I don't think many people actually remember 2004...the Flames were average at best during the regular season, Kipper stole some games and they barely made the playoffs by a few points. They were one bounce away from losing in the first round against a team who's best player was suspended. Things took off and it was great but they weren't some juggernaut.
Fans here often have a rosy view of the past. Those playoffs were very “one of a kind”. Almost the exact same team got bounced in the first round the next season. Though absent a lockout I wonder what would have happened.
Flames need to round out the RW positions. I think they need one more power forward in the lineup as the team is still a bit small. I know of certain posters who will hate this idea, but I'd try Brett Ritchie on Managiapane-Backlund's RW; he's a similar type of player to Lucic and you hope he can give that line the same thing.
I think Derek Ryan would make a very good RW for Gaudreau and Monahan. He's right shot, he can alternate faceoffs with Mony, he's fast and quick enough to keep up with Gaudreau, he's good defensively and in limited time with Johnny, he's also shown some chemistry.
I don't really like any of the remaining players for the RW spot on Tkachuk and Lindholm's line. Leivo isn't quick enough, nor skilled enough. Simon and Norstrom aren't skilled enough. Matthew Phillips might work, but he makes the team real small and you really need Ritchie in the line up.
One guy who I think might make sense to acquire for the Tkachuk-Lindholm line is Virtanen. Big, strong, fast with a good shot. Not the quickest brain, but he'd be playing with two of the better defensive guys. The RW on this line needs to be able to get in quick on the forecheck and bump the puck to Tkahcuk and Lindholm, this suits his size and speed. Then he just needs to get into scoring position and wait for Tkachuk and Lindy to get him the puck. Virtanen has a great shot. Intensity and being engaged is also one of Virtanen's problem, no better linemate than Tkachuk to have him constantly engaged in physical play. I don't know if the acquisition cost is too high.
I like the premise of the post (including the stuff I deleted just to safe space)!
Brett Ritichie on the Mangiapane-Backlund line:
I think that's a solid idea, but I don't think that he either has the smarts or the hands to make it work. Lucic works well on that line because he is smart, and he has always been a good defensive player with solid underlying metrics. Might be worth a shot. If it was Nick Ritchie, that would be great - but Brett doesn't have very many strengths. I think a better bet would be Robinson - he is a good skater, period - but for his size? That's basically an elite-skating big man. I think it is something you try on a shift-by-shift basis at first next time he is inserted into the lineup. I would like to say Rinaldo fits this premise as well - he definitely has the speed - but his hands don't seem to be close. Backlund is pure gold at propping up players and making them better than you can imagine, but I am sure that even he has limits.
Ryan with Gaudreau - Monahan:
I believe this was tried a few times with Peters. It didn't seem to work out at all. I think it is a good idea - Though Ryan is not exactly 'fast', he is mobile enough, and he is definitely smart enough, and that line does need a solid defensive RW'er - he ticks all the boxes except for size, and maybe that's why it never worked? I thought it was a terrible fit, and was just as terrible IIRC as Backlund was on that pairing. Maybe it was only tried when Gaudreau and Monahan weren't doing well, I don't know (and don't remember), but I remember that combo not doing well at all. I think Ryan is a great 4th line centre anyway, and he helps to keep the 4th line's head above water, so I am ok with his utilization. I think what the top line needs is someone fast, some grit to the game, preferably large so he can work well in the corners and (if needed) stick up for Gaudreau, but with decent hands. Ryan meets a lot of those requirements, and I thought he would have looked better than he did on the top line, but it didn't work out.
Tkachuk-Lindholm line:
I think Mangiapane is probably the answer here. However, I will say this about Leivo - he is coming around. I can see why he has produced at certain rates over the course of his career so far - he is skilled. Things haven't been working out for him, but I do think that he is improving and he really looks like to me a guy who is about to 'click'. However, terrible decision by Ward in the previous game to put him out for the PP and at the end of the game. He hasn't clicked yet (and he may never end up clicking). If the Flames can get him going in some way, there are holes that he can help plug on this team.
Virtanen:
Is really an awful player. Did you ever watch Mason Raymond in Calgary and wonder how the heck he ever scored what he did in his career? That's Virtanen. I think if you let him loose and give him solid opportunities, he could score 20 goals a season, but he is going to hurt you while doing it. He doesn't have a brain. He is fast, but he doesn't seem able to think fast enough. Have him skate up and use his shot off a cross-ice pass, and he will score for you, but just like we saw tonight, he seems lost out there all over the ice, and helps to keep his own team hemmed-into their defensive zone. I like his size, speed and physicality, and his shot is decent (not great, but decent) - but it all falls apart downhill after that. Virtanen to me is like the forward version of Dion Phaneuf - basically a perfect tool-set you want, but no toolbox. Worse yet, is that these are not stainless steel tools, and it is starting to rain. That's Virtanen to me.
I am ok with rotating Phillips into the lineup at some point (as I am with Gawdin, and to a lesser extent, Ruzicka), but I also do think that games are going to get more rough and physical. For now, I say rotate through the guys we have for now (including as you mentioned Ritchie, that we haven't seen yet).
If you don't think this team has what it takes to win it all, fine.
If you don't enjoy watching the wins as much as everyone else, fine.
But maybe don't come in and #### all over the team and the posters that do enjoy being a fan? It's simply not interesting to read the same repeated thought ad nauseum.
To be fair this isn't what happened though.
The first guy in this thread to be negative didn't crap all over the team or the posters that enjoy this. He just stated his opinion that he thinks them winning gives the Flames management a reason to sit on their hands and not make changes that are needed.
He was then attacked for his opinion.
..and now the poster who is defending that opinion (somewhat) is being dog piled.
Last edited by Roof-Daddy; 02-16-2021 at 11:18 AM.
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thank you for this, it's what I think about every time this topic of mediocrity is brought up.
and the cycle is broken because since we've won the cup there have only been 16 different cup winners...apparently not everyone gets a turn to win.
I’ve seen the Flames play in 3 cup finals in 35 years. That’s not horrible, compared to a lot of teams, especially since the Flames have never drafted ultra high, and have a lot of barriers to success with UFAs and players with limited NTCs.
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If we are talking about enjoyment let's put a clear line between enjoying a win versus enjoying watching what is happening during the game itself.
Reading here, most did not enjoy the 1st period nor the 3rd. To be sure, those two periods are the ones that Canucks fans enjoyed as their team was either much better (3rd) or were playing with a 2 goal lead.
We enjoyed the end result. With it being an OT winner, we really only got to "relax" and truly enjoy it after the game.
How is that for a logic pretzel
I myself, mostly enjoy the game itself when the team has a sizeable lead and is playing well, wether it is to add to said lead or just sit back and defend it. I can also enjoy a close game or one that they trail slightly when the team is playing well and it looks like they have a chance to win it in the end.
Well, it's not been an enjoyable season LOL.
Well, if you want a no stress game experience you simply wait for the result and then watch the game. That way you can enjoy close games as well. Also, you can skip all the intermissions and commercials.
All in all a value packed hour or so of entertainment.
Location: Wondering when # became hashtag and not a number sign.
Exp:
Quote:
Originally Posted by MillerTime GFG
I literally just said it was commendable that you guys still support them so whole-heartedly, and that I wouldn't stop you.
It's a two-way street though...maybe don't #### all over posters that are more on the negative side? Or as I like to call it, "realistic". If you look at my first post in this thread, it was calling out the people that jumped down Mattman's post.
Sorry...but in what world is it "realistic" to want the team that you cheer for to lose and then not get push back from the fans of that team when you say so?
Herm Edwards sums it up nicely
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If we are talking about enjoyment let's put a clear line between enjoying a win versus enjoying watching what is happening during the game itself.
Reading here, most did not enjoy the 1st period nor the 3rd. To be sure, those two periods are the ones that Canucks fans enjoyed as their team was either much better (3rd) or were playing with a 2 goal lead.
We enjoyed the end result. With it being an OT winner, we really only got to "relax" and truly enjoy it after the game.
How is that for a logic pretzel
I myself, mostly enjoy the game itself when the team has a sizeable lead and is playing well, wether it is to add to said lead or just sit back and defend it. I can also enjoy a close game or one that they trail slightly when the team is playing well and it looks like they have a chance to win it in the end.
Well, it's not been an enjoyable season LOL.
I thought the Flames played the majority of the game better than the Canucks, from 3/4 of the way through the 1st right up until they gave up the tying goal. And frankly, I gave them a bit of a pass in the first with the penalties (and none for the Canucks). I thought they played well in the third - maybe the best with a one goal lead I’ve seen them play. They weren’t passive and had a lot of chances to extend the lead. And I loved the calmness after they got tied and went to OT. That powerplay was all business.
^^ In a roundabout way that shows how difficult it is being a Canadian team. Between the issues securing and retaining talent to the pressures of speeding up rebuilds or retools it makes me wonder if we'll ever see a Canadian team win it all again.
Southern markets don't have this same fan/media pressure to win. I don't think. Maybe an internal pressure that can hamper development or cut it off at the knees.
His comment was two sentences. Pretty easy to figure out what he’s right about. This perpetual mediocrity gives management just enough hope to keep the core together, though we know exactly where this ends: A fourth place finish in the North division, followed by a 6-game first round loss in which we are drastically outshot in each game.
I guess it's a matter of perspective.
Hockey is fun to watch. It's entertainment. Winning is fun to watch.
There are only 2-3 teams that are truly built to win a Stanley Cup at any one time, then about 10 others that could get the bounces need to go on a run, but have flaws throughout the roster.
The Flames have been a decent regular season team that has struggled in the playoffs. They have a core than I'm not a big fan of, but you can't change the core at pennies on the dollar if other teams don't value those pieces.
Is what it is.
Hopefully the core gets fortified by good additions ... Mangiapane, Dube, Valimaki, Andersson have been huge secondary adds of late, and can make something happen in the playoff this year.
But wanting them to lose so a team's management will see the team isn't very good for what ... a fire sale? Trade at any return?
Not what I want.
Just enjoy the damn win.
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Always happy to win, but is it too much to ask for a single stress free game?
It's nice they are getting the wins they need to against this team, but the concerning factor is that this team is supposed to be a top 2-3 team in the division. Right now they are barely scraping by a Canucks team, that when coming in, was in complete disarray and looked at as the indoor doormat to the ratty outdoor doormat that is the Senators.
You need to be able to win ugly for sure, but 15 games in and I can count on one hand the games where I have been legitimately impressed or have even been entertained by what the Flames are this year. The other 2/3rds is a whole lot of ugly uninspired play that would result in some pretty embarrassing losses against the league's heavyweights.
It's getting old watching this group be heralded as a great team on paper, but perpetually unable to harness any sort of consistency, identity or momentum from game to game. I'm losing confidence this season is going to be any different than most the more games the Flames play.
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Last edited by Hot_Flatus; 02-16-2021 at 11:25 AM.
Hey...all the power to you guys being so positive after all these years of mediocrity. Somewhat commendable, as I don't know how you do it. But I won't question it. I'm just defending my opinion as to why I am the type of fan I am, much like the original poster in question.
I want to see us building towards something. And that something isn't another early playoff exit.
here is how: I understand that I have no agency in this hockey team. that my displeasure of their performance, construction or anything else is entirely outside of my control. as such, I don't worry myself with those things, and try to enjoy watching millionaire freak athletes who wear laundry i identify with slap a peice of rubber around with sticks
when they do it better than the other team, i'm happy. when they do it worse than the other team, i'm sad. if they go through a depressing stretch of play and i dont feel like watching, i'll vote with my wallet and not watch.
you are getting a lot of flack because there are many threads on this board to discuss the merits of playoff success or lack thereof with this club, but my goodness man this is the PGT in an OT win against the canucks. try and find a little joy in that and post a gif of a baby celebrating or something instead of being a debbie downer
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Keep going. Dig up playoff brackets from even earlier years. Compare how far the Flames have got vs. other teams. You'll get there. Might notice a trend.
How many cups has Colorado won lately, or Vegas? They have each won a couple series more than the Flames so they are automatically a cup favourite. Where should I put down my bets on them?
Remember, fans really have no say in all of this. I want the franchise goal to be a Stanley Cup, but my expectations as a fan have no bearing on that. I can enjoy games on a game by game basis without a view to the future at all.
So if we use the EPL as an example, Flames will never be a Liverpool, Manchester United, or the other Manchester Football team. We are more like an Everton or perhaps Leicester City. If your looking for something like a convenient top tier then become a Laker fan.
It's not cup or bust for me, all I want is a team that has a legit shot at a cup. For that to be true you need to be a true blue contender, and this team is not that. Too many holes IMO.
I still hope for wins though, and LOVE when they do win.
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I care less about the cup and more about having an enjoyable fan experience, which comes down to having players I like to cheer for playing fun and exciting hockey. The season with Hartley when they beat the Canucks in round one was a top 2 season for me in the last 25 years at least.
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If you look at my first post in this thread, it was calling out the people that jumped down Mattman's post.
