2021/2022 Trade Speculation and Rumours

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

If we overpay Gaudreau, maybe we won't be signing plugs and unnecessary filler like Gudbanson every off-season.

I tend to agree. What's the point of saving a million or two annually if it's going to be spent on depth players that can't play?

[bdubbs]

Agree. Pay our stars what they're worth, stop signing expensive veteran depth every off season. Let young 3rd / 4th liners earn their league min contracts instead.

[bax]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

If we overpay Gaudreau, maybe we won't be signing plugs and unnecessary filler like Gudbanson every off-season.

There was an article in the Athletic a couple months back discussing contract values (I forget who wrote it) but they actually made the argument that the Oilers would be a better team today if they just gave McDavid the max contract because it would have saved them from some of their terrible moves lol

[ForeverFlameFan]

Plot twist, Gudbranson was only signed to ensure Treliving didn’t go overboard. He then proceeds to sign Johnny to an 8.7 (6.75 + 1.95) x 6

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by TOfan

Just because you can't see the plan doesn't mean there isn't one. It is as though people like to think this organization is run by seventh graders.

Maybe the plan is start the season with the intent of competing for the playoffs. If that fails, start the rebuild. It's a win-win as far as I'm concerned. Enjoy the ride, man. It's only sports. There will be highs and lows.

Is there some evidence to support that there is a good plan in place? What you're describing seems unlikely, when has this organization ever willingly gone early into a rebuild? And certainly contradicts the rumors that they are in on Eichel.

[Bingo]

Gaudreau had a team friendly deal?

Didn't he and Monahan pretty much sign similar deals to Scheifele and McKinnon in the same summer?

Treliving has had some great RFA contracts, and those two deals certainly earned a check mark. But they didn't become great deals until the Oilers moved the bar on the Draisaitl contract a year later.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

Is there some evidence to support that there is a good plan in place? What you're describing seems unlikely, when has this organization ever willingly gone early into a rebuild? And certainly contradicts the rumors that they are in on Eichel.

I think you have a better angle to that with the word "good".

He said there is a plan, as someone said there isn't.

I think it quite likely that there's always a plan in place, but that doesn't mean the fan base in general would call it a good one.

Either way can we add "smartest guy in the room" to the same filter that make oilfans.ca impossible to read?

[Saqe]

Regarding Colombus, I'm a big fan of Jarmo. If you guys remember what that organization was before he got there, they never made the playoffs and were maybe the worst franchice in the league the first 15 years of their existance. Now they're at least respectable and have built an identity of being a blue collar type of team. It's not his fault that guys don't want to play there. Yeah the call to not sell Panarin at the deadline was gutsy and had a small chance to pay off but at least you gave the fans something to cheer for and rewarded the team for making the playoffs. He since has recouped the picks by trading guys like Foligno and Savard.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Bingo

I think you have a better angle to that with the word "good".

He said there is a plan, as someone said there isn't.

I think it quite likely that there's always a plan in place, but that doesn't mean the fan base in general would call it a good one.

Either way can we add "smartest guy in the room" to the same filter that make oilfans.ca impossible to read?

We might be nit picking a little. If a fan complains that there's no plan, is that meaningfully different than saying the plan is bad, or is unachievable or seems to lack commitment?

As an outsider, it sure seems like the fundamental problem is the lack of commitment to a clear direction. I guess you can hold out hope that the org is three steps ahead of us and we're headed into a rapid rebuild but that really seems like blind faith.

Sometimes things are exactly as they appear.

Personally I have more time for the "no plan" criticism than the "smartest guy in the room" stuff. If Treliving sounded like Darryl Sutter no one would say that.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Saqe

Regarding Colombus, I'm a big fan of Jarmo. If you guys remember what that organization was before he got there, they never made the playoffs and were maybe the worst franchice in the league the first 15 years of their existance. Now they're at least respectable and have built an identity of being a blue collar type of team. It's not his fault that guys don't want to play there. Yeah the call to not sell Panarin at the deadline was gutsy and had a small chance to pay off but at least you gave the fans something to cheer for and rewarded the team for making the playoffs. He since has recouped the picks by trading guys like Foligno and Savard.

What have they actually accomplished?

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

As an outsider, it sure seems like the fundamental problem is the lack of commitment to a clear direction.

Is this the case though or is it just there is a commitment to a direction that fans don't agree with?
I would argue the problem is the organization is committed to the wrong goal: to get in the playoffs rather than build a club that can compete for a long period of time in a sustainable fashion.

I don't know if they aren't committed to a clear direction. Seems like they are. A lot of us just don't like that direction

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Gaudreau had a team friendly deal?

Didn't he and Monahan pretty much sign similar deals to Scheifele and McKinnon in the same summer?

Treliving has had some great RFA contracts, and those two deals certainly earned a check mark. But they didn't become great deals until the Oilers moved the bar on the Draisaitl contract a year later.

Do you not forget MacKinnon scored 52pts in 72 games the season before he signed that deal? Schiefele scored over 15 goals and 50pts for the first time in his career the year before he signed that deal.

Johnny had 64pts and was a Calder finalist as a rookie and was 6th in league scoring with 78pts in 79 games as a sophomore before he signed his deal. Johnny had more recency bias and hype at the time. Colorado got lucky that in year 2 of the deal MacKinnon went from a guy who averaged 51pts a season in his first 4 to a guy who averages 96pts a year over his last 4.

[Scroopy Noopers]

Nobody who watches hockey in any capacity thought MacKinnon was a 50 point player, at any point.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

We might be nit picking a little. If a fan complains that there's no plan, is that meaningfully different than saying the plan is bad, or is unachievable or seems to lack commitment?

As an outsider, it sure seems like the fundamental problem is the lack of commitment to a clear direction. I guess you can hold out hope that the org is three steps ahead of us and we're headed into a rapid rebuild but that really seems like blind faith.

Sometimes things are exactly as they appear.

Personally I have more time for the "no plan" criticism than the "smartest guy in the room" stuff. If Treliving sounded like Darryl Sutter no one would say that.

By we you mean me I'd assume.

I personally see a big difference in someone criticizing the plan as they know it, or as they think it is currently, than the guy that beats his chest and says they don't have a plan, blah blah smartest guy in the room.

I think the team had a plan. It was built around a deep defense core and Monahan and Gaudreau up front. Drafting and moves added Tkachuk and Lindholm to the mix making them deeper at forward but then the duo hit the wall and they've been reeling since.

To me the issue is what's up now.

Do they see it differently than the average fan? Does Treliving believe this is the core and he's keeping with it come hell or high water? His comments at the end of last season tells me no ... he wanted change. He didn't get it.

So why? My money is on offers being so weak that either he, or ownership ... or all of them just didn't feel it was the way to go.

But all of that is hugely different than saying there is no plan at all.

[Saqe]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

What have they actually accomplished?

Established a better culture and not being the doormat of the league? Nobody goes straight to a Stanley cup.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Saqe

Established a better culture and not being the doormat of the league? Nobody goes straight to a Stanley cup.

OK but what have they actually accomplished?
They've advanced to the second round twice in the last few years. Better than the Flames yes, but that's a low bar.

I don't know why they are being held up as some sort of bar the Flames should try to reach. I would rank them in the bottom 1/4 of the league when it comes to organizations (and to be clear the Flames would be in that group too)

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

We might be nit picking a little. If a fan complains that there's no plan, is that meaningfully different than saying the plan is bad, or is unachievable or seems to lack commitment?

As an outsider, it sure seems like the fundamental problem is the lack of commitment to a clear direction. I guess you can hold out hope that the org is three steps ahead of us and we're headed into a rapid rebuild but that really seems like blind faith.

Sometimes things are exactly as they appear.

Personally I have more time for the "no plan" criticism than the "smartest guy in the room" stuff. If Treliving sounded like Darryl Sutter no one would say that.

I have said it before but the reason this rebuild has failed and the plans hasn’t worked is because Gaudreau, Monahan, Tkachuk, Bennett were not good enough. I think when they were building this team for the future Johnny could be seen as the next Patrick Kane and a dominant offensive player who is top 5. Monahan was scoring 30 goals at 20 years old and after peaking at 24 he has started to really regress. Bennett never worked out here. After scoring 34 goals and 76pts on the second line in 2019 Tkachuk has struggled to take a meaningful step forward.

The core that was drafted by the organization and young players they acquired (Hamilton —>Lindholm/Hanifin) were supposed to lead this team to years of contention and it looked like it was heading that way but alas it was a mirage, a one year wonder that couldn’t keep the momentum up long enough to win a playoff round.

We can talk all we want about some of the bad pieces acquires around this core but in my opinion this core not living up to the ceiling we placed on them as a city/fanbase/organization has resulted in a team built to bounce on the bubble for a few years and likely start from scratch again.

With a HOF coach and key players near free agency this is likely the last stand for Treliving and this core group which ultimately is Monahan, Gaudreau, Tkachuk

[Saqe]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

OK but what have they actually accomplished?
They've advanced to the second round twice in the last few years. Better than the Flames yes, but that's a low bar.

I don't know why they are being held up as some sort of bar the Flames should try to reach. I would rank them in the bottom 1/4 of the league when it comes to organizations (and to be clear the Flames would be in that group too)

I don't see them ever winning a cup because they're a small market team where big time players just don't want to play. Even their homegrown talent Dubois left. It's hard to set the bar very high for them. So considering the circumstances I think they've done well.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Saqe

I don't see them ever winning a cup because they're a small market team where big time players just don't want to play. Even their homegrown talent Dubois left. It's hard to set the bar very high for them. So considering the circumstances I think they've done well.

Couldn't you say the same sort of things about Calgary?

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Saqe

I don't see them ever winning a cup because they're a small market team where big time players just don't want to play. Even their homegrown talent Dubois left. It's hard to set the bar very high for them. So considering the circumstances I think they've done well.

So the same as Calgary.