Rumour: Blake Coleman to Calgary

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by Toonage

I get the sticker shock but it feels like people are undervaluing Blake Coleman. Flames would be very fortunate to have him on the team. They need more GAS from their players and this guy has it.

Rumors of a 6 year deal at $5M per for a soon to be 30 year old who has averaged 34pts/82 games is way too risky.

[flambers]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

So what first line RW do you recommend he pursue?

A true top line right winger, Blake Coleman is more of a 3rd liner.

He definitely fills a need for the team, but does not help them in terms of 1st line right Winger in my opinion.

High energy player, etc.....

[1qqaaz]

Originally Posted by Fighting Banana Slug

There is a lot to like about Carolina's team, but what exactly are you arguing for? Not a rebuild and shrewd asset management? That is exactly what most of the non burn it to the ground crowd is saying. I get it if you don't think BT can handle it, but that is the strategy.

As for overpaid Colemans, no one has signed him yet. But, he will almost certainly be overpaid as a UFA, we just don't know by how much. Carolina has a few ugly contracts as well. Gardiner is not a good contract. Nino isn't good value either. That, and they have basically half a team to sign. If that half a team is comprised of any UFAs (Dougie?), you can bet there will be a few tough contracts on term or AAV that they'll need to sign. No team is immune from those deals.

I still think a rebuild is probably the best option, but there's no chance the Flames do that right now. Is it a sure thing? No. But nothing is. Generational talents like Bedard pretty much always win cups. Hopefully McDavid is the exception.

So I'm arguing for good asset management. No expensive contracts to old players, and no trading away draft picks for rentals. You're better off letting players walk if they're going to be overpaid. And you're better off trading rentals for picks.

If Nino is your second worst contract, then good job. By the way, it's no coincidence that Carolina's 3 worst contracts are for their 3 oldest players.
I think Dougie should seriously consider re-signing. A lot of his success from from Slavin.

The best way to win the cup is not to be an extremely good team for one year. Rather, it's to be a very good team for several years. If you have a 5% chance of winning the cup for 6 years, you'll have better odds of winning than a team that has a 10% chance of winning for 2 years.
Even good teams have to be good with their long term asset management.

And this is especially important for small town teams or teams with financial burdens. If Carolina has the willpower to avoid paying Hamilton, and Calgary doesn't have the willpower to avoid paying Coleman, I think that says a lot.

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by 1qqaaz

The best way to win the cup is not to be an extremely good team for one year. Rather, it's to be a very good team for several years. If you have a 5% chance of winning the cup for 6 years, you'll have better odds of winning than a team that has a 10% chance of winning for 2 years.
Even good teams have to be good with their long term asset management.

This x 1000

All of the teams that built themselves into legit contenders for multiple years have won a cup in the salary cap era except for San Jose.

Vegas hasn't won either yet I guess, but they've only been in the league 4 years and aren't done yet, plus they've had 3 deep runs in those 4 years now.

You need to be patient and build a contender that has staying power. You can only do that buy drafting/developing well and managing your cap and assets effectively.

[Poe969]

The Flames need to find a team who wants to get rid of a good player. Find a team that will make a bad decision 5o trade away a good player so they can overpay for a UFA and take advantage of them instead of being the team handing out the bad contracts.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Or, the Flames need to find a team that wants to void itself of a player and is willing to add some quality youth to the deal as the sweetener. A great example is St. Louis and Tarasenko. If the guy is healthy and the Blues are willing to deal, opportunity is knocking. A deal like Tkachuk & Kylington for Tarasenko, Kyrou, Neighbors, and a picks (1st or 2nd) makes the team better now and in the future. That's a deal that helps build that depth we're looking for.

[SuperMatt18]

If we trade Tkachuk I want a package similar to the Seth Jones deal (top prospect, 2 1sts) ...and as Lanny said if that requires taking a bit of a bad contract back then do that too.

Then potentially use some of those assets to go get Eichel.

Example:

Tarasenko, Kyrou, Neighbors, 2023 1st for Tkachuk

Then move Monahan, Pelletier, STL 2023 1st, CGY 2022 1st, FLA 2022 2nd, for Eichel

[442scotty]

Another thing about Coleman… this would be a retirement contract! Where have we seen those before…. Neal, Brouwer for starters…. Maybe this guy is different… but the flames aren’t the only team dealing with bad retirement contracts

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Full season he's probably a 20 goal, 45 point man.
Maybe with more opportunity he can be a 25-50 man.
What's the worth now?

close to Backlund numbers.

RFA: $3 - $3M

UFA $4 - $5M

if you think he is going to make a difference to your team, it's a reasonable contract for 4 years and you live with the later years when you get there.

(IF you think he makes a difference to your team. if not, why take the burden?)

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Nelson

Evolving Wild says he should get 4 years * 4.75M. So, I think it’s an overpay by 2 years.

that would be a good contract

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

I used to be a fanatic about all the big four, but salary escalation in the other ones made them unrelateable, and as a result, unwatchable. Paying that much cash for a middling player is insane. These guys are playing a children’s game and making way too much money. They have priced most people out of seeing them live. The NHL is killing itself with these silly salaries. It’s no longer fun to cheer for these guys as they have become nothing but commodities. Some people wonder why this board is so grumpy, well maybe it’s because this team and this league has become easy to dislike rather than easy to fall in love with?

The business and economics of pro sports is not Coleman's fault. Or problem.

[MacDaddy77]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

If we trade Tkachuk I want a package similar to the Seth Jones deal (top prospect, 2 1sts) ...and as Lanny said if that requires taking a bit of a bad contract back then do that too.

Then potentially use some of those assets to go get Eichel.

Example:

Tarasenko, Kyrou, Neighbors, 2022 1st for Tkachuk

Then move Monahan, Pelletier, STL 2023 1st, CGY 2022 1st, FLA 2022 2nd, TOR 2022 3rd for Eichel

If we get STL 2023 1st you keep that pick. Blues ar eon downward trend and that could end up being a Connor Bedard pick

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

If we trade Tkachuk I want a package similar to the Seth Jones deal (top prospect, 2 1sts) ...and as Lanny said if that requires taking a bit of a bad contract back then do that too.

Then potentially use some of those assets to go get Eichel.

Example:

Tarasenko, Kyrou, Neighbors, 2022 1st for Tkachuk

Great move! You've now set up the Flames with two top six RWs, a future center replacement for Backlund, and have an extra bullet in the chamber for 2023. Our depth is greatly improved and we some good depth in our prospect pool and picks coming up in 2022 and 2023.

Then move Monahan, Pelletier, STL 2023 1st, CGY 2022 1st, FLA 2022 2nd, for Eichel

And there goes the depth...

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

Great move! You've now set up the Flames with two top six RWs, a future center replacement for Backlund, and have an extra bullet in the chamber for 2023. Our depth is greatly improved and we some good depth in our prospect pool and picks coming up in 2022 and 2023.





And there goes the depth...

Yeah I personally don't know if I'd do the Eichel move. Just an example of how you can pull it off while remaining asset neutral for the most part.

I do think that if a trade like that is on the table for Tkachuk though they should take it

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by 1qqaaz

The Carolina Hurricanes have made 33 draft picks in the past 3 years. Yes, 33. Averaging 11 per year. For comparison's sake, Falkovsky (2016, turns 25 this year) was the Flames' 33rd most recently drafted pick.
They were 3rd in the NHL by points percentage and goal differential.

They have only had one top 10 pick since 2015.
They have 30 million in cap space. They have only 2 players over 30.

Good asset and cap management can really get you far. Especially when combined with drafting and developing.
Even though they've made bad trades and let people walk for nothing, the sheer discipline of their asset management has turned them into a contender.


If you're not going to tank and rebuild, that's the next option. How many overpaid Colemans do they have? None.

Yes, great asset management. But as a fan, it would suck to have to root for a budget team. So why not both? Imagine the Carolina roster if they used some of that cap space to supplement the roster with UFAs?

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

The business and economics of pro sports is not Coleman's fault. Or problem.

I agree. It is just a frustrating part of the game where all the fun is sucked out of it. The problem is not on the players. The problem is on the GMs and their inability to practice any level of restraint when it comes to this stuff. That's what happens when you have a bunch of guys with GEDs running $100M enterprises. It's frustrating to watch them hand out contracts like this for third line talent because you know the escalation that is sure to follow and what the ripple effect is going to be. A guy that should be getting between $3-4M is likely to be getting $5-6M? It's insanity, unsustainable, and is headed to a place where the fans take the kick in the nuts again. That's what I hate about it.

[Reign of Fire]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

Rumors of a 6 year deal at $5M per for a soon to be 30 year old who has averaged 34pts/82 games is way too risky.

Is that a legit rumor? Wow, that's one way to waste newfound cap space.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by flambers

Agreed,

However he is turning 30 in November.

If he pushes for a 5 year deal, Flames should walk away

The winner of the Blake Coleman sweepstakes is destined to be a loser. I have no doubt that Treliving will be looking at giving him a 5 year deal because this is what bad GM's do. Tampa Bay keeps their core players and wins cups while bad organizations like the Flames overpay their role players to miss the playoffs.

[Sofa GM]

This is why you never see actual contenders chasing free agents to fill holes in their team. They always use free agency to bring in secondary pieces for depth, not as primary pieces.

[Goriders]

Originally Posted by Poe969

The Flames need to find a team who wants to get rid of a good player. Find a team that will make a bad decision 5o trade away a good player so they can overpay for a UFA and take advantage of them instead of being the team handing out the bad contracts.

I took a look at our prospect pool last night.

I think the Flames need to draft and develop better. No one gets to the promised land chasing free agents to fill all of your gaps. You need lower salary quality players to offset the free agent tabs.

You get that through the draft. The Flames prospect list is frighteningly weak. I don’t really see anyone on that list (basing this on the last few game auditions from last season) who would have any impact or likely even make the lineup.

Mackey could probably be a bottom pairing defensman. Pelletier and Zary are probably a few years out. Wolf same comment. Otherwise yeeesh.