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Old 12-06-2016, 03:01 PM   #3401
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Edit: More shocking developments, but $4 billion is a crock of #### too. It's $825 million each and they are producing two, for a grand total of $1.65 billion.
The GAO reported in March 2016 that the program and procurement cost is $3.2 billion. With a maintenance package (or even typical military overruns), $4 billion isn't unreasonable.

http://www.gao.gov/assets/680/676281.pdf

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Old 12-06-2016, 03:12 PM   #3402
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The GAO reported in March 2016 that the program and procurement cost is $3.2 billion. With a maintenance package (or even typical military overruns), $4 billion isn't unreasonable.

http://www.gao.gov/assets/680/676281.pdf

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Interesting. Procurement for the two planes is $282M. Almost $2B is R&D. That means there are $500M in military upgrades to each plane. That's some serious technology they put into those babies. Wow!
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Old 12-06-2016, 03:30 PM   #3403
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I can't believe I'm somehow defending this knobhead again, but in fairness, the new planes wouldn't even be ready until 2024, so unless he wins a second term, he wouldn't actually be making use of them anyway.

That said, I'm not sure why the president-elect has to say "CANCEL ORDER!" via tweet as if he's on the outside looking in when presumably he could just go ahead and cancel the order himself next month.
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Old 12-06-2016, 03:31 PM   #3404
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They are basically a mobile Whitehouse so it doesn't surprise me a version with new technology is going to cost a lot.
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Old 12-06-2016, 03:39 PM   #3405
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Looks like Flynn Jr. (believer in Pizzagate and any other conspiracy theory that he comes across apparently) isn't helping out his dad anymore and Trump's transition team is distancing themselves from him, cancelling his email address, after at first apparently requesting security clearance for him.

Tapper had to ask Pence 7 times about security clearance having been requested before he finally kind of answered the question.

http://www.politico.com/story/2016/1...e-pence-232270
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Old 12-06-2016, 04:02 PM   #3406
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The problem with security clearance in the US is that everyone has it.

There are more than 5 million americans with security clearance. Great book by Dana Priest called Top Secret America, but there's also a series of articles she's written for the Washington Post that are worth a read as well.

http://projects.washingtonpost.com/top-secret-america/

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Old 12-07-2016, 02:56 AM   #3407
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Wow the ageism here is offensive
Trump is offensive, we're just being hopefull.
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Old 12-07-2016, 09:14 AM   #3408
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I'm not sure if this is surprising or not but Trump is Time Magazine's Person of the Year for 2016.

He beat out Clinton, Zuckerberg, Beyonce, Putin, Narendra Modi, Nigel Farage, Erdogan, Simone Biles, The Flint Whistleblowers and CRISPR Scientists.

Last edited by calgarygeologist; 12-07-2016 at 09:17 AM.
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Old 12-07-2016, 09:19 AM   #3409
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Not surprising. I don't think anyone can deny that as far as individuals go, he was the biggest news maker of the year.

I am sure Trump and his supporters will try to angle it as an endorsement though.
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Old 12-07-2016, 09:26 AM   #3410
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I'm not sure if this is surprising or not but Trump is Time Magazine's Person of the Year for 2016.

He beat out Clinton, Zuckerberg, Beyonce, Putin, Narendra Modi, Nigel Farage, Erdogan, Simone Biles, The Flint Whistleblowers and CRISPR Scientists.
Other famous Time Magazine persons of the year include Hitler and Stalin. It reflects their impact - good or bad.
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Old 12-07-2016, 10:05 AM   #3411
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Amazing, heartbreaking article on the hit squads in the Philippines right now:
http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2...=top-news&_r=0

Can't believe Trump is defending this guy. Or I guess I can.. it's just sad.

Almost feel like there should be a separate thread for this one. It's basically a genocide on the poor
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Old 12-07-2016, 10:14 AM   #3412
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Amazing, heartbreaking article on the hit squads in the Philippines right now:
http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2...=top-news&_r=0

Can't believe Trump is defending this guy. Or I guess I can.. it's just sad.

Almost feel like there should be a separate thread for this one. It's basically a genocide on the poor
The bolded makes Republicans get a diamond cuttingingly hard boner, that Trump supports him doesn't surprise me at all.
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Old 12-07-2016, 10:26 AM   #3413
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The bolded makes Republicans get a diamond cuttingingly hard boner, that Trump supports him doesn't surprise me at all.
You know Republicans are majority working class and, in millions of millions of cases, poor? But yet anything bad in the world, anything offensive in the world, is somehow tied to Trump or Republicans.
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Old 12-07-2016, 10:31 AM   #3414
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You know Republicans are majority working class and, in millions of millions of cases, poor? But yet anything bad in the world, anything offensive in the world, is somehow tied to Trump or Republicans.
Clearly I was speaking about the Republican party's leadership, their policies and the current deluge of news regarding their plans once in office support my slightly exaggerated observation. You're a smart lil fella, I'd have thought you would have understood that.
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Old 12-07-2016, 10:47 AM   #3415
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You know Republicans are majority working class and, in millions of millions of cases, poor? But yet anything bad in the world, anything offensive in the world, is somehow tied to Trump or Republicans.
The majority of everyone is working class and millions of poor support democrats too.

The elite of the elite tend to support Republicans however.

According to Forbes among billionaire families that are politically active, 56% of the richest families support Republicans only while 14% support Democrats only. About 30% hedge their bets and support both.

Most politicians in general cater to the rich despite what party they align with, but the Republicans have long been the party for elites even though many of the deplorables that suport them are dirt poor.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/katiasav.../#41bfb807717e
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Old 12-07-2016, 11:09 AM   #3416
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The average income of Trump primary voters (aka his core) was $72,000. For Hillary voters it was $60,000. The Republicans we must also remember are the party of union busting and right to work and tax credits (which never help the poor). Considering them the working class party or party of the poor is borderline insane. It'd be like calling the NDP the party of the oil patch.
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Old 12-07-2016, 11:13 AM   #3417
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The average income of Trump primary voters (aka his core) was $72,000. For Hillary voters it was $60,000. The Republicans we must also remember are the party of union busting and right to work and tax credits (which never help the poor). Considering them the working class party or party of the poor is borderline insane. It'd be like calling the NDP the party of the oil patch.
Does that 72k take into account the billionaires money, that was mentioned above?
right to work is stupid, can't believe Conservatives are dumb enough to think it's a good idea. It's basically turning job conditions that illegal workers normally have, no benefits, no security, low wages, no safety regulations etc. etc. and turning them into jobs for patriotic Americans.
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Old 12-07-2016, 11:13 AM   #3418
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I can't believe I'm somehow defending this knobhead again, but in fairness, the new planes wouldn't even be ready until 2024, so unless he wins a second term, he wouldn't actually be making use of them anyway.

That said, I'm not sure why the president-elect has to say "CANCEL ORDER!" via tweet as if he's on the outside looking in when presumably he could just go ahead and cancel the order himself next month.
For PR, it looks like he's saving money and the person that suffers is the President in 2024 who has to deal with a 40 year old plane.
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Old 12-07-2016, 11:38 AM   #3419
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Does that 72k take into account the billionaires money, that was mentioned above?
right to work is stupid, can't believe Conservatives are dumb enough to think it's a good idea. It's basically turning job conditions that illegal workers normally have, no benefits, no security, low wages, no safety regulations etc. etc. and turning them into jobs for patriotic Americans.
The billionaires and the Joe Dirts probably cancel each other out.
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Old 12-07-2016, 11:53 AM   #3420
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So umm...

Quote:
Dave Wasserman ‏@Redistrict 24h24 hours ago
It now looks quite possible Clinton will end up w/ more votes than Obama 65.9 million in '12. Now ~400k behind:
https://twitter.com/Redistrict/statu...10040394878977

...maybe we overreacted in the aftermath of Trump's win saying the Dems needed a serious change? Maybe all the Dems really need is a more likable candidate, or one who appeals better to the rust belt? So slight tweeks rather than wholesale change. It also appears Hillary will win by more than 3 million votes. So those few crazies who thought the election would be stolen from Trump through the electoral college after he won the popular vote? Yeah....
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