The Legend of Sam Bennett

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by jayswin

I love these two posts in succession.

You missed where I said I hope he has a game against SJ...I was thrilled with the winner.

Since when is saying a guy will get 45-55 points being a hater or not giving him credit?

[The Boy Wonder]

I don’t come around this forum much anymore.. but sometimes it’s nice to say atoadaso. Afukkin atoadaso

Benny looks confident, and whoever posted saying that coaches gave him leash to do what he needs to do are right. Huberdeau is elite but the fact the flames coaches refused to ever give Benny ice above mony and backs looks awfully stupid at this point. Still hope he mails gully a bag of dog turds for Christmas every year

[TheoFleury]

Originally Posted by The Boy Wonder

I don’t come around this forum much anymore.. but sometimes it’s nice to say atoadaso. Afukkin atoadaso

Benny looks confident, and whoever posted saying that coaches gave him leash to do what he needs to do are right. Huberdeau is elite but the fact the flames coaches refused to ever give Benny ice above mony and backs looks awfully stupid at this point. Still hope he mails gully a bag of dog turds for Christmas every year

Flames management has proven to be objectively terrible at evaluating and managing talent at the nhl level. Misjudged Monahan and Bennett so spectacularly to the point where there was no real way to mess it up and mismanage worse than they did

Rebuild started when they drafted Monahan at 6

Next year Bennett at 4

In the years that followed, they destroyed both assets to the point of being basically worthless, negative in Monahan's case. Rebuild dead right there realistically. Injuries did Monahan in but they had years to cash in on his inflated value before that. They just fell in love with him and saw him as foundational and the future captain. They had a first hand view for years and still got fooled and lost any chance of capitalizing on his once high value. Their bad. Injuries or not.

The idea that your franchise LW has to prop up your supposed 1C was just so misguided

They are paid millions to analyze and forecast and they screwed up the first two top 10 picks in the rebuild. Fans can be forgiven for getting caught up in counting stats. Management needs to see through that. You can't have a complementary 1C who defers to his winger and adds nothing except a decent shot and finding seams. Your 1C is the most important player on the team. Monahan put up numbers that were a mirage. He was basically cheechoo but a 1C! A parasite that was always middle 6 talent and probably should've been moved to LW in a perfect world. No contending team in nhl history was built around a complementary player as its 1C. Monahan was always a more likeable, less physical, better passing version of James Neal essentially. That BT didn't see that in 6 or 7 years is almost unbelievable in my eyes. Like... how?

They overachieved in 2015 and management fell for it. Did they think they pulled off the quickest scorched earth to contender rebuild in nhl history or something?

It's crazy but that 3v3 domination in 2015 (not really hockey imo and not something to look at when planning for playoff runs when 3v3 doesn't exist and 5v5 gets amped up) and a million comebacks in a lucky season tricked management. Time to excellerate the rebuild lol we've arrived! Trade the picks and sign whatever 30 year old middle 6 guy to big term and dollars to augment our average at best collection of talent. Let's do that a few times actually, ruin our cap and force us to go short term on Tkachuk because we have to spend to the cap, doesn't matter on who. Let's load up millions on depth because we gotta use the savings we generated grinding our young rfa's aav's down at the expense of term because reasons. And even though we've done all this let's still trade mid picks every year cause you need 10 dmen to survive a grueling 5 game playoff run

Good coaching hires would've went a long way. Hire Boudreau and you probably have something. Instead lets waste 7 years with the red headed goof, the proven loser from Carolina and a meek career assistant

If your team is average in talent, a top tier coach is needed above all else. Honestly I believe BT went the route he did because he was new and didn't want a personality like Boudreau overshadowing him. He wanted some easy to control yes men... just my opinion. Or perhaps, more likely, he just outsmarted himself a bunch of times thinking he was hiring the next bowman. Who knows really. Stupid no matter how you look it though

Two great trades in 8 years and a bunch of half measures and mistakes define almost a decade of meh. Too bad. Johnny's as good as kuch just doesn't have near the support. The potential was there it's crazy. They drafted a superstar in round 4 and a top pairing D in round 4 also. Thats really awesome. It's too bad about almost everything else

Imo Sutter was a better GM than BT. So was Feaster. He at least got something for fading players. BT loses top of the lineup guys for nothing and signs guys like Backlund, Coleman, Brouwer and Neal to contracts that would've been fair if they were like 27 instead of 30+ but ideally you are filling those spots with young players you draft. The scouting is actually good now. If I was BT in 2014 I would've made it my mission to ensure the scouts had 9 or 10 picks each year. Not 5 or 6. Just a huge difference. Draft and develop your own guys, it's not this complicated thing. It's about percentages and luck basically. If he accumulated picks for years instead of leaking them... totally different story.

[Jiri Hrdina]

I don’t know how you can blame management for Monahan given his injuries
How many top line guys has BT lost for nothing? Brodie and?
There is nothing objective about your post

[Poster]

The commentators last game said the Bennett deal was the best trade in franchise history.

They watch him every game.

Sucks for Flames fans but this is one that got away.

[Flamesfan05]

Treliving didn’t lose too many of his top players. He just sit there and watch them getting old and expensive without adding anything of value to help them win. This year is probably his last chance if Johnny walks.

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by TheoFleury

Flames management has proven to be objectively terrible at evaluating and managing talent at the nhl level. Misjudged Monahan and Bennett so spectacularly to the point where there was no real way to mess it up and mismanage worse than they did

Rebuild started when they drafted Monahan at 6

Next year Bennett at 4

In the years that followed, they destroyed both assets to the point of being basically worthless, negative in Monahan's case. Rebuild dead right there realistically. Injuries did Monahan in but they had years to cash in on his inflated value before that. They just fell in love with him and saw him as foundational and the future captain. They had a first hand view for years and still got fooled and lost any chance of capitalizing on his once high value. Their bad. Injuries or not.

The idea that your franchise LW has to prop up your supposed 1C was just so misguided

They are paid millions to analyze and forecast and they screwed up the first two top 10 picks in the rebuild. Fans can be forgiven for getting caught up in counting stats. Management needs to see through that. You can't have a complementary 1C who defers to his winger and adds nothing except a decent shot and finding seams. Your 1C is the most important player on the team. Monahan put up numbers that were a mirage. He was basically cheechoo but a 1C! A parasite that was always middle 6 talent and probably should've been moved to LW in a perfect world. No contending team in nhl history was built around a complementary player as its 1C. Monahan was always a more likeable, less physical, better passing version of James Neal essentially. That BT didn't see that in 6 or 7 years is almost unbelievable in my eyes. Like... how?

They overachieved in 2015 and management fell for it. Did they think they pulled off the quickest scorched earth to contender rebuild in nhl history or something?

It's crazy but that 3v3 domination in 2015 (not really hockey imo and not something to look at when planning for playoff runs when 3v3 doesn't exist and 5v5 gets amped up) and a million comebacks in a lucky season tricked management. Time to excellerate the rebuild lol we've arrived! Trade the picks and sign whatever 30 year old middle 6 guy to big term and dollars to augment our average at best collection of talent. Let's do that a few times actually, ruin our cap and force us to go short term on Tkachuk because we have to spend to the cap, doesn't matter on who. Let's load up millions on depth because we gotta use the savings we generated grinding our young rfa's aav's down at the expense of term because reasons. And even though we've done all this let's still trade mid picks every year cause you need 10 dmen to survive a grueling 5 game playoff run

Good coaching hires would've went a long way. Hire Boudreau and you probably have something. Instead lets waste 7 years with the red headed goof, the proven loser from Carolina and a meek career assistant

If your team is average in talent, a top tier coach is needed above all else. Honestly I believe BT went the route he did because he was new and didn't want a personality like Boudreau overshadowing him. He wanted some easy to control yes men... just my opinion. Or perhaps, more likely, he just outsmarted himself a bunch of times thinking he was hiring the next bowman. Who knows really. Stupid no matter how you look it though

Two great trades in 8 years and a bunch of half measures and mistakes define almost a decade of meh. Too bad. Johnny's as good as kuch just doesn't have near the support. The potential was there it's crazy. They drafted a superstar in round 4 and a top pairing D in round 4 also. Thats really awesome. It's too bad about almost everything else

Imo Sutter was a better GM than BT. So was Feaster. He at least got something for fading players. BT loses top of the lineup guys for nothing and signs guys like Backlund, Coleman, Brouwer and Neal to contracts that would've been fair if they were like 27 instead of 30+ but ideally you are filling those spots with young players you draft. The scouting is actually good now. If I was BT in 2014 I would've made it my mission to ensure the scouts had 9 or 10 picks each year. Not 5 or 6. Just a huge difference. Draft and develop your own guys, it's not this complicated thing. It's about percentages and luck basically. If he accumulated picks for years instead of leaking them... totally different story.

Second in the division based on points percentage, +29 goal differential.

The extent to which some will go to complain is pretty sad.

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by Poster

The commentators last game said the Bennett deal was the best trade in franchise history.

They watch him every game.

Sucks for Flames fans but this is one that got away.

It's hard to think of too many big trades involving the Cats:

Jokinen+Luongo for Parrish+Kvasha

Bure - who they also sold at a TDL for a decent haul

[BigRed]

Originally Posted by Poster

The commentators last game said the Bennett deal was the best trade in franchise history.

They watch him every game.

Sucks for Flames fans but this is one that got away.

It's definitely working out for them. But it was a gamble for both sides at the time -- for the Flames, who had given up on Bennet's potential (which at the time was fair TBH) and for Florida, who knew they had a high cap hit QO fir an asset that may or may not have been worth it.

Turned out he is. Playing with high end talent that suits his game certainly helps. Wasn't goign to happen here, but good for him.

[GranteedEV]

I am impressed by the Panthers' home attendance during their win over the Sharks. Maybe hockey in a miami suburb can be a longterm success if they can build a regular competitor during the Bennett Era

[flambers]

Key with Bennett he is playing with high end talent with the Panthers,

Flames have to many forwards that struggle to generate offense.

Totally different teams, I doubt Bennett would generate the offense with the Flames that he has with the Panthers.

[Gaskal]

He's going to get Hart nominations just because it was sarcastically suggested haha

[Strange Brew]

Yeah if you're a Panthers fan you can't believe you got this guy for the price you paid. They have none of the history, he was productive from the second he showed up.

About the only was this would have turned out different for the Flames was maybe if Darryl was coach at start of the year and Bennett gets a reset. That is what he needed here.

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by BigRed

It's definitely working out for them. But it was a gamble for both sides at the time -- for the Flames, who had given up on Bennet's potential (which at the time was fair TBH) and for Florida, who knew they had a high cap hit QO fir an asset that may or may not have been worth it.

Turned out he is. Playing with high end talent that suits his game certainly helps. Wasn't goign to happen here, but good for him.

I don't know that there was much risk for FLA. They were acquiring a proven playoff performer with toughness. Even if it didn't click immediately (ie. similar to what he was in CGY) they could have gone ahead with the QO or maybe negotiate a ~2x2. If it still wasn't working maybe they flip him again and recover some assets. At realistic worst it would be a slight overpay in the OG trade, but the odds are still that Bennett would play more games than Emil+2nd (though I'm not a fan of trading picks based on that idea).

The only risk for FLA was the opportunity cost of what else they could have done with those assets, but any other trade comes with risk/uncertainty, too.

[TheSquatch]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

I don’t know how you can blame management for Monahan given his injuries
How many top line guys has BT lost for nothing? Brodie and?
There is nothing objective about your post

If we wanted to blame management, if we did, we might spin it something like this: Management believes in 2015/16 that they have a window opening, Johnny, Monny, hopefully Bennett and maybe some fast skill coming, Emile Poirier or someone, I dunno. But it's looking good. So they push, they push to win, push for playoffs (mandate from ownership is playoffs every year). So a guy gets a broken finger - play through it, man. A guy gets a broken wrist, well, let's keep going, we're close. A guy gets chopped, broken, beaten down, injured every year because he's ridden too hard for too many miles year after year after year because the management team errs in its perception of how close the team is to being genuinely a contender. And the result is that there's no real playoff success, the guy is physically destroyed, and further results will be.... lucky? I dunno, maybe he'll recover yet.

But the idea was they had a stud #1 center and a scorer in Monahan, and Bennett was gonna be a bashing crashing 2C and the team was going to be big and deep and dangerous, only it didn't work out.

I have no idea how accurate that narrative is, the machinations of the Flames medical staff, nothing. But the desperate mandate of win, win, win (which produces results of mediocrity year after year) may have hurt Monahan. "Turns out your friend here is only mostly dead."

[powderjunkie]

^IMO the above is pretty much bang on. You hire Burke, that is what you get.

The problem wasn't so much the initial rebuild acceleration (Hamilton), but the doubling+tripling+etc down when it became increasingly clear the team was held together with duct tape and band-aids.

[FBI]

Just a few notables for Bennett:
- has more goals than any flame
- has as many goals as McDavid (in less games)
- has more goals than Stamkos, Pastrnak, Aho, Landeskog, Mackinnon just to name a few.
- ranks 5th in the league in goals per 60
- ranks 9th in the league in goals per game

[tvp2003]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

Yeah if you're a Panthers fan you can't believe you got this guy for the price you paid. They have none of the history, he was productive from the second he showed up.

About the only was this would have turned out different for the Flames was maybe if Darryl was coach at start of the year and Bennett gets a reset. That is what he needed here.

It’s not a stretch to think a lot of things might be different if Sutter landed here earlier. Just that way the cookie crumbles unfortunately.

[tvp2003]

A Darren Haynes tweet reminded me of Kipper’s dominance for this team, which started as soon as he arrived. We got him for a second rounder.

Here’s hoping either Heineman or the pick end up being as good as Marc-Edouard Vlasic which is who San Jose got with that pick.

[Heavy Jack]

Good for Bennett can’t hold anything against him and he’s added a lot of excitement to an exciting team. I can’t help but wonder if Treliving waited just a little longer before pulling the trigger on the trade. A little more time with Sutter could have shown the Bennett we are seeing now but at the end of the day we have to accept that a change of scenery and the chance to play with a leading scorer has done wonders for Sam and that’s ok.