The Legend of Sam Bennett

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by dino7c

We are getting into hindsight logic...every team that didn't win the cup should have tanked all those years in hindsight. They would have been better for it.

It's sports, teams should try and win

Trying to win too soon is a mistake that usually results in never winning that big.

I don’t think there is a single person that can argue that Gulutzan was a good coach and good for Bennett’s development

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by dino7c

We are getting into hindsight logic...every team that didn't win the cup should have tanked all those years in hindsight. They would have been better for it.

It's sports, teams should try and win

It's the reality of a salary cap league where trades rarely happen and you can't buy winning teams in free agency. The reason almost all of the top teams are American is because it's just easier to take their lumps in those markets. The Leafs have been really the only Canadian team that did a proper tank job and for the most part it's worked for them as they landed a handful of young players that they could build around. They may never win the cup but they will be an annual contender for some time and that's the easiest road to winning a cup. If the Toronto market can handle it I fail to see why the Calgary can't. I could stomach finishing 30-32nd for a few years. In fact I would embrace it.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

Trying to win too soon is a mistake that usually results in never winning that big.

I don’t think there is a single person that can argue that Gulutzan was a good coach and good for Bennett’s development

14-15 was the most fun I've had in a Flames season in the last 15 years.

But it's probably still the worst thing that happened to the long term success of this franchise.

The team was supposed to suck that season, and if they suck that year they probably don't make a bunch of win now moves like the Brouwer signing etc and continue to try to patiently build through the draft.

That season threw the whole re-build plan out the window. We had won a round in the playoffs with a bunch of players on ELCs, that season's results made it seem like it made sense to push some chips in to add pieces to that roster.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

14-15 was the most fun I've had in a Flames season in the last 15 years.

But it's probably still the worst thing that happened to the long term success of this franchise.

The team was supposed to suck that season, and if they suck that year they probably don't make a bunch of win now moves like the Brouwer signing etc and continue to try to patiently build through the draft.

That season threw the whole re-build plan out the window. We had won a round in the playoffs with a bunch of players on ELCs, that season's results made it seem like it made sense to push some chips in to add pieces to that roster.

I agree that whole season was a blast. 10 wins coming from behind in the 3rd, a superstar duo emerging in Monahan and Gaudreau, some vets playing amazing in Hudler, Gio, Wideman, guys entering their primes showing very well in Backlund and Brodie. Cherry on top was Ferland’s coming out party in the playoffs and Bennett stepping in and making a difference right away

I look at the Brad Trelviing must go thread and I do sympathize with him in how he went about building his team. I think it was very believable that Gaudreau and Monahan had some solid similarities to the Kane and Toews duo and if this te could build some talent around them they had a window to win. By the time Tkachuk was drafted Monahan and Gaudreau were on their second contracts making big money as was Hamilton.

That is where I view the failure of the rebuild was more a result of the top players not living up to their perceived potential. One thing we have seen is if Gaudreau is playing to a 100pt pace the Flames will be in the mix for 1st place in the division

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by dino7c

We are getting into hindsight logic...every team that didn't win the cup should have tanked all those years in hindsight. They would have been better for it.

It's sports, teams should try and win

Disagree - every cup winner in the cap era has had stepping stones of playoff success before breaking through.

It's not about tanking vs. trying to win, it's about trying to win the "right" way (ie. sustainably and with room for further growth) vs. treating Tuesday nights in November like they're game 7 of the SCF

In other words, don't trick yourself into believing you're better than you are. Put your young players in position to succeed...sometimes that means sheltering them, sometimes that means giving them critical responsibility late in a tied game.

If you find yourself in contention despite some costly 'rookie' errors, then it's a good indicator that you're ready to progress and can move the slider towards the 'win-now' side for a stretch run. Getting demolished in the playoffs should guide you to take a step back and be patient (not trade a on of picks to patch holes).

If you can only find yourself in contention by playing your starter on back to backs and ignoring your best forwards' flaws because they manage to deliver just enough offence to get you into the dance it's an obvious recipe for disaster.

of course this all applies only to rebuilding teams...if you're PIT or WAS you do everything you can to exploit the window you have

[Manhattanboy]

That game 6 against VAN was epic. Down early by 2 goals at the Dome. Hartley changes goalies.

Mony and Johnny score.

In the third Stajan gets the tying or go-ahead goal.

Had to have been one of the biggest goals of his career and one of my favourite Flames goals. He was mic'd up on the play. Love watching the replay.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

That is where I view the failure of the rebuild was more a result of the top players not living up to their perceived potential. One thing we have seen is if Gaudreau is playing to a 100pt pace the Flames will be in the mix for 1st place in the division

And not having an elite coach.

This core without Gio, Bennett, and with Monahan as a shell of his former self is on a 100 point pace.

Peters was a slightly above average coach (and horrible human) and he was able to get this group to win the conference in the regular season.

This core at it's full potential, with Sutter behind the bench in 18-19, probably would have done some real damage.

But all it takes is a couple of little mistakes and the window can get slammed shut.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by Manhattanboy

That game 6 against VAN was epic. Down early by 2 goals at the Dome. Hartley changes goalies.

Mony and Johnny score.

In the third Stajan gets the tying or go-ahead goal.

Had to have been one of the biggest goals of his career and one of my favourite Flames goals. He was mic'd up on the play. Love watching the replay.

Best live sporting experience of my life

We went down 3-0 actually
- Ferland scores late in the 1st
- Monahan scores early in the second
- Johnny ties it up
- Canucks take the lead
- Hudler ties it up
- Stajan with the game winner
- Hudler and Ferland with the empty net goal for the 7-4 win

I was a hot house member during this season and was offered seats in the greens for $500/ticket but it came with food and booze and it was a Saturday night. I ended up going with 4 other friends and at 3-0 it was such a deflated feeling dropping that much cash but what a story book ending.

I have watched the highlights of that game more than any other game to put me back in the dome that night

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

It's the reality of a salary cap league where trades rarely happen and you can't buy winning teams in free agency. The reason almost all of the top teams are American is because it's just easier to take their lumps in those markets. The Leafs have been really the only Canadian team that did a proper tank job and for the most part it's worked for them as they landed a handful of young players that they could build around. They may never win the cup but they will be an annual contender for some time and that's the easiest road to winning a cup. If the Toronto market can handle it I fail to see why the Calgary can't. I could stomach finishing 30-32nd for a few years. In fact I would embrace it.

sorry wat? Leafs haven't won a playoff round since when?

They will likely play the Panthers or Lightning in round one this season and lose their all star goalie in the offseason because they have ZERO cap space

Even the Flames core has won a playoff round and a play in...Leafs core has done nothing but choke

[OptimalTates]

Belfour was last Leafs goalie to win a series lol

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

And not having an elite coach.

This core without Gio, Bennett, and with Monahan as a shell of his former self is on a 100 point pace.

Peters was a slightly above average coach (and horrible human) and he was able to get this group to win the conference in the regular season.

This core at it's full potential, with Sutter behind the bench in 18-19, probably would have done some real damage.

But all it takes is a couple of little mistakes and the window can get slammed shut.

They also have a major upgrade in goal

[JBR]

Let us all channel that energy to the Legend of Sam Bennett tonight into a 5 goal, 2 assist, 2 fight performance against the Pissy's.

[dino7c]

yeah there will be zero butt hurt if Sam scores 5 tonight

[CSharp]

I still don't get the hype especially when Adam Fox of all people won the Norris last season and will likely win it again at the end of this season! How the eff did that happen when the Flames gave away two top d-man and a power forward for Hanifin (cough) and Lindholm. Ok, I like Lindholm but for crying out loud! Tonight's Oilers vs Panthers will show either why the Oilers suck so bad or why the Flames should've tanked harder to get both Drai and McJesus.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by CSharp

I still don't get the hype especially when Adam Fox of all people won the Norris last season and will likely win it again at the end of this season! How the eff did that happen when the Flames gave away two top d-man and a power forward for Hanifin (cough) and Lindholm. Ok, I like Lindholm but for crying out loud! Tonight's Oilers vs Panthers will show either why the Oilers suck so bad or why the Flames should've tanked harder to get both Drai and McJesus.

green text?

[Jiri Hrdina]

"gave away"?

[IamNotKenKing]

Originally Posted by CSharp

I still don't get the hype especially when Adam Fox of all people won the Norris last season and will likely win it again at the end of this season! How the eff did that happen when the Flames gave away two top d-man and a power forward for Hanifin (cough) and Lindholm. Ok, I like Lindholm but for crying out loud! Tonight's Oilers vs Panthers will show either why the Oilers suck so bad or why the Flames should've tanked harder to get both Drai and McJesus.

Are ya pissed or high or what’s your problem?

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

He hasn’t played consistently with anyone and has almost no time with Gaudreau or Tkachuk (and no time with Lindholm or Backlund) and the stats say whenever he plays with anyone outside of the Lewis he’s not a liability defensively at all. The only non-Lewis combo that is below 50% is the 2% of the time he played with Mangiapane and Gaudreau (which I can’t even recall since it was 2-3 shifts).

https://frozenpool.dobbersports.com/...s/sean-monahan

I think it’s a giant cop out to blame Trevor Lewis for Monahan’s problems, Monahan is the center, he’s the one below the hashmarks defending, the slot presence and generally speaking, the primary backchecker defending the rush. Conversely, Trevor Lewis is the winger with much less defensive responsibilities. He may not be anything special, but the guy has 2 Stanley Cup rings with Darryl.

All this reminds me of how CP use to routinely crush Gaudreau for his soft, porous defensive play throughout his entire career. Then he finally gets away from Monahan to play with a legit, defensively responsible center and all of a sudden he’s now “one of the best 200 foot players in the league” as per his coach. It’s not just a coincidence, there’s some correlation here.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Classic_Sniper

I think it’s a giant cop out to blame Trevor Lewis for Monahan’s problems, Monahan is the center, he’s the one below the hashmarks defending, the slot presence and generally speaking, the primary backchecker defending the rush. Conversely, Trevor Lewis is the winger with much less defensive responsibilities. He may not be anything special, but the guy has 2 Stanley Cup rings with Darryl.

All this reminds me of how CP use to routinely crush Gaudreau for his soft, porous defensive play throughout his entire career. Then he finally gets away from Monahan to play with a legit, defensively responsible center and all of a sudden he’s now “one of the best 200 foot players in the league” as per his coach. It’s not just a coincidence, there’s some correlation here.

How is it a cop out to say that whenever he plays with anyone else, Monahan has positive stats? No one is blaming Lewis. It’s just a bad fit. But what it says is that Monahan isn’t the defensive black hole you claim.

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

How is it a cop out to say that whenever he plays with anyone else, Monahan has positive stats? No one is blaming Lewis. It’s just a bad fit. But what it says is that Monahan isn’t the defensive black hole you claim.

What exactly am I claiming here? I’m saying Monahan is not good defensively and hasn’t been good this season either. I’m not saying he’s the worst defensive player in the league here. My major criticism of him is pretty simple, he isn’t producing enough at even strength, especially at his salary, then to couple that with the 2nd most goals allowed on the team. That’s not helping the team.

I mean heck, the dude is currently sporting the team’s worst +/- and that’s not even the first time he’s been dead last on the team in that department. He’s also a career -40, not a good look for a team that’s been trying to get to playoffs every season.

Actually, now that I’m looking at it, Gaudreau somehow sits at a career +41. That’s an 81 goal differential, 60 if we’re looking at the same time frame. I’m not even sure how that’s possible since these 2 have been joined at the hip almost their entire careers. Maybe someone else with more time on their hands can do a deep dive on this little nugget.