Brad Treliving needs to go

[dino7c]

Trading late picks isn't going all in

Vancouver traded a 1st and 2 2nds last year to have Markstrom steal a round and then get pounded

Oilers traded 2 seconds to lose in the play in round

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by Flamesfan05

Exactly in 7 yrs and we are no better if not in worse shape

Treliving has to go ASAP

That's not going to do anything to improve the team in the short or long-term. No desperation moves, but IMO the best course is to let Brad steer things until Xmas and then re-assess.

Originally Posted by Hackey

I think that miracle first half of a season a couple years ago has put in people's head that this is a good team underachieving. That year we had career years from everyone. This year I do think the team underperformed but I do believe this team is far closer to what they actually are than the team from 2 years ago. The fact that they played very inconsistent after the All Star break that year, got destroyed in the playoffs, continued to play inconsistent, folded in all the big games since, etc. We need to stop fooling ourselves that this team is anything but a bubble team at best. If that's the goal we're in a very sad place if we're gonna continue to use picks in an attempt to maybe grab the 8th seed. I can't believe people are fine with this constant mediocrity from this organization. Tear it down and build it back up properly before you're forced to do it in a few years down the road anyways.

That entire year they had a 0.586 pt% against the PAC division (the weakest in the league), which works out to a 96 pt pace.

14/31 games post All-star were divisional; a higher proportion than the rest of the season. We got 15 pts in those 14 games; vs. 19pts in the 15 Pacific games pre-ASB (not a huge difference).

We milked pts out of division, but weren't great against a lot of bad teams who saw us enough to game plan specifically.

[Flamesfan05]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Trading late picks isn't going all in

Vancouver traded a 1st and 2 2nds last year to have Markstrom steal a round and then get pounded

Oilers traded 2 seconds to lose in the play in round

It is if you keep doing it so that your prospects are the joke of the league.


Treliving does not have monopoly on stupidity,

[Flamesfan05]

Originally Posted by powderjunkie

That's not going to do anything to improve the team in the short or long-term. No desperation moves, but IMO the best course is to let Brad steer things until Xmas and then re-assess.




.

So you basically want 7.5 yrs instead of 7. What is the extra .5 yrs is going to do if you do not already know in 7?

[Hackey]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Trading late picks isn't going all in

Vancouver traded a 1st and 2 2nds last year to have Markstrom steal a round and then get pounded

Oilers traded 2 seconds to lose in the play in round

Whats your point? Because they make dumb decisions its okay if we do the same?

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Flamesfan05

It is if you keep doing it so that your prospects are the joke of the league.


Treliving does not have monopoly on stupidity,

I don’t think the Flames prospects are the joke of the league
Not sure why everything has to be exaggerated

[Flamesfan05]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

I don’t think the Flames prospects are the joke of the league
Not sure why everything has to be exaggerated

Except for a couple guys, they are

Most people rank them at or near the bottom

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Flamesfan05

Except for a couple guys, they are

Most people rank them at or near the bottom

Does that make them a joke?

[Flamesfan05]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Does that make them a joke?

Yes, people at the bottom are often laughed at

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by Flamesfan05

Yes, people at the bottom are often laughed at

That’s an interesting world view, friend.

[GioforPM]

Flamesfan05 is not a Flames fan. Do not engage.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Trading late picks isn't going all in

Vancouver traded a 1st and 2 2nds last year to have Markstrom steal a round and then get pounded

Oilers traded 2 seconds to lose in the play in round

TB traded a first to get Barclay Goodrow (and a 3rd), a first to get Blake Coleman and a first and first/second (conditions) plus 3 players to get McDonough and Miller.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

TB traded a first to get Barclay Goodrow (and a 3rd), a first to get Blake Coleman and a first and first/second (conditions) plus 3 players to get McDonough and Miller.

The Lightning got the 3rd in the Goodrow trade. It was a 1st and a AHL contract dump for a 3rd and Goodrow. So they basically planned on moving down 45 spots to get Goodrow.

I think that fans would have less of a problem with the draft pick fire sale if the Flames were in the same position as the Lightning. Tougher to swallow when you are somewhere between the 14th and 23rd best team in the league.

[bubbsy]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Does that make them a joke?

Not necessarily a "joke", to your point.

Being rated near the bottom, in of itself, isn't a terrible thing. However, if you look at the highly average to low level of results over the past 7 years, mediocre at best, one would hope that they team continued picking up assets, even if it wasn't thru top10 picks.

The fact that the flames have had a mediocre 7 years, yet, have a below mediocre prospect pool is absolutely another data point when judging this front office.

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by chedder

^ almost nobody in this thread is arguing it will be a retool. That's pretty obvious with the Sutter hire. How big a shakeup and who is shipped out and brought in is the unknown.

The question and the thread is about whether Treliving should be the one to attempt it. Most, including me, say a big no to that. He has failed to make this team markedly better. Playoff performance has been a joke and our two stars will likely be playing elsewhere in 2 years or less. He hasn't built the team to contend consistently, let alone once.

How Johnny and Matthew are handled is going to dictate the future of this team and I don't want Treliving anywhere near those decisions.

Don’t really care to wade into the ‘retool’ vs ‘rebuild’ discussion, but it seems like you are saying no one is arguing the flames are going to rebuild, because of the Sutter hiring. In that case, I agree. I do think this team is going to make one or two significant roster moves. Call that a retool, or whatever. But that is what I think will happen.

Back to Treliving, I think it’s likely he’s the guy who is going to be making those moves. First of all, and I’ve said this for months now, but he has 2 years left on his deal. If the Flames fire him, is he the only one? What about Conroy, Pascsl, Maloney? Even if I’m squinting, I doubt the ownership has much of an appetite to pay Treliving for two more years while paying for his replacement. Unless they go with another first time GM at low cost. Which would be pretty Flamesy.

Second, I would imagine Treliving and hockey ops has a plan in place that has been established for some time now. I believe Friedman said shortly after the TDL that a lot of groundwork had been done for this offseason. Fire Treliving, you’re starting over and I bet it gets worse before it gets better. The first thing most GM’s say when they get the job; ‘we want to see what we have’, in other words do not expect much. This is a pivotal offseason for the team. Throwing someone new into the GM’s position is a shortsighted strategy.

Treliving’s going to get one more year to correct course. The true sign that his time may be coming to an end is whether or not the flames hire a POHO. If there is a new GM, he will have had the year to evaluate.

[Calgary4LIfe]

Treliving has undoubtedly mortgaged the future in trying to 'win now'. Why? Is this team a contender? Has this team ever been a contender? Seems like to me it has shown itself to be nothing more than a bubble team.


I forgot which poster made the post (and I forgot which thread it was made too, or I would quote it), but it showed that there were only 4 teams in the NHL that picked less often in the draft (or was that in the first 3 rounds? I forgot now) than the Flames did. I remember they were all contending teams/Stanley Cup winners.


Not damning? Considering that the Flames have had 3 single playoff game wins over the last 6 seasons, I would say that's fairly damning.



I trust this team to draft. One of the better drafting teams in the league.



Sutter got vilified for constantly trading picks, but even under his management, this team didn't make a selection in the first round only once. At least you can argue that he kept trying to feed a team that actually proved itself to be good in the playoffs, no?


This team better be sure on the trades that they are likely to make this off-season. Players like Tkachuk, Gaudreau, Monahan and Giordano that many people here feel that they should move on from. There are no players even close to those ceilings in the system right now. Maybe a few exceed expectations, but there isn't a lot of skill coming up through the ranks. This team simply hasn't picked often enough, and this team can't afford to trade more players away for pennies on the dollar.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

The Lightning got the 3rd in the Goodrow trade. It was a 1st and a AHL contract dump for a 3rd and Goodrow. So they basically planned on moving down 45 spots to get Goodrow.

I think that fans would have less of a problem with the draft pick fire sale if the Flames were in the same position as the Lightning. Tougher to swallow when you are somewhere between the 14th and 23rd best team in the league.

Well sure, the Flames fans would be happier if the trades worked out. But is that an issue of trading the first, or who it was traded for?

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Well sure, the Flames fans would be happier if the trades worked out. But is that an issue of trading the first, or who it was traded for?

Well the Lightning made their trades when they were the best team or one of the top 3 or 4 teams in hockey. The Flames traded their first and second round picks when they were hoping to be able to compete for the final playoff spot. Slightly different circumstances.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

Well the Lightning made their trades when they were the best team or one of the top 3 or 4 teams in hockey. The Flames traded their first and second round picks when they were hoping to be able to compete for the final playoff spot. Slightly different circumstances.

2 years after those trades, Calgary finished first in the division and west, second in the league. And I dare say if the Hamonic trade had been for a different player they might still be up there. Again, it was the player acquired, not trading a pick per se.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

2 years after those trades, Calgary finished first in the division and west, second in the league. And I dare say if the Hamonic trade had been for a different player they might still be up there. Again, it was the player acquired, not trading a pick per se.

Oh man, whoever said it recently was right. That half season of magic is going to be written on the tombstone of many Flames fans when defending the failure of this build.

"But 2019!!".