[PGT] Flames squander another crucial one. 5-3 VGK

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by soulchoice

There are no greater or lesser fans. End of the day, people are all just fans. The ideology of a good vs bandwagon vs a bad fan doesn’t matter. Cheer for whoever the hell you like. Makes no difference to me, nor do I care about anyone elses reason as to why they chose a team.

As far as the local aspect, it’s not always that way. I have been a Flames fan since I was a kid but if they were to moved to another city, I’d continue to be a Flames follower regardless. Even if a new NHL franchise came to Calgary I wouldn’t cheer for them.

I may be in the minority but I don’t follow any other local team in the city. I have other teams I cheer for in other sports (CFL, WHL, CIS) which are not Calgary based(Hitmen, Stamps, Dinos etc).

How long do you think that would last? There are a few Titans fans in Houston but most are Texans fans. Are there many Dallas Stars fans in Minnesota?

For me, at least, it's the Calgary part buy maybe that's because I've moved around a bit. I was always a bit of a Nordiques fan but hate the Avs. Maybe because I moved there when they won that first Cup and I probably resented how easy their fans had it.

But as for judging fans, boy do I hate that. Just like those who look down on fans who get emotional or negative about their team when they lose.

Your team can do no wrong? Your team can do no right? I kind of understand all of it.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

If you don't think signing Gaudreau to a big money long term contract makes sense, I understand. I hope we don't make a bigger mistake with Taylor Hall.

Totally agree.

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

You're worried about Gaudreau leaving for nothing? Me too. But I see a bigger risk with Tkachuk and the club has a much more rapidly declining asset in Giordano.

I'm worried about Gaudreau leaving for nothing or being traded for poor return because they wait too long.

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

You like the haul Gaudreau would bring? OK, let's hear it. What will the team look like post Gaudreau with the players acquired?

I don't know what he would bring, so that's an unfair question. I would be targeting a deal that expands the contending window.

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

When I see countless posts calling for Gaudreau's trade, often citing his diet, and starting from when he was signed, I'm left thinking the poster is rather focused on the player being a source of the team's issues. You may well be right, but I don't think as someone who observes your take on Gaudreau this way I'm not trying to "misrepresent" your views or "bring the discussion down". That's a little harsh IMO.

This post:
"I feel like you're kind of ignoring the coaching and organizational issues and trying to scapegoat things on one player, Iginla and now Gaudreau."

Ignores what I've been trying to say and conflates different issues.
Do I think Johnny is part of the current team issues? Yes.
Is that the main reason I think they should trade him? No. It is to maximize the asset.
Do I think there are other issues, both in terms of players and coaching? Yes.

Again, the main reason I think they should trade Johnny is because it is the best outcome of the 3 scenarios I've put forth. I do not blame him for all the current team woes, but I'm also not convinced he's part of the solution.

[soulchoice]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

How long do you think that would last? There are a few Titans fans in Houston but most are Texans fans. Are there many Dallas Stars fans in Minnesota?

For me, at least, it's the Calgary part buy maybe that's because I've moved around a bit. I was always a bit of a Nordiques fan but hate the Avs. Maybe because I moved there when they won that first Cup and I probably resented how easy their fans had it.

But as for judging fans, boy do I hate that. Just like those who look down on fans who get emotional or negative about their team when they lose.

Your team can do no wrong? Your team can do no right? I kind of understand all of it.

I cant say for sure how long it would last, as everyone is different. For me, it would definitely last, though keep in mind, as I have said before I am not one for civic pride. Hence, dont cheer for a team/individual in sports just cause they are local. The local Calgary kid/club means very little to me.

Anyways, I am sure that any person who lives in Calgary and happens to cheer for the Knights or any other team, probably doesnt care what anyone thinks, nor should they. Just as those who are passionate about the Flames shouldnt be concerned about what people think about their extremism either. Any thoughts about what makes a good or bad fan are opinions, which everyone will have, definitely not facts for such a subjective topic.

[Flame On]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

I've been focused on him because I think the decision needs to be made this summer, to maximize value and before he becomes harder to trade.
But I would take a look at the entire roster. Perhaps Monny needs to go too.

I almost think Monny before Gudreau. Monny is the second coming of Daymond Langkow and there's way too many monotone players with no grit or second gear, or hating to lose, call it what you want, on this team. Monny is definitely in that camp. I feel like Johnny can work with others more easily than Monny.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Flame On

I almost think Monny before Gudreau. Monny is the second coming of Daymond Langkow and there's way too many monotone players with no grit or second gear, or hating to lose, call it what you want, on this team. Monny is definitely in that camp. I feel like Johnny can work with others more easily than Monny.

Earlier in the year I felt like he was trying to evolve his game, but over the last 10 games or so his performance has been particularly poor.

So I don't disagree. I would explore what you can get for both.
But that just means you have to get at least one top line centre back somehow - that could be hard.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Earlier in the year I felt like he was trying to evolve his game, but over the last 10 games or so his performance has been particularly poor.

So I don't disagree. I would explore what you can get for both.
But that just means you have to get at least one top line centre back somehow - that could be hard.

His last 10 are 5 g 3 a +5

[Frank MetaMusil]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

His last 10 are 5 g 3 a +5

Once you're honed in on the problem he's gotta go or bust man.

The response will be that they didn't trade the player sooner, instead of doing better with the rest of the roster. Some will say the team needs consistency with management but it just repeats the mediocre loop.

Build a better team. It would be far easier with someone who earns the Lucic salary at a far higher scoring clip (like Gaudreau)

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

His last 10 are 5 g 3 a +5

Yep guy is doing what he is paid to do the last few games. Probably helps that #13 is playing well.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Totally agree.



I'm worried about Gaudreau leaving for nothing or being traded for poor return because they wait too long.



I don't know what he would bring, so that's an unfair question. I would be targeting a deal that expands the contending window.



This post:
"I feel like you're kind of ignoring the coaching and organizational issues and trying to scapegoat things on one player, Iginla and now Gaudreau."

Ignores what I've been trying to say and conflates different issues.
Do I think Johnny is part of the current team issues? Yes.
Is that the main reason I think they should trade him? No. It is to maximize the asset.
Do I think there are other issues, both in terms of players and coaching? Yes.

Again, the main reason I think they should trade Johnny is because it is the best outcome of the 3 scenarios I've put forth. I do not blame him for all the current team woes, but I'm also not convinced he's part of the solution.

Fair enough Jiri. Now if we are going to propose trading those players who aren’t everything we wish they would be, I’m up for trading a whole bunch of people even Tkachuk. Because while I like Tkachuk, I’m worried he’s neither skilled enough, nor consistent enough, to warrant the contract he is going to try and extract from this team if he is interested in staying. But at least his game should translate to the playoffs.

I just think if you have 500 posts about trading Gaudreau and none about anyone else and a few that are ok with looking for a new coach but for the most part preaching continuity within the organization, it’s hard not to think you’re pretty zeroed in on one guy and one solution. And with your focus on maximizing assets and using the Iginla example, I’m surprised you’re not more focused on Giordano.

I’ve said it too much already but it’s not about who the Flames trade away, it’s about what they bring in. And it’s pretty disappointing that the last two years the GM has allowed the club to stagnate when it needed to be pushing forward.

[taxbuster]

Originally Posted by taxbuster

Flames are their own worst enemies:
- Come out totally flat for a big game? Check.
- Allow a reasonably early goal and get behind? Check.
- Do the above again? Check.
- Coach fails to settle down the team? Check.
- From behind, play like hell to catch up? Check.
- Tie the game in the late going? Check.
- Instantly lose focus and give up a goal? Check.
- Coach forgets there's such a thing as a time out? Check.
- Come out with nothing? Check.

Seems like this story has been written more than once this season, but they're still gonna "learn from it and move on"....reeally?

Originally Posted by djsFlames

This exact scenario has happened once or twice.

In Nashville they had the lead, and actually had it a few times over the game. They lost in overtime and collected a point.

Usually when they come back all the way they win.

But let's use our goldfish memory and pretend like last nights game is a regular occurence.

Slow starts have been, but not that whole sequence of events.

The parade of not well thought out posts just continues to roll in.

When Flames have been scored on first, their record is 16-20-4. Hardly stellar.
When trailing after 1, they're 8-15-4.
When trailing after 2, they're 8-26-2.

That's more than a couple of games...perhaps not with the exact scenario, but close enough to show a bad trend. Giving up the first goal, or two, sticks them in a hole they are hard-pressed to come out of. Records are very similar in that scenario, home and away.

If they're not ready to play at puck drop, they're likely going to lose.

I can't find stats (maybe someone else can) on tying and then losing, but my memory tells me there's more than "a couple" of games where that happened. Maybe I'm wrong though.

But the failure of the coach to calm the team down (or even try to) when rattled is pretty obvious to me.

[dino7c]

No games until Thursday...this thread is gonna be painful

[calgaryred]

If the Flames had won this thread would have died by now. People talk more when they lose.

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[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by taxbuster

When Flames have been scored on first, their record is 16-20-4. Hardly stellar.

When trailing after 1, they're 8-15-4.

When trailing after 2, they're 8-26-2.

The Flames are the second best team in the League when trailing. I would say that is the very definition of "stellar."


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[1qqaaz]

I didn't realize that this was the 5th game in a row in which the Flames scored 3 goals.

Their consistent in that sense I guess.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by 1qqaaz

I didn't realize that this was the 5th game in a row in which the Flames scored 3 goals.

Their consistent in that sense I guess.

The Flames are the second-highest scoring team since the ASG. They are behind only Philadelphia with 3.7 G/GP.

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[jlh2640]

This one still stings today

[genetic_phreek]

Originally Posted by jlh2640

This one still stings today

It will still sting tomorrow.

[cam_wmh]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Earlier in the year I felt like he was trying to evolve his game, but over the last 10 games or so his performance has been particularly poor.

So I don't disagree. I would explore what you can get for both.
But that just means you have to get at least one top line centre back somehow - that could be hard.

A deal around both of them for Eichel.

[djsFlames]

Cool, go wallow in your pain and complain some more.


Can't win them all.

[jlh2640]

Originally Posted by djsFlames

Cool, go wallow in your pain and complain some more.


Can't win them all.

Sure, but you cant piss away points like that and expect to be a playoff team