[Trade] Hall (50% ret), Speers to ARI for 1st, cond 3rd, Merkley, Schnarr, Bahl

[dino7c]

But the other team gets to chose the offer they like best...Calgary made their offer (as did other teams) but the Devils liked the Yotes players/picks better


saying so and so is as good as so and so is irrelevant. It really doesn't matter what we think, Devils asset so they make the call

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

I agree in concept that it is good to have a GM that sticks to fair value. The practical results are very poor. Allowing two teams that we are contending with yearly to pick up two of the best wingers in the game while we also look for one is pretty ####ing terrible.

I don't know how anyone can look at the package arizona gave and say we couldn't have beat that. Was there risk? Sure. No risk- no reward. The reward in this case is a line driving game breaking offensive player. Now one of the teams we are competing for a playoff position with has that player. How's that for a risk?

Honestly I have no issue with us not paying Mark Stone $10M dollars for the next 7 years, or acquiring Hall for an overpayment of assets and then having to pay him $10+M

Depth is still very important in the NHL and I would much rather that Treliving spend our assets on guys like who are younger, and have reasonable cap hits than chasing UFAs with huge cap hits.

More deals like the initial Hamilton deal, and the Lindholm/Hanifin deal are what we need to make. Not ones that require you to lock in guys who are close to 30 years old at $10M or more per season for 7+ years.

The best chance to win in the NHL is to build a long term contender, not to try and blow all your assets on once big chance to win.

[Monahammer]

Originally Posted by dino7c

But the other team gets to chose the offer they like best...Calgary made their offer (as did other teams) but the Devils liked the Yotes players/picks better


saying so and so is as good as so and so is irrelevant. It really doesn't matter what we think, Devils asset so they make the call

If the Devils were worth their salt they would go back to the other clubs with the best offer they received and asked those other clubs to beat or match. I highly doubt trades work like some double blind bid process.
The fact that we wouldn't push in more chips is what I am upset about. I understand exactly why they didn't want to risk future assets on a player that will not guarantee to be here beyond 6 months, but I disagree with their risk assessment here.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

If the Devils were worth their salt they would go back to the other clubs with the best offer they received and asked those other clubs to beat or match. I highly doubt trades work like some double blind bid process.
The fact that we wouldn't push in more chips is what I am upset about. I understand exactly why they didn't want to risk future assets on a player that will not guarantee to be here beyond 6 months, but I disagree with their risk assessment here.

You can assume the Yotes did just that. Now, the Flames need to figure out if the Yotes are bluffing or not. You can't simply keep upping your offer because they tell you to. The Flames (and every other team) has to have a limit which they stick too.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by mrdonkey

When your competition is Craig Button, Darryl Sutter, and Jay Feaster, that doesn’t exactly say much. How he measures up to other GMs working today is the comparison anyone should care about.

(IMO he has only been average - good enough to keep the boat from completely tipping over, but his mistakes have been brutal and probably cost this team their window to contend)

I think the window is still very much open and keeping that window open as long as you possibly can should be the focus. It would have been great to trade for Hall, but I'd rather they not overpay and he still has the assets to go after another piece now.

Really I think there have been 3 real bad mistakes from Treliving, and the mistake was similar in all situations "Thinking the team was ready to contend earlier than they were":

1) Hamonic Deal - A 1st and 2 2nds was always an overpayment, and he overpaid for an okay player because he did have a good cap hit.

2) Neal - Bad contract on a UFA but can understand the logic of bringing in a guy that had been pretty consistent and in back to back cup finals. Contract just went sour 2-3 years earlier than anticipated

3) Brouwer - This was a bad contract on a bad player. This one didn't make sense from day 1.

However you can pick out bad moves like those from any GM.

The key thing is that even with those three moves the core of "Prime Aged" players of this team is still in decent shape:

Forwards:
Tkachuk - 22
Gaudreau - 26
Monahan - 25
Lindholm - 25
Dube - 21
Mangiapane - 23
Bennett - 23

Defense:
Hanifin - 22
Andersson - 23
Kylington - 22
Valimaki - 21

Goalie:
Rittich - 27

Then I actually think we have some good young forwards performing very well in the AHL & junior to keep suplementing to this core too: Pelletier (18), Phillips (21), Gawdin (22), Zavgordny (19), Pettersen (19). Goalie too has some potential with Parsons and Wolf in the organization still. Need to re-tool on defense though as all the pieces there have graduated.

Having those young pieces and draft picks is going to be key with the expansion draft coming up in 18 months too. You can move a draft pick for a player, but then that really only gets you 18 months of benefit, because that draft pick would have been exempt from the expansion draft, where the player you acquire likely won't be.

[CsInMyBlood]

I cannot believe so many people are upset that the Flames didn't give up a kings ransom for the rental of Taylor Freaking Hall.

Taylor Hall who is looking for a big payday this off season and has as many goals as Andrew Mangiapaine at this point. Taylor Hall who Devils fans have almost unanimously agreed seems to be floating and checked out this season. A one dimensional often injured player who is totally living off of his anomaly of a season where he won the Hart.

Hes going to be looking for a lot of money this off season. Some dumb GM is going to be regretting that monster contract much sooner than he could ever imagine.

Treliving not acquiring Hall gives me much more faith in him than I would if he did acquire him.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by CsInMyBlood

I cannot believe so many people are upset that the Flames didn't give up a kings ransom for the rental of Taylor Freaking Hall.

Taylor Hall who is looking for a big payday this off season and has as many goals as Andrew Mangiapaine at this point. Taylor Hall who Devils fans have almost unanimously agreed seems to be floating and checked out this season. A one dimensional often injured player who is totally living off of his anomaly of a season where he won the Hart.

Hes going to be looking for a lot of money this off season. Some dumb GM is going to be regretting that monster contract much sooner than he could ever imagine.

Treliving not acquiring Hall gives me much more faith in him than I would if he did acquire him.

Plus Ward seems to be revamping this team to create offence from good team defence. Look at the lines for tonight, every line i now defensively responsible. Hall doesn't fit that pattern. Neither does Gaudreau but he's already on the team.

[Azure]

I would have taken Mark Stone at $10 million anyday over Hall.

Stone brings a lot more to the game than Hall and his one dimensional game.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Azure

I would have taken Mark Stone at $10 million anyday over Hall.

Stone brings a lot more to the game than Hall and his one dimensional game.

I'm not sure $10M gets you Stone in Calgary. I suspect the number is $11M to make the tax difference. Plus it's freakin' Vegas.

[AC]

If Treliving tried to land Hall with the intention of extending him, it will be interesting how he approaches the trade deadline now. Presumably trying to sign Hall come July 1st could still be the plan, in which case any acquisitions going forward will likely have to be for players not under contract beyond this season themselves.

[Fighting Banana Slug]

I think BT has been pretty clear he isn't a fan of rentals. If Hall wasn't interested in signing an extension, then the Flames were probably out. I am more than ok with that.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

People think the window to compete is closing? That’s ridiculous.

It just opened. The entire core of the team minus Gio is extremely young with multiple stars and a couple future stars. Even if we have to deal one due to salary issues or losing them to UFA we’re still in fantastic shape. The Flames are loaded with great young talent at every position.

The Flames are very likely to be contenders for the foreseeable future. The window to compete is not closing at all, don’t understand that panicking mentality. The team has great young talent at every position and the assets to be able to supplement. Flames fans should be excited, not worried or disappointed. Strange reactions people have to our young core. Heck some people wanted it dismantled a few weeks ago.

[Manhattanboy]

I would sign Mark Stone at $10m long term every day of the week.

He would instantly vault the Flames into the cup conversation.

[soulchoice]

Originally Posted by Manhattanboy

I would sign Mark Stone at $10m long term every day of the week.

He would instantly vault the Flames into the cup conversation.

I believe his average salary is approx 9.5 in Vegas, hence I doubt 10m would have done it here. Most likely 11plus if he even wanted to sign.

[Manhattanboy]

As for Hall, have not watched him lately (other than when NJ was here) so defer to others as to whether we should have pressed harder.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Azure

I would have taken Mark Stone at $10 million anyday over Hall.

Stone brings a lot more to the game than Hall and his one dimensional game.

Would you have taken Mark Stone @ $10.0 m anyday over Matthew Tkachuk? The context of the trade last year and Taylor Hall's pending UFA situation is pretty starkly difference.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

If the Devils were worth their salt they would go back to the other clubs with the best offer they received and asked those other clubs to beat or match. I highly doubt trades work like some double blind bid process.
The fact that we wouldn't push in more chips is what I am upset about. I understand exactly why they didn't want to risk future assets on a player that will not guarantee to be here beyond 6 months, but I disagree with their risk assessment here.

How can you disagree with their risk assessment when you don't know what the Devils wanted?
It's an incomplete evaluation.

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

If the Devils were worth their salt they would go back to the other clubs with the best offer they received and asked those other clubs to beat or match. I highly doubt trades work like some double blind bid process.
The fact that we wouldn't push in more chips is what I am upset about. I understand exactly why they didn't want to risk future assets on a player that will not guarantee to be here beyond 6 months, but I disagree with their risk assessment here.

29 other teams didn't push any more chips in either... (of course only a dozen would have been actually interested).

The Flames are not a Taylor Hall away from being a legitimate contender. Period.

Last year, they were not a Mark Stone away from being a legitimate contender. End of Sentence. Full stop.

This team needs to win at least 7 playoff games in a year before you can argue that they are a single piece away from anything (unless you want to imagine magically dropping a Crosby-type in without giving up anything)

[dammage79]

Originally Posted by AC

If Treliving tried to land Hall with the intention of extending him, it will be interesting how he approaches the trade deadline now. Presumably trying to sign Hall come July 1st could still be the plan, in which case any acquisitions going forward will likely have to be for players not under contract beyond this season themselves.

I think hes trying to swap d for fw. So up next would be Kreider for Hammer. Logically.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

If the Devils were worth their salt they would go back to the other clubs with the best offer they received and asked those other clubs to beat or match. I highly doubt trades work like some double blind bid process.

Yes, we can safely assume that they would have gone back to other clubs and said 'this is the offer, can you beat it?' That is no doubt exactly how almost all trades would play out.

The fact that we wouldn't push in more chips is what I am upset about. I understand exactly why they didn't want to risk future assets on a player that will not guarantee to be here beyond 6 months, but I disagree with their risk assessment here.

There has to be a line in the sand. Do you want to close the deal regardless of the price, or do you have a price you're willing to pay and that's it?

For me, I would rather the latter. Also, you have to factor in that people see different prospects differently - Treliving may have been offering what he believed was a better off than what Arizona was offering, but NJ still wanted more, because they liked the ARI offer. At some point, you have to be able to walk away. Otherwise, you become the trade-slut that everyone just takes advantage of.

Finally, I think that for Treliving, it all came back to not wanting a rental. And I 100% agree with him on that.