[Trade] Monahan and conditional 2025 1st to Montreal for future considerations

[Titan2]

Originally Posted by indes

Let's get Gallagher over here please.

I am catching up so I assume someone else says this but imagine a team with Gallagher and Kadri? Imagine.

Might as well add Marchand for the tri-fecta!

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Dube outscored Hoffman last year. So did Coleman. And Hoffman was playing top line with Suzuki while Coleman was glued to Backlund and Dube played most of his minutes with Monahan (and the Jarnkrok).

Neither of those guys score squat on the Habs last year. There is a reason why Hoffman who has been a high goal scorer his whole career has troubles, so did everyone on that crap roster

[djsFlames]

Money has to make sense for Kadri.

Given how epic Treliving has been with his last trade being a first-ever sign and trade and biggest in the cap era, I bet this is a three team deal with all kinds of pieces being exchanged.

Treiving is trailblazing this summer.

[chedder]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Dube outscored Hoffman last year. So did Coleman. And Hoffman was playing top line with Suzuki while Coleman was glued to Backlund and Dube played most of his minutes with Monahan (and the Jarnkrok).

Hoffman outscored both Dube and Coleman. 35 points vs 32 and 33. In 12 and 14 less games played.

(Unless you're just talking goals but even then it was only by one and 3 in at least 12 less games)

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

Neither of those guys score squat on the Habs last year. There is a reason why Hoffman who has been a high goal scorer his whole career has troubles, so did everyone on that crap roster

I think Dube would have done quite well skating beside Suzuki. And Coleman scored 20 on a terrible Devils team.

[OptimalTates]

A first to get rid of Monahan doesn't seem ideal when Lucic should be moveable for far less given his salary (league minimum practically because of Edmonton) and usefullness as a veteran fourth liner with a cup. Because of those latter reasons I'm also happy if the Flames hold onto Lucic and move Monahan for something less than a first.

I do think if the Flames move a first to get rid of Monahan that this is owner influence. They have made it known they don't like paying for players to play elsewhere (Lucic's signing bonus), and have shed dead salary in bad trades before (Kotalik).

With Monahan they are looking at about a 95M roster in actual salary this year (assuming Kadri is making 7M in salary this year) so I can understand them trying to cut cost, but this is where Toronto and New York's infinite money would be nice as they would just be moving Lucic if they were in the exact same situation.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by chedder

Hoffman outscored both Dube and Coleman. 35 points vs 32 and 33. In 12 and 14 less games played. (Unless you're just talking goals)

I was just talking goals since DT was talking about him being a sniper.

[bax]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

Yes, whatever would the Flames want with a 30 goal RW when they have a hole at RW?

I’m down to add a 30 goal scorer, but Hoffman hasn’t done that since 2019.

Even when he is scoring he hurts you everywhere else on the ice. He is a liability. That scoring slips and he is better in the press box than on the ice.

For 4.5 million for 2 seasons I think that money could be easily spent elsewhere for a better return.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by OptimalTates

A first to get rid of Monahan doesn't seem ideal when Lucic should be moveable for far less given his salary (league minimum practically because of Edmonton) and usefullness as a veteran fourth liner with a cup. Because of those latter reasons I'm also happy if the Flames hold onto Lucic and move Monahan for something less than a first.

I do think if the Flames move a first to get rid of Monahan that this is owner influence. They have made it known they don't like paying for players to play elsewhere (Lucic's signing bonus), and have shed dead salary in bad trades before (Kotalik).

With Monahan they are looking at about a 95M roster in actual salary this year (assuming Kadri is making 7M in salary this year) so I can understand them trying to cut cost, but this is where Toronto and New York's infinite money would be nice as they would just be moving Lucic if they were in the exact same situation.

I think it's because that's the deal that was available.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by OptimalTates

A first to get rid of Monahan doesn't seem ideal when Lucic should be moveable for far less given his salary (league minimum practically because of Edmonton) and usefullness as a veteran fourth liner with a cup. Because of those latter reasons I'm also happy if the Flames hold onto Lucic and move Monahan for something less than a first.

I do think if the Flames move a first to get rid of Monahan that this is owner influence. They have made it known they don't like paying for players to play elsewhere (Lucic's signing bonus), and have shed dead salary in bad trades before (Kotalik).

With Monahan they are looking at about a 95M roster in actual salary this year (assuming Kadri is making 7M in salary this year) so I can understand them trying to cut cost, but this is where Toronto and New York's infinite money would be nice as they would just be moving Lucic if they were in the exact same situation.

You are assuming Lucic can be moved. It has to be to a team that wants him solely to reach the cap floor and on a team he'll approve a trade to. Those may be short lists with no intersecting point.

[OptimalTates]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

I think it's because that's the deal that was available.

I'm sure of the minimum ten teams that Lucic would be available for, at least one of them would take Lucic + 2nd for future considerations. Almost certainly. And since it's not my money, I would very much rather do that than Monahan + 1st for future considerations.

But I bet the owners of the Flames signed off on Kadri's contract with the understand that Treleving would be able to reduce the salary expenditure by an agreeable amount, like say under 90M this year. Moving Lucic doesn't accomplish that. Monahan does.

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

I think it's because that's the deal that was available.

All comes down to movement clauses. Lucic puts 10 contenders on his list and he has a nmc

[OptimalTates]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

You are assuming Lucic can be moved. It has to be to a team that wants him solely to reach the cap floor and on a team he'll approve a trade to. Those may be short lists with no intersecting point.

He has a ten team trade list. He makes under a million. Seems obviously he's more moveable than Monahan. I don't thin a team needs to reach the cap, they just need to be under if they acquire Lucic.

Like I said, if the Flames had infinite money I think Lucic gets moved but as this is a business I can't fault them for moving actual salary in Monahan but it does seem like owner interference. No different than Kotalik being added at the expense of a 2nd or whatever.

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by OptimalTates

I'm sure of the minimum ten teams that Lucic would be available for, at least one of them would take Lucic + 2nd for future considerations. Almost certainly. And since it's not my money, I would very much rather do that than Monahan + 1st for future considerations.

But I bet the owners of the Flames signed off on Kadri's contract with the understand that Treleving would be able to reduce the salary expenditure by an agreeable amount, like say under 90M this year. Moving Lucic doesn't accomplish that. Monahan does.

The narratives people make up with zero info are great lop. Much easier to believe Lucic doesn't want to move and only put teams on there that wouldn't take him.

[OptimalTates]

Originally Posted by Bonded

The narratives people make up with zero info are great lop. Much easier to believe Lucic doesn't want to move and only put teams on there that wouldn't take him.

Why is that easier to believe than a business wanting to reduce it's costs? Like it's not an insult or anything.

"I bet they moved Monahan because they could reduce their payroll by 5M more compared than moving Lucic"

"Wow, way to base that on no info. Lucic probably just made it impossible to move and sabotaged the Flames by doing it."

Like which one is using "no info" to come up with something there?

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by bax

I’m down to add a 30 goal scorer, but Hoffman hasn’t done that since 2019.

Even when he is scoring he hurts you everywhere else on the ice. He is a liability. That scoring slips and he is better in the press box than on the ice.

For 4.5 million for 2 seasons I think that money could be easily spent elsewhere for a better return.

Fair enough.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by Bonded

The narratives people make up with zero info are great lop. Much easier to believe Lucic doesn't want to move and only put teams on there that wouldn't take him.

It's not the first time that it's been speculated that the Flames didn't like to correct errors by paying lots more than the actual cap in salaries. It's one reason why the Lucic deal was so palatable to them, they saved actual millions of dollars.

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by OptimalTates

Why is that easier to believe than a business wanting to reduce it's costs? Like it's not an insult or anything.

Tre has been sharp on trading and is going all in. He'd rather have another 1st to get a player. Finally, Monahan has the chance to rebound and has more utility to the Flames. Murray is all about get to the playoffs and see what happens. Why pay more to dump a player that has better chance to contribute

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

It's not the first time that it's been speculated that the Flames didn't like to correct errors by paying lots more than the actual cap in salaries. It's one reason why the Lucic deal was so palatable to them, they saved actual millions of dollars.

I thought that was more related to not wanting another buyout which was really the best choice all along.

[OptimalTates]

We 100% saw it in the Kotalik trade.

At the time you could place a player in the AHL and have his entire cap disappear. The Flames though included Kotalik in the Regehr deal as a "negative" because, unlike the extreme have teams, they do have to work within a budget. Even if that budget is at times over the cap.

They could have kept Kotalik in the AHL but, I believe, it was widely reported and accepted that they included a 2nd round pick in the Regehr deal for Buffalo to take Kotalik. Buffalo at the time being a have team who was just acquired by a billionaire throwing money at his new toy.