[Signing] Gaudreau to Columbus (7 x $9.75 million)

[Bonded]

Gross probably got the most screwed. He doesn't have a huge book of clients and his biggest one made him look dumb.

[Cheese]

I think every scenario played out above is discussed fully in a board room long before they happen with the President the GM and his assistant and the Owner(s).
To think that these decisions are made arbitrarily, or without input from all of the hockey ops personnel is folly. Buy in must be total and agreed to. That's why Treliving hasn't been fired or why most GMs don't get fired after a bad year or decision.

Plans A, B and C all the way to Z are fait accompli long before they reach the stage that Johnny just went through with the team.
There is wiggle room for unforeseen issues, but I would think most scenarios have been played out long before.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Lonestar

He didn't want to be in Calgary and the agent got him within 750K/yr of the best offer. It's a lot of money, but I wouldn't call that a loss. The agent is a contractor to the player, if Johnny wanted to stay he wouldn't have told Gross to keep pushing and directed him to draft the rumored $80-84 mil contract from Calgary.

It's been talked about a bit, but holy smokes do I wish I didn't have border restrictions and 5 hr flights to contend with to see my family in Alberta. It's like me leaving Texas to be "close" to home in Vancouver. It's not down the street, but there's a dozen direct flights per day (only 90 min), no border restrictions, it opens up a lot of possibilities to see family that I've missed out on for 2+ years.

Surely telling the agent to draft an 84m deal with Calgary says the opposite than what you suggest.

I still think closer to home for 9.75 is not how he say this playing out. He thought was all the way home at 11. Remember everyone including Evolving Hockey saying he’d get Panarin money?

Edit- also don’t forget that it’s not “just” 750K less per year (I’d like to get just that) but he doesn’t get the final 10.5 million.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by PeteMoss

We'd need to trade Markstrom. Chicago was reasonable when Fleury played for them. When they had a bunch of AHL guys in net - they sucked.

19-21-0-5 with Fleury
9-21-0-7 with the other guys.

Theoretically in 3ish years, Wolf could be ready to take over as the #1. I know the Flames have been trying to home grow a goalie for a while, but Wolf just looks better than previous attempts.

Irving, Keetley, Berra, Ortio, and Gillies were all a lot more up and down in the AHL than Wolf has been.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Surely telling the agent to draft an 84m deal with Calgary says the opposite than what you suggest.

I still think closer to home for 9.75 is not how he say this playing out. He thought was all the way home at 11. Remember everyone including Evolving Hockey saying he’d get Panarin money?

Edit- also don’t forget that it’s not “just” 750K less per year (I’d like to get just that) but he doesn’t get the final 10.5 million.

Definite overestimating what he thought his market would be. Philly couldn’t even get involved likely nothing from Boston, Rangers either. Lowball offers from the Islanders and Devils. Pretty shocked he wasn’t able to secure $10M+.

[tvp2003]

Edit: deleted

Not going to speculate or make assumptions but that info is public, FWIW.

[Lonestar]

RE: Gio


That's what I mean, if he wanted to stay, he would have told Gross to pull the trigger on or before Tuesday with Calgary. I also don't place much credence on what twitter account speculates what. To me it's up to the player agent to have the best and most complete information readily available for his client during processes like this, if Gross is counting on Evolvehockey or whoever to gather information, yes we agree this is a massive loss for the agent and all of his current and future players. Apart from that? Johnny will be one year younger when he's negotiating his twilight year deal. He won't make up what he lost from leaving Calgary, but he did get what he wanted. He signed with one team and didn't want to sign with the Flames...



JG did mess this up though, he was indecisive and it's costing him wins, respect, and money.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

LOL Gross did not win. His client didn't get what he wanted either, unless you believe him about Columbus. He settled for a second rate choice at lower money than he expected.

That's one of the many reasons Gross was trying to do damage control the next day.

Gaudreau got everything he wanted. He wanted out of Calgary and he wanted a hefty raise. He got both. Did Gross get the big $10.5M salary that Calgary offered? No, but he did achieve the goal that Gaudreau demanded late in the game, and did so by taking a $750K haircut, which is almost covered in tax difference between the two cities. Gaudreau settled for someplace he and his family were okay being, and for a lot of money. What did Calgary get out of this? The loss of their best player. It's clear who won. Please explain how Calgary came out of this positively in any shape or form.

[Mathgod]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

Gaudreau got everything he wanted. He wanted out of Calgary and he wanted a hefty raise. He got both. Did Gross get the big $10.5M salary that Calgary offered? No, but he did achieve the goal that Gaudreau demanded late in the game, and did so by taking a $750K haircut, which is almost covered in tax difference between the two cities. Gaudreau settled for someplace he and his family were okay being, and for a lot of money. What did Calgary get out of this? The loss of their best player. It's clear who won. Please explain how Calgary came out of this positively in any shape or form.

You're not taking into account the extra year of $10.5M that he certainly won't get when he goes to the market as a 36 year old. You're also not taking into account the US/Canada dollar exchange rate (since he bought everything in Canadian dollars while in Canada).

Losing Johnny is not ideal, but the silver lining is that it does free up the $10.5M in cap space they would have spent on him. Teams weren't exactly tripping over themselves to sign him when he went to FA; even Columbus wasn't willing to pay $10M per year. That should tell us something.

[PuckDemon]

Originally Posted by tvp2003

Not going to speculate or make assumptions but that info is public, FWIW.

Sure, you'll just leave it up to other people to speculate.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Mathgod

You're not taking into account the extra year of $10.5M that he certainly won't get when he goes to the market as a 36 year old. You're also not taking into account the US/Canada dollar exchange rate (since he bought everything in Canadian dollars while in Canada).

Losing Johnny is not ideal, but the silver lining is that it does free up the $10.5M in cap space they would have spent on him. Teams weren't exactly tripping over themselves to sign him when he went to FA; even Columbus wasn't willing to pay $10M per year. That should tell us something.

The exchange rate is an interesting angle. Never considered the benefit of that. The extra year is kind of irrelevant since Gaudreau wanted out. It's not like something he could use as leverage with another team, just a benefit to stay with the Flames wince didn't seem possible. Not sure I see a silver lining in the cap space. Cap space only has value if you can spend it.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

Gaudreau got everything he wanted. He wanted out of Calgary and he wanted a hefty raise. He got both. Did Gross get the big $10.5M salary that Calgary offered? No, but he did achieve the goal that Gaudreau demanded late in the game, and did so by taking a $750K haircut, which is almost covered in tax difference between the two cities. Gaudreau settled for someplace he and his family were okay being, and for a lot of money. What did Calgary get out of this? The loss of their best player. It's clear who won. Please explain how Calgary came out of this positively in any shape or form.

You believe that Columbus is the organization Johnny wanted to go to the most?

Johnny also handled this in a way that tarnished his legacy in Calgary which is almost certainly something he didn’t want despite your claims he got everything he wanted.

[PuckDemon]

Unless he absolutely falls a off a cliff, sure Johnny wouldn't get 10.5M as a 36-year old, but I wouldn't be surprised to see him get 6M. So after taxes, he lost out on 2 or 3 million in take home pay? Not great, but not disastrous either. Gaudreau did take an L, mostly because he didn't land in Philly and how his legacy in Calgary is now dead.

I don't see how the CAD/USD exchange rate affects things. Cost of living is cost of living. It's a regional thing, not so much currency worth. USD is worth more, but CAD prices on goods are also higher accordingly.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Royle9

Johnny said it all his interviews thus far he wanted to be closer to home, yet turned down this NJ offer because? Again, one would assume he's lied about that now too.

Don't forget Jarmo said Johnny came to them and surprised them with wanting Columbus which is the curve ball in all of this.

The Columbus offer was higher. And again, Jarmo made an offer to Gaudreau as soon as the UFA window opened.

* Guadreau and his family decided they wanted him to play in the Eastern U.S..

* Due to teams having trouble clearing cap space (and his widely-known geographical prefence), only two teams made offers.

* He took what is believed to be the better offer.

This really isn’t as mysterious as people are making it out to be.

[tvp2003]

Originally Posted by PuckDemon

Sure, you'll just leave it up to other people to speculate.

Just presenting info that might be relevant to the discussion.

Besides, there are plenty of folks around here who are more than happy to speculate away, based on the most tenuous information. I personally don’t put too much stock in that whole argument, if it means anything.

[PuckDemon]

Originally Posted by tvp2003

Just presenting info that might be relevant to the discussion.

Besides, there are plenty of folks around here who are more than happy to speculate away, based on the most tenuous information. I personally don’t put too much stock in that whole argument, if it means anything.

Why would you drop info that you know could be stretched into something negative, especially if you recognize how tenuous it is?

It's like the classic "I'm just asking questions bro, I didn't actually argue either way" style of keeping your own hands clean while feeding the fire.

I don't think it's very cool to go through his wife's twitter history to dredge up something so vague and present it in an insinuating manner.

[Cecil Terwilliger]

Originally Posted by tvp2003

Just presenting info that might be relevant to the discussion.

Besides, there are plenty of folks around here who are more than happy to speculate away, based on the most tenuous information. I personally don’t put too much stock in that whole argument, if it means anything.

She’s a health care professional retweeting important healthcare tweets. What’s to speculate on?

Did you vet her other 7150 tweets for anything else covid related? Maybe she was frequently retweeting all kinds of covid related health care info.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

The Columbus offer was higher. And again, Jarmo made an offer to Gaudreau as soon as the UFA window opened.

* Guadreau and his family decided they wanted him to play in the Eastern U.S..

* Due to teams having trouble clearing cap space (and his widely-known geographical prefence), only two teams made offers.

* He took what is believed to be the better offer.

This really isn’t as mysterious as people are making it out to be.

Yup. The only mysterious thing is why (reportedly) Gaudreau instructed his agent to make a last-minute counteroffer, and then backed out when the team accepted. And the answer to that mystery will be found between Gaudreau's own ears, not Treliving's, his agent's, or anyone else's.

[tvp2003]

Fair enough. If that was crossing a personal line I have no problem deleting the info.

I do think someone’s public social media accounts are fair game, I specifically didn’t post the link to her account, just the info that I thought was relevant. But that’s a discussion for another time.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Lonestar

RE: Gio


That's what I mean, if he wanted to stay, he would have told Gross to pull the trigger on or before Tuesday with Calgary. I also don't place much credence on what twitter account speculates what. To me it's up to the player agent to have the best and most complete information readily available for his client during processes like this, if Gross is counting on Evolvehockey or whoever to gather information, yes we agree this is a massive loss for the agent and all of his current and future players. Apart from that? Johnny will be one year younger when he's negotiating his twilight year deal. He won't make up what he lost from leaving Calgary, but he did get what he wanted. He signed with one team and didn't want to sign with the Flames...



JG did mess this up though, he was indecisive and it's costing him wins, respect, and money.

It wasn’t a twitter account. And it rang completely true when placed alongside the other reports, what Gross said, what Treliving said. Zero people have denied it.