2009 NCAA football thread!!

[Clever_Iggy]

Originally Posted by valo403

And that right there sums it up.

2 losses to top teams in the dying minutes and it's still being "run out of the stadium", think that has much to do with your admitted hatred?

Alright, focus on that sentence, I'll focus on the fact that OSU and the rest of the conference doesn't play well against other conferences. In many cases, OSU gets run out of the stadium. Sometimes, they keep it close, which is almost preferable because it keeps those Buckeye fans believing that they were "this close" to being a legit big boy team.

But come on... the hype surrounding the national championship games should not be focused on OSU ever again. Two stinkers against FL and LSU is enough. Laying an egg against USC last year confirms they aren't getting any better against legit powerhouse programs.

My dislike for the Big 11 stretches back a long time. I've lived in their small world and got out as soon as possible. I can only take "traditional foosball is superior" so much.

[PIMking]

Im with you iggy, I lived in iowa city for a couple of years and those guys thought the big 11 was the greatest football ever.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by Clever_Iggy

Alright, focus on that sentence, I'll focus on the fact that OSU and the rest of the conference doesn't play well against other conferences. In many cases, OSU gets run out of the stadium. Sometimes, they keep it close, which is almost preferable because it keeps those Buckeye fans believing that they were "this close" to being a legit big boy team.

But come on... the hype surrounding the national championship games should not be focused on OSU ever again. Two stinkers against FL and LSU is enough. Laying an egg against USC last year confirms they aren't getting any better against legit powerhouse programs.

My dislike for the Big 11 stretches back a long time. I've lived in their small world and got out as soon as possible. I can only take "traditional foosball is superior" so much.

I don't think Big Ten football is great, but I get sick of fans (especially Pac-10 fans) acting as if the Big Ten is a small step up from the MAC. You keep focusing on how OSU performed a few years back, I'll talk about the 2 most recent games in which the losses came in the dying minutes. USC sucked for damn near a decade, by your logic they shouldn't be considered for national title games ever again because of that.

The one issue that people always overlook is the fact that you need at least some ability to play a traditional power running game to win the Big Ten, nobody has been able to consistently succeed in late season crap condition games without that. It puts Big Ten teams in a bit of a conundrum when assembling a roster and a playbook, and it's not really realistic to switch from style to style each week.

Look, I don't think OSU is a truly elite team and neither are any of the other Big Ten teams this year, but people just love to go overboard with it and that's pretty much the only time I'll pipe up.

[Clever_Iggy]

Originally Posted by valo403

I don't think Big Ten football is great, but I get sick of fans (especially Pac-10 fans) acting as if the Big Ten is a small step up from the MAC. You keep focusing on how OSU performed a few years back, I'll talk about the 2 most recent games in which the losses came in the dying minutes. USC sucked for damn near a decade, by your logic they shouldn't be considered for national title games ever again because of that.

The one issue that people always overlook is the fact that you need at least some ability to play a traditional power running game to win the Big Ten, nobody has been able to consistently succeed in late season crap condition games without that. It puts Big Ten teams in a bit of a conundrum when assembling a roster and a playbook, and it's not really realistic to switch from style to style each week.

Look, I don't think OSU is a truly elite team and neither are any of the other Big Ten teams this year, but people just love to go overboard with it and that's pretty much the only time I'll pipe up.

Fair enough.

I think OSU needs to get passed over for the NC game a few times and prove themselves in other bowl games consistently. This, combined with a better out-of-conference schedule and performance will win back BCS voters.

You make a good point about the necessity for the power-run game. But that makes me wonder if the Big 11 will ever be able to get back on the national stage as an equal with some of the other big conferences. If the SEC, Big 12 and Pac 10 are able to adapt to newer, faster, better offenses because of climate, does that mean the Big 11 will always be stuck in an inferior mold?

I don't think the Big 11 is near the same level as the WAC or MAC. Over the past few seasons, however, they are slipping to Big East or ACC level. It is pretty clear the the SEC, Big 12 and Pac 10 have put some distance between them and the rest of the conferences. From the sounds of it, that may be a permanent thing.

[PIMking]

I cant read the espn boards anymore. every single thread is about floridas schedule. it gets old.

[Clever_Iggy]

Originally Posted by PIMking

I cant read the espn boards anymore. every single thread is about floridas schedule. it gets old.

The media circle jerk over Florida and Tim Tebow is the only thing worse than hearing about the Big 11's traditional power-run game.

Is it too much to ask for Tebow to be caught doing blow at a party or something to ruin his perfect image and allow the media to report on the other 118 NCAA teams and few thousand football players?

[transplant99]

I don't think Big Ten football is great, but I get sick of fans (especially Pac-10 fans) acting as if the Big Ten is a small step up from the MAC

Thats because in the last 3 years or so....the big 10 has flat out been awful except for 2 teams...and then they go out and get whacked by a pac 10 team when it comes to bowl games.

Its a fair assessment. Its no worse than saying that the Big east is no longer any better than the mwc.

[PIMking]

Originally Posted by Clever_Iggy

The media circle jerk over Florida and Tim Tebow is the only thing worse than hearing about the Big 11's traditional power-run game.

Is it too much to ask for Tebow to be caught doing blow at a party or something to ruin his perfect image and allow the media to report on the other 118 NCAA teams and few thousand football players?

being a florida fan im tired of hearing tebow this and that. its old.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Thats because in the last 3 years or so....the big 10 has flat out been awful except for 2 teams...and then they go out and get whacked by a pac 10 team when it comes to bowl games.

Its a fair assessment. Its no worse than saying that the Big east is no longer any better than the mwc.

Flat out awful? Team to team the Big Ten and Pac 10 are neck and neck over the last few years. That's not even debatable.

[moon]

Originally Posted by valo403

Flat out awful? Team to team the Big Ten and Pac 10 are neck and neck over the last few years. That's not even debatable.

Other than USC you may be right, but having USC makes the Pac 10 that much more respectable.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by moon

Other than USC you may be right, but having USC makes the Pac 10 that much more respectable.

Well if one team makes an entire conference you're right, but that's not the case. One team does not make a conference, it's the antithesis of the whole concept of a conference.

USC is a truly elite team, with the exception of one day a year when they decide to not show up against an incredibly mediocre opponent, but otherwise the Pac 10 isn't at all better than the Big Ten. Both conferences have a couple teams that are top 25 calibre but haven't taken that next step, both have teams that should be better but drop games to inferior opponents, and both have bad teams that at times appear to be better suited for 1-AA. USC would make the Pac 10 more respectable but like OSU they've decided to suck once a year too, they've just done it against lesser opponents on smaller stages. USC is generally better than anyone in the Big Ten, but the resume doesn't really shine all that much brighter when you actually look at it overall.

[moon]

Originally Posted by valo403

Well if one team makes an entire conference you're right, but that's not the case. One team does not make a conference, it's the antithesis of the whole concept of a conference.

Taking USC out of the conversation and the teams in the Big Ten and Pac 10 end up being fairly even.

The difference is that the Big Ten best are usually static where the Pac 10 has about 3-4 teams that will finish in the top ten.

Doing a quick look it appears as though over the past three years as you stated each conference had 3 teams in the top 25 (minus USC) and all ranked about the same.

USC is generally better than anyone in the Big Ten, but the resume doesn't really shine all that much brighter when you actually look at it overall.

USC has been better than everyone in the Big 10 every year except once since 2002. They haven't finished lower than 4th in that time and have two National Championships. They have been generally better they have been much better.

They have the best resume of any team over that time frame and a resume that does shine a lot brighter than Ohio State.

[Flames in 07]

The Big 10 is flat out awful and comparable with the Big East???

Really, with a straight face you believe that? Comparing the Big East up and down the standings vs the Big 10 you think the Big East is better?

Is the big 10 overrated? yes. Is it structually disadvantaged because it doesn't attract speed, and the game has evolved to exploit speed yes. But flat out awful?

[Clever_Iggy]

Originally Posted by Flames in 07

The Big 10 is flat out awful and comparable with the Big East???

Really, with a straight face you believe that? Comparing the Big East up and down the standings vs the Big 10 you think the Big East is better?

Is the big 10 overrated? yes. Is it structually disadvantaged because it doesn't attract speed, and the game has evolved to exploit speed yes. But flat out awful?

Outside of Penn State and OSU, the Big 11 is pretty awful. I don't think they're as awful as the Big East or ACC yet, but they are well on their way.

I think football is really evolving to demand more athleticism out of every position - namely the skill positions and defensive positions. With the necessity of the power run game and the apparent unwillingness to keep up with the pro-style change in college football, it's only a matter of time until recruits go to greener pastures and the Big 11 is left picking from Ohio farm boys who can hit hard but can't run, catch or throw on the same level as the rest of the NCAA.

Right now and over the past several years the gap between the SEC, Big 12, Pac-10 and the Big 11 has widened significantly while the gap between the ACC, Big East and Big 11 has narrowed significantly.

[moon]

Originally Posted by Clever_Iggy

Outside of Penn State and OSU, the Big 11 is pretty awful. I don't think they're as awful as the Big East or ACC yet, but they are well on their way.

They had a terrible season last year but there is no reason to not still include Michigan in that group. They are going to be at the top of the conference/college football again very soon.

They have too much money/cache and a good coach not to do well.

while the gap between the ACC, Big East and Big 11 has narrowed significantly.

No way has it narrowed significantly. There isn't team in the Big East or ACC that would come close to regularly competing for the top 3 in the Big Ten.

There is still a big drop off between the Big Ten and the Big East/ACC.

However, that likely has to do with how bad those conferences are rather than great things the Big Ten is doing.

[Flames in 07]

Originally Posted by Clever_Iggy

Outside of Penn State and OSU, the Big 11 is pretty awful. I don't think they're as awful as the Big East or ACC yet, but they are well on their way.

I think football is really evolving to demand more athleticism out of every position - namely the skill positions and defensive positions. With the necessity of the power run game and the apparent unwillingness to keep up with the pro-style change in college football, it's only a matter of time until recruits go to greener pastures and the Big 11 is left picking from Ohio farm boys who can hit hard but can't run, catch or throw on the same level as the rest of the NCAA.

Right now and over the past several years the gap between the SEC, Big 12, Pac-10 and the Big 11 has widened significantly while the gap between the ACC, Big East and Big 11 has narrowed significantly.

agree it's slipping and overrated but flat out awful and comparable to the big east is a bit of an exaggeration to me.

Not sure I'd throw the Pac 10 into the same class as the sec or bigxii. Outside of the #1 team I think they are inferior up and down the standings.

[Clever_Iggy]

Originally Posted by Flames in 07

agree it's slipping and overrated but flat out awful and comparable to the big east is a bit of an exaggeration to me.

Not sure I'd throw the Pac 10 into the same class as the sec or bigxii. Outside of the #1 team I think they are inferior up and down the standings.

I'm not saying they are the equivalent to the Big East, I'm just saying that's the direction they are heading and unless they adapt to the changes going on in NCAA football they will reach the Big East.

I think the SEC and Big 12 are top conferences. There's a gap between those two and the Pac-10. Then there's a pretty big (and growing gap) between the Pac-10 and Big 11.

After Penn State and OSU, there isn't a team in the Big 11 that I'd take over the next 4-5 teams in the Pac-10. Michigan, Iowa, Michigan State, Minnesota, Wisconsin - ugh.

[transplant99]

The Big 10 is flat out awful and comparable with the Big East???

with THE EXCEPTION of 2 teams...read the freaking quote please.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by Clever_Iggy

Outside of Penn State and OSU, the Big 11 is pretty awful. I don't think they're as awful as the Big East or ACC yet, but they are well on their way.

I think football is really evolving to demand more athleticism out of every position - namely the skill positions and defensive positions. With the necessity of the power run game and the apparent unwillingness to keep up with the pro-style change in college football, it's only a matter of time until recruits go to greener pastures and the Big 11 is left picking from Ohio farm boys who can hit hard but can't run, catch or throw on the same level as the rest of the NCAA.

Right now and over the past several years the gap between the SEC, Big 12, Pac-10 and the Big 11 has widened significantly while the gap between the ACC, Big East and Big 11 has narrowed significantly.

This comment confuses me, pro style change? If anything college football has changed waaaaaay more than pro football, the wildcat and assorted formations have existed in college for a decade, I really don't get how you can watch college football and then make a comment like that unless I've totally misinterpreted.

BTW, look at the recruits over the last 5 years and you'll find that the Big Ten has taken in more than its share of 5 star athletes out of every elite football state in the country with the exception of Big 12 territory. Players aren't avoiding Big Ten programs at all.

Also, if you really believe the Pac 10 is breaking away form the Big Ten please back that up. USC has broken away, the rest of the Pac 10 is within a touchdown one way or another from a comparable Big Ten team, and based on this weekend so is the elite of the Pac 10.

[transplant99]

Small sample but...

in BCS bowl games

Pac 10 is 9-4

Big 10 is 8-11

In BCS bowl games since its inception in 1999, the pac 10 is 6-3 straight up against the big 10.

and based on this weekend so is the elite of the Pac 10.

Give it up man...

Last year OSU has a freshman QB in LA and get smoked 35-3.

This year USC has a freshman QB and wins in front of 106,000+ in Colombus.

Are you seriously saying that you think OSU would be anyhwere close to USC if they play at a neutral site or in the Rose Bowl later this season? I bet the spread would reach double digits if it happened.