Post Mortem : What happens now?

[Azhouse]

Originally Posted by Harry Lime

Potential steals out there... Shane Pinto, Vitali Kravtsov, Filip Zadina, Grigori Denisenko... those guys jump off the page as being older prospects that have the ability but have not put it all together. The idea of looking for a pick plus one of these players added would be an enticing prospect.

I gotta say… I’ve never heard of any of these dudes?!?!

[Azhouse]

Originally Posted by GullFoss

Johnny-lindholm-tkachuk
Mangiapane-Monny-Coleman
Dube-Backlund-Taffoli
Pelletier-Ruzicka-Jarnkrok
Lewis

Hanifin-andersson
Tanev-Kylington
Valimaki-Mackey
.

I like your fourth line. Speed on all lines. The days of a plodding grinding physical fourth line are over. We need speed throughout the lineup.

[Harry Lime]

Originally Posted by Azhouse

I gotta say… I’ve never heard of any of these dudes?!?!

Pinto could end up a beast, but the rest are Mangiapane style upside secondary scorers, if they continue their trajectory. A short list of 'who could break out next season'!

[Macman]

Originally Posted by Azhouse

I gotta say… I’ve never heard of any of these dudes?!?!

That’s why it’s imperative that the Flames re-sign both Gaudreau and Tkachuk. If even one of them leaves it will be a setback. It really keeps the Flames as a top team and contender for at least a few more years.

Sign these two and get the arena deal finalized and built, this is what needs to be done in my view.

[puckbrain]

Originally Posted by CroFlames

I am not campaigning for a rebuild.

But I have become jealous of clubs who won the right to draft bonafide stars.

Tampa - Hedman, Stamkos.
Pens - Crosby, Malkin.
Caps - Ovi
Leafs - Matthews.
Avs - Mack & Makar.
Oilers - McDrai+++.

It would be nice if once we fell ass backwards into a Connor Bedard or Shane Wright level of player.

Seeing Makar and McDrai absolutely light up the playoffs makes me sad. I love Johnny, but he's not those guys. The blown call last night left such a bad taste in my mouth; I'm really understanding a lot of the posters now who are saying they are taking a break or leaving the NHL product for good. Iginla was my all-time favorite player, and I never "took him for granted" but I guess I should have enjoyed his dominance more.

The cost to go to a game is insane, and there are other entertainment products in Calgary. Cavalry is tons of fun, and Canada's national team is soaring right now. I don't know, I'm just really disappointed how last night went down. This series should be going to Edmonton 3-2 right now.

stuff like what you said could be the reason the flames may relocate if they can't get that arena built...

[Flamesfan05]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

A weak Oilers team? The same team who has 2 players having a historic playoff run scoring points at will

There are a lot of guys who played more minutes who didn’t score 50 and 48 points last season.

Take a 5 game sample size and throw out the other 89 games then?

Neither guy is a franchise D but neither guy is even paid like a first pairing Dman. Both are great value for the contract and have upside to get better as Dmen typically do no peak until their 25-30 year old seasons

Yes Oilers is a very weak team my friend. They have holes all over the place….even more holes than the Flames

If Hanifin and Andersson can’t handle the Oilers, they wouldn’t be able to handle a contender. Mackinnon and Makar would make them look like clown

I never said they are no good. The Flames need better 1st pair which they are clearly not. Not good 1st pair anyway

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by Flamesfan05

Yes Oilers is a very weak team my friend. They have holes all over the place….even more holes than the Flames

If Hanifin and Andersson can’t handle the Oilers, they wouldn’t be able to handle a contender. Mackinnon and Makar would make them look like clown

I never said they are no good. The Flames need better 1st pair which they are clearly not. Not good 1st pair anyway

MacKinnon and Makar are no better than McDavid or Draisaitl those are 4 of the very best players in the league.

Ultimately the Flames finished the season top 3 in goals against and that pairing had 98pts combined. Both are 25 with room to grow and paid like second pairing guys. This was both players first year being a top pair. I think they can be better after going through that experience of this season

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by GordonBlue

This is a comment I see a lot that I don't really understand.
When fans decide a team should get rid of a player that just isn't good enough, they say it's time to sell high. How is it selling high if the other teams are likely more aware of a players problems than the fans are?

I think that when fans believe it's time to sell high, it's too late to do so.

Yes, but the true desire to remove said player is his cap hit. Ultimately, the return is secondary and determined by the market.

This team has no cap flexibility and Treliving will have to make tough choices. Dropping Hanifin is a tough choice, but may be necessary if it comes down to signing Gaudreau, Tkachuk, Mangiapane and improving the team.

As Tre said, he’s willing to move “heaven and earth.” Pretty sure that wasn’t just Monahan and/or Lucic he was talking about.


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[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by GullFoss

If Lucic retires after collecting his $3m signing bonus and it doesnt count against the cap, the flames arent going to have much trouble resigning and keeping Johnny, Tkachuk, Kylington and Mangiapane. They also wouldnt have to buy out Monahan.

They'd also be in a situation where they don't have a single "bad" contract. That in and of itself should convince Tkachuk and Johnny to come back, as it suggests the team will be positioned to contend for as long as Johnny and Tkachuk are playing at a high level.

Johnny-lindholm-tkachuk
Mangiapane-Monny-Coleman
Dube-Backlund-Taffoli
Pelletier-Ruzicka-Jarnkrok
Lewis

Hanifin-andersson
Tanev-Kylington
Valimaki-Mackey

This would be a team that is genuinely 12 forwards deep with a high quality top-6. The only knock would be no "generational quality" player. But there's enough talent to overcome that by committee.

I’m pretty sure that if any random player retires right after collecting his signing bonus and not playing the season, that team can then take that player to court to pursue the losses from the bonus.

Why would Lucic put himself into this position? Why not just play the season out? Did he hate hockey so much this past season? Does he hate the coach? His teammates? The city? I don’t think any of this applies to Lucic nor have we heard anything about him retiring after his contract is over? Seems more like us fans want him to retire (for obvious reasons} rather than the player himself.

Lastly, I would consider Monahan a bad contract. $6.3M is a lot of money to pay for Monahan’s production. Unfortunately, I don’t think management has the assets or the appetite to entice other teams to take on both Lucic and Monahan’s contracts. One thing that hasn’t been factored at all in any of the discussions I’ve seen is how good this UFA class is. It’s hard for me to see why a team would want Monahan or Lucic’s contracts when there’s so many better UFA forwards available this summer who can be had at the same price.


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[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by Classic_Sniper

I’m pretty sure that if any random player retires right after collecting his signing bonus and not playing the season, that team can then take that player to court to pursue the losses from the bonus.

Why would Lucic put himself into this position? Why not just play the season out? Did he hate hockey so much this past season? Does he hate the coach? His teammates? The city? I don’t think any of this applies to Lucic nor have we heard anything about him retiring after his contract is over? Seems more like us fans want him to retire (for obvious reasons} rather than the player himself.

Lastly, I would consider Monahan a bad contract. $6.3M is a lot of money to pay for Monahan’s production. Unfortunately, I don’t think management has the assets or the appetite to entice other teams to take on both Lucic and Monahan’s contracts. One thing that hasn’t been factored at all in any of the discussions I’ve seen is how good this UFA class is. It’s hard for me to see why a team would want Monahan or Lucic’s contracts when there’s so many better UFA forwards available this summer who can be had at the same price.


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Lucic could be wanted by a team trying to hit the cap floor, with only $1M owing and a large cap hit.

Would he waive?

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Classic_Sniper

I’m pretty sure that if any random player retires right after collecting his signing bonus and not playing the season, that team can then take that player to court to pursue the losses from the bonus.

Why would Lucic put himself into this position? Why not just play the season out? Did he hate hockey so much this past season? Does he hate the coach? His teammates? The city? I don’t think any of this applies to Lucic nor have we heard anything about him retiring after his contract is over? Seems more like us fans want him to retire (for obvious reasons} rather than the player himself.

Lastly, I would consider Monahan a bad contract. $6.3M is a lot of money to pay for Monahan’s production. Unfortunately, I don’t think management has the assets or the appetite to entice other teams to take on both Lucic and Monahan’s contracts. One thing that hasn’t been factored at all in any of the discussions I’ve seen is how good this UFA class is. It’s hard for me to see why a team would want Monahan or Lucic’s contracts when there’s so many better UFA forwards available this summer who can be had at the same price.


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Why would the Flames do this? (they wouldn't) There is literally zero risk of this. And more than that, Lucic and the team would actually, you know, talk about the situation through the summer.

If he wanted to take his bonus and go home, I am pretty sure the Flames would be totally fine with it.

[GullFoss]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Why would the Flames do this? (they wouldn't) There is literally zero risk of this. And more than that, Lucic and the team would actually, you know, talk about the situation through the summer.

If he wanted to take his bonus and go home, I am pretty sure the Flames would be totally fine with it.

The Flames would actively encourage it lol

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

Lucic could be wanted by a team trying to hit the cap floor, with only $1M owing and a large cap hit.

Would he waive?

If I was him, I wouldn’t. There’s literally no upside to moving other the Flames gaining cap space and if he’s traded from the team anyway, why would he care whether the Flames had more cap space or not.

In terms of upsides to staying out: His family is settled, team is good, he has friends to play with, he has a role, he seems happy.


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[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Why would the Flames do this? (they wouldn't) There is literally zero risk of this. And more than that, Lucic and the team would actually, you know, talk about the situation through the summer.

If he wanted to take his bonus and go home, I am pretty sure the Flames would be totally fine with it.

This would be problem, a big problem actually. Naturally us fans and the GM would absolutely welcome this due to the obvious net benefit, but think about the precedent this would set if the Flames were to just say “meh, cya.”

If this was permissible, why wouldn’t all teams structure their cap with a mega bonus at the end so they can circumvent the cap because that’s exactly what this would be, cap circumvention. It’s probably the same reason why it’s so hard to find an example because we’ve never seen a case like this as all the other GMs in the league wouldn’t accept it.

Ultimately, this is what Treliving signed up for when he traded for Looch’s contract. He knew full well that these final years would not be pretty and Brad needed to work around it. Face it everyone, Lucic isn’t retiring and his no trade clause is a pain in the ass. Treliving as he said will move “heaven and earth” to re-sign who he needs to re-sign and if that comes at the cost of a good player or 2, then it shouldn’t come as a surprise.


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[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Classic_Sniper

This would be problem, a big problem actually. Naturally us fans and the GM would absolutely welcome this due to the obvious net benefit, but think about the precedent this would set if the Flames were to just say “meh, cya.”

If this was permissible, why wouldn’t all teams structure their cap with a mega bonus at the end so they can circumvent the cap because that’s exactly what this would be, cap circumvention. It’s probably the same reason why it’s so hard to find an example because we’ve never seen a case like this as all the other GMs in the league wouldn’t accept it.

Ultimately, this is what Treliving signed up for when he traded for Looch’s contract. He knew full well that these final years would not be pretty and Brad needed to work around it. Face it everyone, Lucic isn’t retiring and his no trade clause is a pain in the ass. Treliving as he said will move “heaven and earth” to re-sign who he needs to re-sign and if that comes at the cost of a good player or 2, then it shouldn’t come as a surprise.


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You're just arguing for argument's sake at this point. If Lucic wanted to retire, there is absolutely nothing shady or underhanded, or precedent-setting about the Flames letting him do so.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Classic_Sniper

If I was him, I wouldn’t. There’s literally no upside to moving other the Flames gaining cap space and if he’s traded from the team anyway, why would he care whether the Flames had more cap space or not.

In terms of upsides to staying out: His family is settled, team is good, he has friends to play with, he has a role, he seems happy.


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Players are aware - very aware - of fan perceptions. Yes, his family is settled, but as far as not waving, and forcing himself onto the Flames roster, most players wouldn't do that, as it would be an uncomfortable situation. More uncomfortable than playing somewhere else for a year. And certainly more uncomfortable than retiring and foregoing $1M in salary.

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

You're just arguing for argument's sake at this point. If Lucic wanted to retire, there is absolutely nothing shady or underhanded, or precedent-setting about the Flames letting him do so.

Yup, Lucic was pretty close to retiring in Edmonton, so it isn't crazy. Big guy with a back condition that plays a tough game and doesn’t need to chase a cup. I could see him hanging it up if the Flames are good with him taking the bonus and retiring.

[Hot_Flatus]

Originally Posted by puckbrain

stuff like what you said could be the reason the flames may relocate if they can't get that arena built...

The truth of the scenario right now is that a huge percentage of fans now have no interest in attending playoff games at the current prices because it's poor value. When you pay exorbitant prices with your hard earned money to watch a game that gets derailed by inexcusably poor officiating, it leaves a pretty foul taste in your mouth (or at least it should).

Sooner or later this will start influencing decisions to attend games versus spending your sports and recreation money elsewhere. Could I afford to have attended a few playoff games this year, sure. But I'm not a big fan of dropping anywhere from $250-$500 for 3 hours of entertainment that is now pushed to ridiculously late starting times on weeknights, and may just get blown up by bush league officiating.

When the alternative is to watch at home or a bar with the company of friends and family at a fraction of the cost - it's a no-brainer. I know that I'm not alone in this sentiment and it should really worry the NHL if this becomes increasingly more the norm.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by Bonded

Yup, Lucic was pretty close to retiring in Edmonton, so it isn't crazy.

He was hating his time in Edmonton, I think he loves playing in Calgary.

And saying he was thinking of retiring and actually retiring can be two complete different things.

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

You're just arguing for argument's sake at this point. If Lucic wanted to retire, there is absolutely nothing shady or underhanded, or precedent-setting about the Flames letting him do so.

No I’m not, I’m arguing about the constant pining around here that the Flames will solve their cap troubles with the sudden retirement of Milan Lucic when there’s been no indication at all regarding this being his last season. I haven’t heard his name linked to retirement even once by any reputable source. The closest we heard was miserable under Bill Peters which doesn’t seem to be the case now. He actually looks pretty content still playing the game.

For me, I’m just being realistic. I don’t expect any miracle retirements to come about or anything of that sorts to save the team’s cap crunch. I’ve already accepted the idea that management could end up trading some good players this offseason, it was inevitable based on how Treliving’s window was set up.


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