[PGT] Flames lose 4-3 to Ottawa in OT

[White Out 403]

Listening to the after burner on youtube I had no idea that we lost Steve Montador in 2015, or I some how forgot. ####

[TrentCrimmIndependent]

FWIW I was ready to praise Markstrom for that game

but then the skeptics turned out to be, yet again, correct on the matter

[Goriders]

Keep this in mind.

Markstrom got paid $73,171.00 tonight.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Goriders

Keep this in mind.

Markstrom got paid $73,171.00 tonight.

no longer feeling bad for him

[jg13]

Originally Posted by Phaneuf_Phan

Markkstrom is a magician. How can a 6'6 body turn into a midget so fast?

Ali G: Worlds tallest midget

https://youtube.com/clip/UgkxcEwzsKu...-WOKA61ALKFjpK

[Freddy]

A silver lining in my eyes is that if tonight forces the coaching staff to start Vladar most of the remaining games I believe the Flames will make the playoffs on a roll and look back on this evening as the turning point.

[TrentCrimmIndependent]

Originally Posted by Freddy

A silver lining in my eyes is that if tonight forces the coaching staff to start Vladar most of the remaining games I believe the Flames will make the playoffs on a roll and look back on this evening as the turning point.

If they do and it works out, I still see the 2nd period in Buffalo as the turning point

They provided enough run support again tonight

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Freddy

A silver lining in my eyes is that if tonight forces the coaching staff to start Vladar most of the remaining games I believe the Flames will make the playoffs on a roll and look back on this evening as the turning point.

It wont.

I'm not going to get into 'The Definition of Insanity' (looking at you Gear Grinder thread!) but the fact of the matter is...how many times have we as the fanbase said this?

"Thats gotta be Markstrom's last chance. No? Okay this time. No? Okay next time. No? Maybe now? No? Last chance! No? How about now? No?"

Sorry man. They're going to keep riding their horse for whatever reason. They keep playing him and he keeps losing.

Remember, its 'Too Early to Panic About Markstrom.'

As I said in that thread...its too late now.

"He doesnt get enough offensive support!"

By the same token you'd think the Markstrom apologists would have run out of excuses by now. They havent.

And its hard to even blame the coaching staff entirely.

Ottawa is terrible. Playing a rookie Goaltender in the midst of a tank and Vladar cant play every game, gotta start Markstrom sometime right? Against terrible opposition makes the most sense.

This game should have been a slam dunk.

No? Of course not.

[TrentCrimmIndependent]

They'll be stuck in "he's our starter, we believe in him and its on us to get him going again" until the day he leaves or is bought out

That's my fear, and I've never known this team to go about its business with goalies any other way

I wish they had the cajones...

[Manhattanboy]

Originally Posted by Locke

It wont.

I'm not going to get into 'The Definition of Insanity' (looking at you Gear Grinder thread!) but the fact of the matter is...how many times have we as the fanbase said this?

"Thats gotta be Markstrom's last chance. No? Okay this time. No? Okay next time. No? Maybe now? No? Last chance! No? How about now? No?"

Sorry man. They're going to keep riding their horse for whatever reason. They keep playing him and he keeps losing.

Remember, its 'Too Early to Panic About Markstrom.'

As I said in that thread...its too late now.

"He doesnt get enough offensive support!"

By the same token you'd think the Markstrom apologists would have run out of excuses by now. They havent.

And its hard to even blame the coaching staff entirely.

Ottawa is terrible. Playing a rookie Goaltender in the midst of a tank and Vladar cant play every game, gotta start Markstrom sometime right? Against terrible opposition makes the most sense.

This game should have been a slam dunk.

No? Of course not.

I’ve given up on any meaningful changes til June.

Hopefully I’m wrong snd we will see some guys moved at the deadline for picks.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by TrentCrimmIndependent

They'll be stuck in "he's our starter, we believe in him and its on us to get him going again" until the day he leaves or is bought out

That's my fear, and I've never known this team to go about its business with goalies any other way

I wish they had the cajones...

Oh yes, what I find just wild is that he hasnt even been just a little bad.

He's been goddamned atrocious. I think, statistically speaking, he's the worst starting goalie in the League.

"Its not all his fault tho!"

Of course not. Its never 'all one person's fault' in a team sport. But in his position I he is sub-par for an NHL goaltender.

He's rocking 0.890?

League Average is something like 0.910.

Is there a 'Wins Above Replacement' chart for Markstrom? Because at the moment his score would be a big fat '0.'

So if he's providing zero wins above replacement...then its time to replace him.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Locke

Is there a 'Wins Above Replacement' chart for Markstrom? Because at the moment his score would be a big fat '0.'

So if he's providing zero wins above replacement...then its time to replace him.

He’s at 0.25 wins about replacement.

Unfortunately, our other option is at -0.33 wins above replacement.

So pretty good argument to bring up Wolf and see what he can do… because it’s unlikely it could be worse.

[Rejean31]

Originally Posted by Manhattanboy

I’ve given up on any meaningful changes til June.

Hopefully I’m wrong snd we will see some guys moved at the deadline for picks.

You know, just like I do, that the Flames will go on a modest 4 game winning streak just ahead of trade deadline day, fooling us all in to thinking they have turned the corner. We will sell the future for a Luke Schenn and then proceed to lose the next 5 games following the trade deadline. It is the Flames way.

[Mr.Coffee]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Big shocker you didn't post HD shots against

All the amazing McDavid scoring has them FOUR points better...Calgary is good defensively they just can't get a save.

What good teams starter is in the .800s?

30th in shots blocked like its a bad thing lol...its because the other team doesn't have the puck, Sens went 20 mins without a shot

Flames wouldn't be perfect with average goaltending...they would be leading the division though

Yes, I cherry picked some stats that is true. And there are some things they are doing well. But to me stats like not blocking shots enough and leading the league in low danger shots are a function of not having the will to win. Not having the guts to drive to the middle of the ice because it’s hard, and having lousy special teams is also extremely unhelpful. Doesn’t help that the coaching staff refuses to make the glaringly obvious adjustments to all the obvious facets of their game they need to. There is no reason, for example, Andersson should be QBing the PP, he is way too predictable, and he never takes the shot when he should.

Markstrom has been bad. It is true they need to move on from this thought experiment. I would absolutely support bringing up Wolf and I think you can send Markstrom down and he won’t be claimed, and if he is it’s a win. Maybe the AHL can boost his confidence a bit too. Virtually all the players they’ve brought up from the farm have outplayed the NHL “vets” this season. Maybe time to start really pouring that on, although I have been happy with their starting to play more and more rookies. And what do you know? They frequently are their hardest working, best players.

Also, yeah, the Oilers are 4 pts better but theoretically pound for pound the Flames were supposed to have the far superior team depth, weren’t they? The Flames should be embarrassed where they are. So many squandered points. They truly do not deserve to be in a playoff spot right now.

[Poe969]

You know what, this team is a Luke Schenn away from being a contender. They should give up assets for Luke Schenn, and that'll fix everything!

[Locke]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

He’s at 0.25 wins about replacement.

Unfortunately, our other option is at -0.33 wins above replacement.

So pretty good argument to bring up Wolf and see what he can do… because it’s unlikely it could be worse.

Goalies with worse stats have gotten wins against us.

[TrentCrimmIndependent]

I'd love to see us sell the likes of Lindholm and Hanifin (who are expiring next year) for picks and assets, use one to package with Markstrom and ship him out, and recall Wolf to see what he has

and then re-assess after the season

but, you know, in a dream world where the organization is run by more patient, intellectually honest, and bigger picture-oriented people

think of what having three 1st round picks in this strong draft would do for your team's outlook

[Ferarri]

Originally Posted by Naitix

Meh they played good, it’s a high offence team so no surprise they tied it. Markstrom should have saved some of those, don’t think Vladar is the answer either, try Wolf

Not attacking you as a poster, but this is the type of attitude from the coaching staff that has us in this mess. “We played a good game, but ran out of gas tonight” is what Sutter said. I don’t care if you dominate the shot clock, because at the end of the day the only thing that matters is two points. Sutter himself said last year that he’s only impressed with W’s. It’s like the coaches are trying to justify their jobs with stats that are irrelevant to the overall goal of getting wins. Playing a good game is certainly important but decisions are being made which hinder our ability to get the job done. In the absence of a captain I look at Sutter as the catalyst to get this team going (being a two time cup winner) and he is failing this group.

I won’t get into many details as to what needs to be done as many posters have articulated this better than I can but it definitely starts in net. This isn’t October anymore and we don’t have the luxury of letting Markstrom “figure it out” and having a longer leash. Being in mid February we can all see what he can bring to the table this season. It’s not good enough and a tough decision about his starts needs to occur now.

Sure it’s not ideal to bench your 6 million dollar starter, and there was a time where you extend the leash, but it’s over at this point. If he’s not capable of seeing that then perhaps the voices from above need to get involved. If there is still a continuation of trying to fit a square peg in a round hole then it’s time to bring in somebody who will embrace a winning philosophy.

Quite a few players have underperformed but this bs of playing your “boys” and riding a goalie who’s having an awful season needs to end. Sutter has the experience to be better but perhaps the ego is just too big at this point. Fans only care about W’s too so start doing what it takes to deliver.

[Manhattanboy]

Originally Posted by Goriders

Keep this in mind.

Markstrom got paid $73,171.00 tonight.

Yup. But there’s still the human element.

Doubt he’s sleeping on the plane. He’s probably sitting there wide awake thinking man I absolutely suck, nothing I do works and I’m failing the team miserably.

Then he gets home, greets his fiancé and says honey I absolutely suck, nothing I do works and I’m failing the team miserably.

Far from happy times.

[GioforPM]

Man, I don’t usually take losses hard. This was a real downer though. Probably because all signed pointed to “hey maybe they are good’. And then collapse. The funny thing is you could objectively see it as a really good game with a bad ending, but it sure felt like a sign of how they are to me.