LOST Season 5 - SPOILERS

[metallicat]

That was a fantastic ending. 16 episodes left.

[gottabekd]

Ha, I was going to post the JIMP comment.

Honestly, a fantastic episode. Anybody who passed on LOST is really missing out on quality entertainment.

It's tough to come up with theories because the whole time travel bit throws logic out the window...but...It seems Jacob is the reason for the Losties to come to the island--and return. He helps them to return, so that they end up in the past to set off the bomb, and prevent them from ever coming to the island. Now, that wraps it up all and well--but what remains for Season 6?

It seems clear that the smoke monster, which we know can take the form of people, is "Locke". And the monster, posing as Alex, tells Ben to not harm Locke (who is conveniently away from the action at this particular moment). And this same smoke monster is the guy who was seen talking with Jacob at the start of the episode, about the time when the Black Rock comes sailing up to the island (with Richard on board).

Will require a rewatch of some of this seasons episodes to see the reactions/motivations of Elana and her group.

[Pagal4321]

I am just speechless. Have no idea what to say. Great freaking episode.

Richard was on that boat at the beginning? Didn't know that.

[gottabekd]

Originally Posted by Pagal4321

I am just speechless. Have no idea what to say. Great freaking episode.

Richard was on that boat at the beginning? Didn't know that.

No, just speculation.

[Parallex]

Ah, now that was just cruel. That was the motherload of all cliffhangers.

[blankall]

Jacob is in a lot of scenes from other episodes. Did they show Jacob when they aired the earlier episodes or did they just add that stuff in now?

[Bagor]

Fanatstic finale!

Originally Posted by gottabekd

It seems clear that the smoke monster, which we know can take the form of people, is "Locke". And the monster, posing as Alex, tells Ben to not harm Locke (who is conveniently away from the action at this particular moment). And this same smoke monster is the guy who was seen talking with Jacob at the start of the episode, about the time when the Black Rock comes sailing up to the island (with Richard on board).

Agreed that the smoke monster is Focke (fake Locke), I also think the smoke monster was Christian too based on Illana saying that Jacob hadn't been there for a long time and someone else had been using it.

Smoke monster was posing as Christian saying that he was speaking for Jacob when in fact he was doing a lot of manipulating?

[ResAlien]

But being LOST, expect another curveball. Sure, "black suit" guy from the beginning of the ep seems to be Locke, smoke monster, etc, but there are "rules". Well, someone had to put the rules there to tell him not to kill Jacob. Jacob is no saint either it seems, he was directly responsible for Sayid's lady getting merc'd in the crosswalk. My opinion is this island is some kind of effed up human nature game. Last season should be epic.

Still drunk, will be more coherent tomorrow.

[CaptainCrunch]

I think this whole story is at some point locked into Egyptian god lore.

The loom at the start also always seems to represent fate in multiple mythologies. Jacob seemed to be intent on influencing fates.

We've seen the statue whole, and it looks like Anubis the Egyptian god of the dead or the god of the underworld. He was the son of Osirus who was also the god of the underworld.

However Set looks almost identical to Anubis but was the god of desert, chaos and disorder. He was considered to be on the same power level as Ra the sun god.

I'm wondering if the Locke creature is actually representative of Ra and Jacob is representative of Set. They're at war for power over the Island

I found this in wiki which is interesting to. It interesting because if we believe that the oceanic folk are dead, this matches up in a lot of ways.

For the Egyptians, the sun represented light, warmth, and growth. This made sun deities very important to Egyptians, and it is no coincidence that the sun came to be the ruler of all. In his myths, the sun was either seen as the body or eye of Ra.
Ra was thought to travel in a sun boat (The Boat of the Millions) to protect its fires from the primordial waters of the underworld it passed through during the night. Ra traveled in the sun boat with various other deities including Set and Mehen who defended against the monsters of the underworld, and Ma'at who guided the boat's course. The monsters included Apep, an enormous serpent who tried to stop the sun boat's journey every night by consuming it. The Ra myth saw the sunrise as the rebirth of the sun by the goddess Nut and the sky, thus attributing the concept of rebirth and renewal to Ra and strengthening his role as a creator god.
For the Egyptians, the sun represented light, warmth, and growth. This made sun deities very important to Egyptians, and it is no coincidence that the sun came to be the ruler of all. In his myths, the sun was either seen as the body or eye of Ra.
Ra was thought to travel in a sun boat (The Boat of the Millions) to protect its fires from the primordial waters of the underworld it passed through during the night. Ra traveled in the sun boat with various other deities including Set and Mehen who defended against the monsters of the underworld, and Ma'at who guided the boat's course. The monsters included Apep, an enormous serpent who tried to stop the sun boat's journey every night by consuming it. The Ra myth saw the sunrise as the rebirth of the sun by the goddess Nut and the sky, thus attributing the concept of rebirth and renewal to Ra and strengthening his role as a creator god.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ra

[D to the iddy]

I was cruising around lostepedia tonight and there was a lot of stuff that I didn't put together (ie. the ring of ash housing Jacob's nemesis and since it was broken when Ilana went to the cabin, the nemesis was free to roam the island, etc.) This could take hours out of my much needed sleep time.

Great episode tonight! I'll give a more comprehensive overview of my thoughts tomorrow sometime...

[GreenTeaFrapp]

Originally Posted by ResAlien

Jacob is no saint either it seems, he was directly responsible for Sayid's lady getting merc'd in the crosswalk.

I think that Jacob saved Sayid from getting hit by the car. If Jacob hadn't been there, they both might have been hit when they crossed the street.

[MolsonInBothHands]

Wow, this finale kept me up last night.

Random notes I need to get down....

The guitar Hurley has must be Charlie's.

I think Juliet is successful in detonating the h-bomb, and is then the cause of the infertility on the island, and blows the statue to smithereens.

Jacob has touched the lives of all the Losties by the looks of it. Has he been through it all before, like Desmond. He knew when Locke would fall, when Sayid would be run over, etc.

Perhaps Jacob keeps forcing the same loop of time to happen over and over again. Him and his enemy are aware of previous iterations. Jacob is trying to weave fate as CC puts it to lead to a certain event that frees them from the island. His enemy believes what is done is done. (their argument) I don't think Richard came on the Black Rock, he is older if he is speaking Latin, isn't he?

Awesome, awesome episode. It is going to be a long wait... so much more to think about.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by MolsonInBothHands

Wow, this finale kept me up last night.

Random notes I need to get down....

The guitar Hurley has must be Charlie's.

I was thinking that to, but then I thought when they went down the second time that they had to pretty much recreate the first crash, which is why that bounty hunter had to have Sayid in handcuffs to take the place of Kate.

Originally Posted by MolsonInBothHands

I think Juliet is successful in detonating the h-bomb, and is then the cause of the infertility on the island, and blows the statue to smithereens.

the only thing that stops me from thinking that is that Ben who was on the island at the time has no idea how that happens yet he was on the Island at the same time as the bomb happened.

Originally Posted by MolsonInBothHands

Jacob has touched the lives of all the Losties by the looks of it. Has he been through it all before, like Desmond. He knew when Locke would fall, when Sayid would be run over, etc.

I still think that this is an elaberate recruiting process, and Richard might have gone through the same scenario when he arrived on the Island and possibly battled a nemesis from the BlackRock. While the same general scenario's might have taken place it was probably done all the way back to the rise of time with random groups being attracted to the Island. Jack or one of the other castaways might end up replacing Richard.

Originally Posted by MolsonInBothHands

Perhaps Jacob keeps forcing the same loop of time to happen over and over again. Him and his enemy are aware of previous iterations. Jacob is trying to weave fate as CC puts it to lead to a certain event that frees them from the island. His enemy believes what is done is done. (their argument) I don't think Richard came on the Black Rock, he is older if he is speaking Latin, isn't he?

I keep going back to the Egyptian god figures, and the two guys sitting on the beach at the start. Jacob trying to control fate and continue the same thing over and over again to a predetermined ending like Ra the sun god . While the other guy who hates him might be like the god Set who was only interested in Chaos and non predetermined events who wants to through the island into Chaos, while Jacob wants to control the Island and rule over it.

I thought Richard spoke Spanish myself and I am still convinced that he came on the Black Rock which could have been the ship at sea at the start which looked stunningly like the ship in the bottle that Richard was building.

Over all a great episode, I felt bad for Juliet though she did a great job with her final scene.



Awesome, awesome episode. It is going to be a long wait... so much more to think about.[/quote]

[JohnnyFlame]

Originally Posted by gottabekd

Ha, I was going to post the JIMP comment.

Honestly, a fantastic episode. Anybody who passed on LOST is really missing out on quality entertainment.

It's tough to come up with theories because the whole time travel bit throws logic out the window...but...It seems Jacob is the reason for the Losties to come to the island--and return. He helps them to return, so that they end up in the past to set off the bomb, and prevent them from ever coming to the island. Now, that wraps it up all and well--but what remains for Season 6?

It seems clear that the smoke monster, which we know can take the form of people, is "Locke". And the monster, posing as Alex, tells Ben to not harm Locke (who is conveniently away from the action at this particular moment). And this same smoke monster is the guy who was seen talking with Jacob at the start of the episode, about the time when the Black Rock comes sailing up to the island (with Richard on board).

Will require a rewatch of some of this seasons episodes to see the reactions/motivations of Elana and her group.

Yep it really is back to being just can't miss TV. Now that I have digital and Lost is on both earlier and later I watch it twice. Heck and I tape it as well. First time I just watch the show. Second time I look at the book titles, inscriptions, reference other episodes etc.

It's that good that you can just watch it for entertainment or you can just get lost in the depth of the story. And now the wait thing AGAIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[ok, ok,....I get it]

So a couple of thought/questions:

I think the show is revolving around the concept of Free Will. Jacob mentions that to Hugo. Bernie and his wife also touch on it when they mentioned they are retired. It appears that everyone on the island is given a choice....Bernie and Mrs, choose not to take part, and as a result are left alone?

Also, what happened to the rest of the plane load of people.........?

[StrayBullet]

Originally Posted by ok, ok,....I get it

So a couple of thought/questions:

I think the show is revolving around the concept of Free Will. Jacob mentions that to Hugo. Bernie and his wife also touch on it when they mentioned they are retired. It appears that everyone on the island is given a choice....Bernie and Mrs, choose not to take part, and as a result are left alone?

Also, what happened to the rest of the plane load of people.........?

Which plane load? The ones from 1974? - They were attacked by those flaming arrows courtesy of the Dharma Initiative. I guess the only ones that survived were Bernard and Rose. I was wondering what had happened to them all season.

[ok, ok,....I get it]

Originally Posted by StrayBullet

Which plane load? The ones from 1974? - They were attacked by those flaming arrows courtesy of the Dharma Initiative. I guess the only ones that survived were Bernard and Rose. I was wondering what had happened to them all season.

the ones from 815, they should have moved through time like Bernie and his wife.....I can't believe the were all killed, and BTW how do we know the arrows were from Dharma?

[StrayBullet]

Here's something interesting I came across a few minutes ago.

http://www.associatedcontent.com/art...led.html?cat=2

[Maritime Q-Scout]

I think there is a lot of meaning in the opening scene of the season finale

Antagonist: Morning
Jacob: Mornin'
Antagonist: Mind if I join you?
Jacob: Please. Want some fish?
Antagonist: No thank you, I just ate
Jacob: I take it you're here because of the ship?
Antagonist: I am. How'd they find the island?
Jacob: You'll have to ask them when they get here.
Antagonist: I don't have to ask. You brought them here. You'll try to prove me wrong aren't you?
Jacob: You are wrong.
Antagonist: Am I? They come, they fight, they destroy, they corrupt, it always ends the same.
Jacob: It only ends once, anything that happens before that is just progress.
Antagonist: Do you have any idea how badly I want to kill you?
Jacob: Yes.
Antagonist: One of these days sooner or later I'm going to find a loophole.
Jacob: When you do I'll be right here.
Antagonist: Always nice talking to you Jacob.
Jacob: Nice talking to you too.

This raises a few things.

1 - it's possible to change the past, whatever happens happens, you can change the future, BUT there are no alternate realities . . . it only ends once.

2 - I almost thing there's a Battlestar Galactica theme in that conversation. It's all happened before, it will all happen again. How long, and how many lifetimes has Jacob and the antagonist been fighting?

3 - Did Jacob intise the Black Rock to come? If so, I think he left the option up to them, ergo he didn't bring them here, they chose to go (think how Hurley got back to the island, Jacob convinced him by leaving the choice to him)

4 - Relistening to the conversation, is the ending always the same, just the events leading up to it are different? Perhaps Jacob always winning the war, and the antagonist wants to kill him thinking it'll be his turn to win? If so, I think Jacob's side will still be victorious.

5 - Is Jacob or the Antagonist evil? I'm calling him the antagonist because Jacob is the focal point and he is Jacob's enemy, perhaps he's actually the progatonist?



On a side note. How the hell did the shop keeper know that the kids were stealing? The gaul to just walk up and accuse them and go through their bags. He was clearly tied up with the customers. Stupid continuity! LOL

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Maritime Q-Scout

I think there is a lot of meaning in the opening scene of the season finale



This raises a few things.

1 - it's possible to change the past, whatever happens happens, you can change the future, BUT there are no alternate realities . . . it only ends once.

2 - I almost thing there's a Battlestar Galactica theme in that conversation. It's all happened before, it will all happen again. How long, and how many lifetimes has Jacob and the antagonist been fighting?

3 - Did Jacob intise the Black Rock to come? If so, I think he left the option up to them, ergo he didn't bring them here, they chose to go (think how Hurley got back to the island, Jacob convinced him by leaving the choice to him)

4 - Relistening to the conversation, is the ending always the same, just the events leading up to it are different? Perhaps Jacob always winning the war, and the antagonist wants to kill him thinking it'll be his turn to win? If so, I think Jacob's side will still be victorious.

5 - Is Jacob or the Antagonist evil? I'm calling him the antagonist because Jacob is the focal point and he is Jacob's enemy, perhaps he's actually the progatonist?



On a side note. How the hell did the shop keeper know that the kids were stealing? The gaul to just walk up and accuse them and go through their bags. He was clearly tied up with the customers. Stupid continuity! LOL

Obviously you weren't raised in the 70's when those damned hippy kids were distrusted by the conservative minded shop keepers.

There sure seem to be a lot of rules on this island. It sure is starting to look like one big game.