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Old 12-10-2021, 10:01 PM   #321
GGG
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That song is awesome though so not sure how it fits your point.
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Old 12-10-2021, 10:04 PM   #322
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Like I mentioned the last time the debate came up, I don't trust google reviews anyway. After seeing how easily a known scammer in Calgary was able to get google to remove negative reviews while leaving the obvious paid and friend/family reviews, skewing his results back to 4.5+. Whole system is a joke
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Old 12-10-2021, 10:10 PM   #323
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Still going, eh?

lol, so confidently incorrect. I love how you see yourself, though. Ya got it all figured out.

Good job, tiger.
Hey, I'm not the one who came into FG's hot tub thread and made it about me being the victim.
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Old 12-10-2021, 10:15 PM   #324
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Like I mentioned the last time the debate came up, I don't trust google reviews anyway. After seeing how easily a known scammer in Calgary was able to get google to remove negative reviews while leaving the obvious paid and friend/family reviews, skewing his results back to 4.5+. Whole system is a joke
Exactly. And by only giving 5 star reviews, sliver is perpetuating that system. His reviews are no different than the fake/paid reviews. Everyone knows only the 2-4 star reviews matter. 1 star reviews are fake and 5 star reviews are paid for.
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Old 12-10-2021, 10:17 PM   #325
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That song is awesome though so not sure how it fits your point.
I never really understood would made that song any worse than the other tropey, crappy, autotune heavy pop songs of the time.
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Old 12-10-2021, 10:39 PM   #326
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Exactly. And by only giving 5 star reviews, sliver is perpetuating that system. His reviews are no different than the fake/paid reviews. Everyone knows only the 2-4 star reviews matter. 1 star reviews are fake and 5 star reviews are paid for.
Exactly, and read some reviews if the purchase matters. There’s good information to be had if you know how to sort through the noise. Very often you’ll find a bunch of legitimate-seeming reviews all say something similar. I’ve bought lower rated stuff because I wasn’t concerned with what everyone else was complaining about in the reviews.
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Old 12-10-2021, 10:50 PM   #327
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The best way to determine if a bad review has merit, is if the owner responds all pissy about it.
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Old 12-10-2021, 11:32 PM   #328
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I have to agree with Sliver on this one. Back when we were on OpenTable I had a regular who always left 4 stars after every visit (without comments) because he'd get an email asking him to review. I had to ask him to quit rating us because it brought down our average. I think he didn't realize that 4 stars is bad if the average is 4.5 but it is.
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Old 12-10-2021, 11:37 PM   #329
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I feel like I'm being psychoanalysed by a couple of cavemen. How can you guys be so egregiously wrong in how you understand a person with a body of work on here as large as mine? It defies all odds. Like, you're so far off I'm embarrassed for you. For real.
So you think your opinion matters more? That sounds like a weighted review algorithm to me. Cool.
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Old 12-11-2021, 03:28 AM   #330
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I have to agree with Sliver on this one. Back when we were on OpenTable I had a regular who always left 4 stars after every visit (without comments) because he'd get an email asking him to review. I had to ask him to quit rating us because it brought down our average. I think he didn't realize that 4 stars is bad if the average is 4.5 but it is.
Did you ever ask what would get his ranking to a 5?
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Old 12-11-2021, 04:04 AM   #331
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Lot of vitriol in here. Lol

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Old 12-11-2021, 04:28 AM   #332
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Nm

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Old 12-11-2021, 05:31 AM   #333
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The best way to determine if a bad review has merit, is if the owner responds all pissy about it.
I'd agree with this. If I see a business that's sitting around 4.0 to 4.5 and I open up the 1.0 star reviews just to see the owner losing it on previous customers, I would think twice about spending money there. If it's paragraphs of vindictive crap that's including personal information you can bet that even above 4 stars I'd be steering clear. And the weight I put into reviews like this would increase with the amount of money I'm looking to spend there.

Most people in this thread realize that there are idiots out there that just can't be pleased or even situations that arise in business where there really is no solution that will rectify a negative experience. But when those come up I'd be looking for a post from the owner that simply says "Hey, really sorry we couldn't make things right on this one. We really tried our best but will take a closer look at our policies to ensure this kind of thing won't happen again."
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Old 12-11-2021, 10:26 AM   #334
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Did you ever ask what would get his ranking to a 5?
Right? Like maybe it’s only a 4 star business. What he was asking his regular to do was either lie or not participate so they could keep their artificially high and potentially inaccurate rating.
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Old 12-11-2021, 11:20 AM   #335
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Maybe make it 10 stars like IMDB. That way perfection is unrealistic and the 1 stars are more diluted. Anything over an 8 is usually pretty good…
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Old 12-11-2021, 02:00 PM   #336
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Did you ever ask what would get his ranking to a 5?
No I didn't because it was obvious he thought 4 was a favourable rating.

4 stars on Yelp is decent but anything less than 4.5 on Opentable you're at the bottom of the pack. I suspected that it's because it's so easy to game the system on Opentable. I never did because I'm too cheap to make a bogus reservation just to up my ratings. But you usually tell who does, they are the ones who have way more reviews than anyone else.
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Old 12-11-2021, 02:57 PM   #337
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No I didn't because it was obvious he thought 4 was a favourable rating.

4 stars on Yelp is decent but anything less than 4.5 on Opentable you're at the bottom of the pack. I suspected that it's because it's so easy to game the system on Opentable. I never did because I'm too cheap to make a bogus reservation just to up my ratings. But you usually tell who does, they are the ones who have way more reviews than anyone else.
So the client didn’t give you a perfect 5, is a regular , and you’ve never asked what you could do to make their experience a 5?

Mind blown
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Old 12-11-2021, 09:36 PM   #338
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Hotels with like 1400 reviews tend to land on something that is fair and generally representative of reality.

Small business with like 10 - 30 reviews can get skewed/crucified with just one or two vindictive customers that get one or two of their friends to one-star you.

Maybe a change Google could make would be to not display any stars at all until a business reaches like 100 reviews over the last six months or something. So people have to read the reviews and come to their own conclusions.
I don't know how reviews are weighted, but if a business had 30 reviews and 28 were 5-star and there were 2 1-star reviews, that still puts it at a solid 4/4.5/5 depending if how they round things.

Still, I'd rather get rid of the numeric review and go with actual reviews of either process or the quality of the product, etc. And no proof of purchase, no review.
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Old 12-11-2021, 10:06 PM   #339
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This thread is funny. Back to the OP. As a society, we have many mechanisms in place for legitimate disputes and business that are acting in a manner untoward or deceptive.

You can easily file in small claims court and rely on the justice system. Also, a lot of our courts move beyond the defined hard limits of law for mediation or middle ground. For two parties whether in a business transaction or many other matters to meet in the middle.

I'd say most small businesses don't need the above. However, the consumer is being trained by big tech to be spiteful, hateful and exact judgement instantly.

As a business owner, it's in my best interest to put and gravitate around my customer but also the wonderful people that work for me and also for myself to create and add value for my customers.

Believe it or not, this is one of the greatest things about being a small business. Yet people who don't want to be objective just go into a fury.

This probably doesn't mean a lot to some of you but my give a #### factor is 12/10. Google can't rate that.

When a jerk company that rules the world (98% ad revenue) sets out a design to affront that and we bring it up and people defend them, it makes me wonder. Who made Google the judge and executioner but even scarier, why do people support them and call them fair.

At least Yellow Pages had the balls to say when you search we give you the person who paid the most, I respect that.

The simple complaints about the google monopoly (which anyone must agree, they are facing federal scrutiny in the US; but some of you won't agree because you just need to be contrary or eat big tech cake). Or maybe you are going to be intregrated into Zucker Meta. These companies are so off base, literally defending them is asking for your brain to be sucked out of your head. It's cool if you want that.

If you are not listed on google you are deleted, the definition of utility should not be in the hands of the private sector. I.e. if your electric was cut off because of your religion.

So monopolistically you are subject to playing by their rulebook, thus allowing them to keep anonymous fake reviews, that can be fake, false and racist in nature as marks against people trying to provide service and goods at a small business level.

Believe it or not, my small business has stellar ratings. So why am I complaining? Why am I posting this message?

I value my employees so much, my outrage for personal attacks on these social media services that are lauded because of their social economic position, the commentary on the way they look disgust me or sexual orientation. Their legal departments ignore defamation and slander and say,

WE HAVE MORE MONEY THEN YOU WILL EVER HAVE TRY US OUT. That is the basis of their unethical mechanism built on their model of the simple man being able to review for spite.

Facebook, one of those monopolistic companies has been exposed for their terrible conduct and using user information to fight back against the user.

Supporting global monopolies that have the chips stacked in their favour put you in jeopardy of being encouraged to be the mob. They want you to feel you can put anyone in the shackles, and toss your rotten vegetables at. If you align with this, you deserve the future you create. Cancel culture works outside the law, outside fair and is brutal MOB mentality.

I know some of you are going to respond to this, but please look up the definition of slander and defamation. It's a law that used to exist before these guys came in and with their size and power. You can't defame, slander or run people down but social media has injected that fervour into our society at their benefit. You can guise it as a protection for your right to rate a movie, but lets face it, our culture has shifted to the take down or ability to judge as our last little respite of supposed freedom.

Simply put, without throwback, if you don't have anything nice to say... but that value is long gone. Instead, it's about an individual who runs a small business getting a permanent mark on his forehead with no contestation or court or fair evaluation. It's kind of like a drive by shooting. I'm sure a 1 star person doesn't remember they did it. Most five star remember, because they actually loved their experience/product.

Why not reach out and work through it. Also, as a small business owner, we are openly active to input but we prefer it to be in person and direct. Or maybe via text or over the phone if that is easier.

We don't run away from our responsibilities we're engaged. The cancel culture is about getting out a magnifying glass to find and poison the well of anything good.

That's why nothing will come of this thread, because it's not a discussion, it's mostly posturing anonymously, proving the point that anonymous communication leads to no communication and fortified by unwillingness to be genuine.

The fabric and social nature of society is being connected locally, but look at the raisin hate for your local providers raising an issue. Pariah status for the minority.

The people that side with Global big tech. I'm like ? confused.

We are not privileged, we are stressed most of the time but we are also a minority but we are also happy for our customers and love to be engaged with them and our heartbeat is in pleasing them.

A lot of posts here pivot to create some kind of hateful, you must have a business, you must not like google therefore your business sucks and the best is I've figured you out as a person?

Simply being a devils advocate or beating your drum without reading or acknowledging any counterpoints is the downfall. Weighing in, without being genuine is exactly the destruction of our society.

I would argue anonymity, lack of community and lack of the benefit of the doubt. Lack of truly engaging a post without a position or thinking about it is just a useless exercise.Working together is a far better way. Instead, counter points are US versus THEM, while ignoring BIG TECH.

Who do you think pushes this agenda in everything you read?

Also, ignoring the mechanisms in place that protect the consumer. We have the Sale of Goods Act in Alberta which is a code of conduct, we have the Fair Trades Act in Alberta, yet many want to undo the legal system for the expediency of cancel culture, playing into the very hands that (up until this year) have evaded paying their fair share of taxes, whether it is GST, tax benefits from local governments (paid at the hand of small business) etc.

Being happy when google tells you what baby food to eat for your mind scares the crap out of me, forget small business reviews. I'm reminded of witch hunts by the Catholic church or book burnings.

True debate is not about championing your position continuously, it's about open mind. Beyond open mind it's about creating some definitions. Google is a monopoly. So is Facebook. Can we start there? What does it mean for you and your children or future children? Maybe you don't have children and you grew up with google as your parent. :-(

What's really disturbing is that the conversation is not a two way conversation here.

No middle ground or even a mental awareness to engage in that. Yet if we were in a coffee shop, you might be a little more open instead of polarizing every freaking post with an aggravated level of just championing the same thing or polarizing a counter point.

So, this long post, you've made it this far. I felt a need to post this because a guy who happened to be on the news for many many years stepped down two nights ago and he did the right thing, and he signed off with this. Let's choose to ignore his warning. Let's choose to be right anonymously and eat our google food.

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/vi...us_inside.html

You know, the institution isn't about the MOB, it isn't about polarizing and especially going after local. Instead so many are proponents of some box they are standing on instead of just being engaged and real and genuine.

Much like taking a walk through your neighbourhood and realizing how wonderful it can be and the people how hard they all work. It all starts there.

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Old 12-11-2021, 10:18 PM   #340
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Are ethics involved when stupidity enters the equation? Should common sense not enter into the mix? Who the #### buys a used hot tub and doesn’t think there is potential for nothing but problems? Maybe look in the mirror before expecting someone else to solve your problem. This is like buying a used car from Farmer Jonez, and complaining it’s a heap of ####. Pay pennies on the dollar and expect pennies on the dollar service and support. You get what you pay for.
If I buy a used item from a company that sells both new and used items, I'd expect more. It's not like he bought a hot tub off Kijiji. If I bought a certified pre-owned vehicle from a dealer, I'd have higher expectations for what I was paying for.
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