[News] Conroy, Maloney, Nonis and Pascall all extended 2 years

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by TOfan

I’m no economist but Edwards bought into the Flames in ‘94 if I’m not mistaken. I’d bet that was in the 10’s of millions. The value of the Glames today is 1.65 billion according to Forbes. It will jump in 2027 century move into the new arena as well.

I’ll admit I don’t know what I don’t know about the day to day operations and ownership but I can’t believe they are as terrified of rebuilding as they appear to be. City’s closing in on 2 million with no other serious threat when it comes to pro sports.

Well no team that I can think of ever uses the word rebuild, the Rangers never did, can’t really think of a team that uses it. I am guessing the economic implications of publicly saying you are not seriously trying to win might be a reason why.

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

Well no team that I can think of ever uses the word rebuild, the Rangers never did, can’t really think of a team that uses it. I am guessing the economic implications of publicly saying you are not seriously trying to win might be a reason why.

Really? Maybe. I guess. Seems like Toronto and Montreal were pretty up front with their rebuild. Ottawa too. None of these teams like to rebuild but I think a good number of them realize it’s inevitable to some extent.

Still though, this team seems to think a rebuild is a death sentence. 40 + years never had a top 3 pick. I believe they’re the only team in the league aside from Vegas that can say that they’ve never picked top 3.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by TOfan

Really? Maybe. I guess. Seems like Toronto and Montreal were pretty up front with their rebuild. Ottawa too. None of these teams like to rebuild but I think a good number of them realize it’s inevitable to some extent.

Still though, this team seems to think a rebuild is a death sentence. 40 + years never had a top 3 pick. I believe they’re the only team in the league aside from Vegas that can say that they’ve never picked top 3.

Montreal traded away two first round picks and two second round picks during their rebuild. Ottawa never said they were rebuilding and they let multiple players walk for free. Don’t think Toronto ever was actively rebuilding, they just sucked.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

Montreal traded away two first round picks and two second round picks during their rebuild. Ottawa never said they were rebuilding and they let multiple players walk for free. Don’t think Toronto ever was actively rebuilding, they just sucked.

Ottawa also did things like acquire Alex Debrincat and Jake Chychrun

[PaperBagger'14]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

Well no team that I can think of ever uses the word rebuild, the Rangers never did, can’t really think of a team that uses it. I am guessing the economic implications of publicly saying you are not seriously trying to win might be a reason why.

If the word rebuild has never been said then what are you basing your economic implication guessing on?

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

Montreal traded away two first round picks and two second round picks during their rebuild. Ottawa never said they were rebuilding and they let multiple players walk for free. Don’t think Toronto ever was actively rebuilding, they just sucked.

Are you talking about the Dobson trade? I’m not sure I would call that a rebuild trade. They built their young core had most of it locked up and have a stacked system and made the playoffs last year to top it off.

Ottawa was a pretty poorly run franchise and they did get a little lucky with SJ imploding at the right time. I think Toronto under the early part of the Shanaplan was definitely rebuilding even if they didn’t call it that.

No two rebuilds are the same. I’ll be interested to see how the Flames go about theirs. The team’s starting to show signs of life now. Let’s see what happens. Spending the next 2-3 years picking 8th overall is ‘one way to do it’ I guess.

As Maloney might say, let’s see where this fantasy takes us.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by PaperBagger'14

If the word rebuild has never been said then what are you basing your economic implication guessing on?

Well that is why it is a guess I suppose, might be a reason why nobody ever says it.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by TOfan

Are you talking about the Dobson trade? I’m not sure I would call that a rebuild trade. They built their young core had most of it locked up and have a stacked system and made the playoffs last year to top it off.

Ottawa was a pretty poorly run franchise and they did get a little lucky with SJ imploding at the right time. I think Toronto under the early part of the Shanaplan was definitely rebuilding even if they didn’t call it that.

No two rebuilds are the same. I’ll be interested to see how the Flames go about theirs. The team’s starting to show signs of life now. Let’s see what happens. Spending the next 2-3 years picking 8th overall is ‘one way to do it’ I guess.

As Maloney might say, let’s see where this fantasy takes us.

They traded two firsts and two seconds away before the Dobson trade, so no not that trade.

[PaperBagger'14]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

Well that is why it is a guess I suppose, might be a reason why nobody ever says it.

Im hesitant to agree, the flames haven’t admitted they are rebuilding and ticket prices are already pretty low. I don’t think prices would be higher if they said it was a rebuild, however I do doubt the impact it would have when your team is otherwise underperforming.

In other words I believe saying you’re rebuilding when the team stinks would have little to no impact, the on ice product dictates economic impacts more than managements words.

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

They traded two firsts and two seconds away before the Dobson trade, so no not that trade.

To be honest I don’t recall the Habs trading those picks, so you’ll have to remind me.

Regardless, going back to 2018 the Habs never had less than 8 picks in a draft and had 10 or more in several drafts. Nor did they ever not have a first round pick, or more, in any one draft up till this most recent. If that’s not a rebuild then I’m not sure what you would call it.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by TOfan

To be honest I don’t recall the Habs trading those picks, so you’ll have to remind me.

Regardless, going back to 2018 the Habs never had less than 8 picks in a draft and had 10 or more in several drafts. Nor did they ever not have a first round pick, or more, in any one draft up till this most recent. If that’s not a rebuild then I’m not sure what you would call it.

It was actual one second and one third, not two seconds.

Traded 13th overall and 66th overall for Dach, who was coming in with a career high of 26 points and has not done much better in Montreal.

Traded 31st overall and 37th overall for Newhook who had a career high of 33 points coming into Montreal.

Not exactly rebuilding trades. Flames fans will have something to worry about when the Flames trade the Vegas first and their second for Samoskevich (which would be roughly the equivalent of the Newhook trade)

[TOfan]

Couldn’t agree more with what Scorp and Kent Wilson had to say on last nights After Burner regarding the Conroy, Pascall, Nonis, Maloney extensions. (27:00 min mark, approximately).

The team claiming to have had these extensions done before the season and were just waiting for the right time to announce it is both stupid and the fans ought to be insulted.

I think the last 2-3 weeks have pulled the curtain back on how small minded and myopic this organization goes about its business.

Flames fans deserve better.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

It does seem like some are minimizing it to the point it comes across as defense. The organization has had some terrible messaging in a critical time when their product is as bad as it has been in over a decade. PR matters in a time like this so it is very understandable the backlash it has caused.

Interpret however you want.

I do minimize it because it's a minimal issue to me in the big picture.

I've said it 100 times ... my go back line is with Conroy. He's the new guy in charge. If he's doing a good job and doing things differently I'm good.

Plus personally I like hope! I like to believe things will get better. And with that I'm happy to not overreact to every little snipit that comes out.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by PaperBagger'14

Im hesitant to agree, the flames haven’t admitted they are rebuilding and ticket prices are already pretty low. I don’t think prices would be higher if they said it was a rebuild, however I do doubt the impact it would have when your team is otherwise underperforming.

In other words I believe saying you’re rebuilding when the team stinks would have little to no impact, the on ice product dictates economic impacts more than managements words.

I don't see much purpose to debating whether or not the word rebuild results in less ticket sales.

I think the point is ... they think it will so they don't use the term.

As said they are carrying it out regardless of whether they use the word or not.

[kehatch]

The Flames are slowly moving up the standings. They have the best record in the Pacific over the last 10. They have a reasonable soft schedule to close out the season. They also have a lot of home games left and a winning record at home. Plus Wolf is playing well again. It will be interesting to see the direction if the Flames pull within striking distance in December.

[kehatch]

Originally Posted by TOfan

Couldn’t agree more with what Scorp and Kent Wilson had to say on last nights After Burner regarding the Conroy, Pascall, Nonis, Maloney extensions. (27:00 min mark, approximately).

The team claiming to have had these extensions done before the season and were just waiting for the right time to announce it is both stupid and the fans ought to be insulted.

I think the last 2-3 weeks have pulled the curtain back on how small minded and myopic this organization goes about its business.

Flames fans deserve better.

Agree. Also, its more then just a PR miss. It shows us how the organization thinks about the market. Their belief is that the Flames market is short sighted and want wins now. That we can't read the tea leaves beyond a single season. It explains the strategy of trying to hold onto marketable assets and prioritizing consistent seasons over building for a window.

[PaperBagger'14]

Originally Posted by Bingo

I don't see much purpose to debating whether or not the word rebuild results in less ticket sales.

I think the point is ... they think it will so they don't use the term.

As said they are carrying it out regardless of whether they use the word or not.

That’s all probably true, but it’s ignoring recent events where poor messaging and not being truthful with your fan base will kick up a big PR mess. This can also result in a financial impact as may other PR mishaps have. For a team that has a history of failure and mediocrity maybe we should be giving honesty a shot.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by PaperBagger'14

That’s all probably true, but it’s ignoring recent events where poor messaging and not being truthful with your fan base will kick up a big PR mess. This can also result in a financial impact as may other PR mishaps have. For a team that has a history of failure and mediocrity maybe we should be giving honesty a shot.

Zero debate from me on criticism of their PR tactics.

It's a mess.

But it doesn't register all that high on the give a rip scale for me vs actual hockey management decisions.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Bingo

I've said it 100 times ... my go back line is with Conroy. He's the new guy in charge. If he's doing a good job and doing things differently I'm good.

IMHO, people assume the GM has far more power than he does in the modern NHL. The Flames (and other teams) are not run by one guy. They’re run by a team of 5 or 6 execs, with the GM having more responsibility than others, but still constrained by the group, and ultimately by ownership.

Conroy isn’t free to pursue whatever strategy he wants with regard to the team’s direction and major hockey decisions. The same people who bungled these extensions have their hands in the culture, outlook, and strategic direction of the Flames, and put parameters around every major decision.

Originally Posted by Bingo

Plus personally I like hope! I like to believe things will get better. And with that I'm happy to not overreact to every little snipit that comes out.

The first part of your statement trumps everything else. You will take a positive stance towards whatever Flames brass do. If they go route A, you’ll see the best in that choice. If they do B, you’ll approve or B. If they do C, you’ll be onboard with that too. Which is cool. Just own the fact that you dislike criticism of the team and likely always will.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

IMHO, people assume the GM has far more power than he does in the modern NHL. The Flames (and other teams) are not run by one guy. They’re run by a team of 5 or 6 execs, with the GM having more responsibility than others, but still constrained by the group, and ultimately by ownership.

Conroy isn’t free to pursue whatever strategy he wants with regard to the team’s direction and major hockey decisions. The same people who bungled these extensions have their hands in the culture, outlook, and strategic direction of the Flames, and put parameters around every major decision.

Happy to change "Conroy" to the existing management in place.

From what we are hearing though, Conroy gets to make the decisions. Glad he has people to bounce things off of.

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

The first part of your statement trumps everything else. You will take a positive stance towards whatever Flames brass do. If they go route A, you’ll see the best in that choice. If they do B, you’ll approve or B. If they do C, you’ll be onboard with that too. Which is cool. Just own the fact that you dislike criticism of the team and likely always will.

Not 100% true.

I've had many "eras" where hope was gone because I didn't like what was happening at the top.

Feaster for one, and then the odd Sutter losing his mind and trading assets for quantity era.

So I'm not always hopeful. Happy to be now though.

And hope and being positive is huge in my mind. Got me through a pretty sticky cancer battle for one!