plan looks like as it seems more obvious something concrete will actually be unveiled very soon.

A (possibly retractable) domed stadium would be a coup for the city and turn a 2 dozen event per year venue into something that hopefully can become a larger event destination.

[CroFlames]

I've said it a million times already, (maybe subconsciously I'm hoping KK reads this thread haha)

But I hope they build a world class arena/stadium & entertainment district that will be world class. Glendale is a perfect example of one.

A stadium that has a retractable roof is a major step to becoming "world class". Add in real grass to boot. Calgary gets enough sun.

[Zarley]

I'd hope that if public assistance is going towards this project, the City would make it conditional on the new rink having at least as many seats as the Saddledome.

[ken0042]

Originally Posted by CroFlames

But I hope they build a world class arena/stadium & entertainment district that will be world class. Glendale is a perfect example of one.

Here's the question, would you prefer something like Glendale; including an out of town location like Okotoks or Airdrie? Or would you prefer something a little more scaled down, but more central?

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by corporatejay

That's because seaman stadium is a10/10 facility.

Originally Posted by Dion

Being located in a small town that supports the team helps also.

If you want to know why the Calgary Vipers failed, look no further than Seaman Stadium.

Peter Young was a colossal dickbag toward the Dawgs. He viewed them as an enemy to be squashed, and since the city gave him the lease to Foothills, he did everything he could to drive the college team under. That caught the attention of the Seaman brothers, who put up the money to build that ballpark. And make no bones about it, when people like the Seamans take notice of how much of an a-hole you are, the entirety of Calgary's business community takes notice.

Young could have played nice, worked with everyone and both teams could have survived, and even thrived, in Calgary, with a new park.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by ken0042

Here's the question, would you prefer something like Glendale; including an out of town location like Okotoks or Airdrie? Or would you prefer something a little more scaled down, but more central?

Well, by virtue of the fact that the CFL is not the NFL, it will be scaled down regardless, but you do present a false dichotomy there. If the West Village has space to support the facilities the Flames seem to envision, then both goals can be achieved.

That said, CroFlames, don't believe for a second that the new rink will seat more than the Dome does. I would say the odds are that the new arena will probably be in the 18,000-18,500 range.