Safe Injection Sites approved for edm, Cgy announcement tba

[Firebot]

Originally Posted by DiracSpike

Well that's assuming rational behaviour, I'm guessing the person who did the needle stabbing wasn't acting all that rational. As someone who lives around this area these addicts are not rational actors, I see and hear them flip out about nothing regularly, especially at night. Example: Last month my car was parked outside and when I returned at 9pm someone had smashed my driver's side window and there was a linear smash to my windshield. When the vendor I was parked in front of pulled the video for the cops he told me a homeless/junky/whatever you want to call it guy came up to my car and took a baseball bat to my windshield and window and then just kept walking. He hit five other cars that night. These people are brain-limited, whether through mental illness or chemical dependencies or both. I don't think it's the ever-plummeting housing costs in Calgary causing this problem, and the cities that have tried to be the most progressive in letting people inject and have free reign (Vancouver, San Fran, LA) have seen the problem get worse and not better.

It didn't happen to PepsiFree who smokes near the SIS for work during regular work hours, so your real life experience of living in the area is invalidated as NIMBYism.

[peter12]

Originally Posted by Table 5

One thing to consider is that what's "just fine" to you and peter12 may be completely unacceptable to many others. It's one thing to experience it from the view point of a young man with street smarts, but if you picture experiencing it from the viewpoint of a senior citizen, a mom with a stroller and two kids, or a tourist to our city, it becomes a different situation.

I think we can all do a better job sympathizing with the plight of these people, but I also don't think normalizing drug use in our streets is something we should just shrug off and accept. No matter how progressive people try to make the situation, an increase of drug use in our streets is not a good thing.

No one is saying this.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Shawn_Cronin44

I can see your side of the conversation. Everyone's experience is different. I spend nearly 100% of my time in the beltline. I live here and work here. My exposure to the side effects of the SIS is possibly more than someone who only works or socializes in the beltline.

I do wonder how you concluded the residents living around the SIS are "getting on just fine" though. What's the baseline for "getting on fine" for someone living near the SIS?

As Table 5 pointed out, subjective at best. And as I said earlier, I’m not here to tout my experience as definitive in any way. Just that it’s a complicated situation. It’s not impacting everyone a whole lot, but it is impacting some people a whole lot, no dispute there.

I guess simply that in being clear of what the effects of the SIS are on the community, we can’t just take your word or mine and call it horrible or just fine. It’s not one or the other, it’s both and everything in between. How many people are being affected in what ways is a whole other thing in itself.

[Ozy_Flame]

Originally Posted by DiracSpike

Well that's assuming rational behaviour, I'm guessing the person who did the needle stabbing wasn't acting all that rational.

Your post is shifting the conversation. Again I ask, how often does "stabbing" occur?

You are referring to - and focusing on - the improbable situation of when this actually happens. But having people "flip out" is not the same as having being stabbed. These are two very different actions.

So - how often are needle stabbings happening? Are all Schumir-vicinity residents getting stabbed with needles?

[peter12]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

Your post is shifting the conversation. Again I ask, how often does "stabbing" occur?

You are referring to the improbably situation of when this happens. Having people "flip out" is not the same as having being stabbed. These are two very different actions.

So - how often are needle stabbings happening? Are all Schumir-vicinity residents getting stabbed with needles?

It does happen. Haphazardly discarded sharps - especially in parks - do occasionally end up pricking people.

Thankfully the risk of infection is very low - and in the case of HIV almost negligible.

[Ozy_Flame]

Originally Posted by peter12

It does happen. Haphazardly discarded sharps - especially in parks - do occasionally end up pricking people.

Thankfully the risk of infection is very low - and in the case of HIV almost negligible.

Ah, so most of them are accidents by being stepped on. Not some flipped out crazy swinging a needle trying to pierce and infect.

[burn_this_city]

Do we think its acceptable to dodge discarded needles in city parks? No one should have to endure the uncertainty waiting for test results on a needle stick.

[peter12]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

Ah, so most of them are accidents by being stepped on. Not some flipped out crazy swinging a needle trying to pierce and infect.

Yeah, honestly, unless I see a news release or police report, I'm calling BS on that particular claim.

There is so much hysteria in this thread.

[peter12]

Originally Posted by burn_this_city

Do we think its acceptable to dodge discarded needles in city parks? No one should have to endure the uncertainty waiting for test results on a needle stick.

I've actually been pricked by a discarded needle, and yes, it was very scary, but fortunately, very low risk.

That said, there are policy options to encourage the return of used needles. I am personally in favour of a deposit for used sharps.

[you&me]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

As Table 5 pointed out, subjective at best. And as I said earlier, I’m not here to tout my experience as definitive in any way. Just that it’s a complicated situation. It’s not impacting everyone a whole lot, but it is impacting some people a whole lot, no dispute there.

I guess simply that in being clear of what the effects of the SIS are on the community, we can’t just take your word or mine and call it horrible or just fine. It’s not one or the other, it’s both and everything in between. How many people are being affected in what ways is a whole other thing in itself.

That doesn't really seem fair because I don't think there's any subjectivity to the effects of the SIS; the effect is objectively bad.

There may be varying degrees of negativity, but I think it would be pretty hard to argue the Beltline is better off overall with the SIS, rather than if it didn't exist at all.

[wretched34]

Just had a quick look at the Lethbridge Crime Map.
The SIS opened March 1, 2018, the crime map was able to provide information back to August 2017. So I choose the six months leading up to the opening, and then the 3 six months segments since they've been open. I looked at approximately an 8 block area, East of Stafford Drive, to 12A Street, and South of Highway 3, to 3rd Ave.

Prior to the SIS opening, in that area these are the number of reported crimes in the following Categories:

Assault: 16
Sexual Offenses: 0
Theft (Including from vehicles): 28
Weapons: 0
Disorder: 44
Drug/Alcohol: 6

A total of 94 related crimes.

in the 3 six months segments to follow, here are the numbers in the same categories:

Assault: 24 - 19 - 14
Sexual Offenses: 5 - 6 - 4
Theft (Including from vehicles): 103 - 83 - 50
Weapons: 4 - 10 - 6
Disorder: 199 - 228 - 188
Drug/Alcohol: 87 - 47 - 55

Total related charges:
1st segment: 422 - 348.94% Increase in related crimes
2nd segment: 393 - 318.09% Increase in related crimes
3rd segment: 317 - 237.23% Increase in related crimes

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by peter12

I've actually been pricked by a discarded needle, and yes, it was very scary, but fortunately, very low risk.

That said, there are policy options to encourage the return of used needles. I am personally in favour of a deposit for used sharps.

That's a good idea. Free hit for every 10 needles returned. They could use a stamp card like Subway.

[CaptainYooh]

Originally Posted by Sliver

...
My position is we need to lock them up and treat their addiction. ...

I agree with this 100%. Forceful treatment and forceful rehabilitation are the only way to combat the problem effectively. Keep in mind though; Soviet government had implemented forceful treatment system in the 70's, resulting, largely, in lawful confinement of political dissenters accused of various addictions, rightly and wrongly. So, independent system oversight would be a mandatory component of such approach. But it's not gonna happen. For whatever reason, our society feels totally fine restricting a variety of personal freedoms except drug addict's freedoms, even if these restrictions would be for their own benefit.

Originally Posted by Sliver

...
Handing out free needles and resuscitating them does nothing to help anyone. They need counselling and sobriety. Nothing else is an option.

The societal approach seems to be gravitating more and more towards tolerance, acceptance and management of the problem. This, in turn, leads to solutions compatible with tolerance and acceptance (SISs are the first step), which also leads to justify inconveniencing some for the benefit of greater good. The problem is that the "greater good" in this case is not proven to be good for everyone. Instinctively, as Sliver pointed out, we shouldn't be helping addicts getting free drugs, even though it reduces transmission of disease and improves their safety.

[Fuzz]

You can't force a drug addict to go clean. You can support them if they choose, but anyone who has known an addict should know force is not effective.

[chemgear]

Originally Posted by peter12

I am personally in favour of a deposit for used sharps.

How would this work with the injection sites handing out as many needles as possible for free to anybody that wants them? The same people that would be looking for ways to get money for more drugs?

Do you think this cobra effect would work?

[peter12]

Originally Posted by chemgear

How would this work with the injection sites handing out as many needles as possible for free to anybody that wants them? The same people that would be looking for ways to get money for more drugs?

Do you think this cobra effect would work?

We kind of do this in Vancouver where the city/province contracts out some needle collection stuff to community-based organizations.

[Handsome B. Wonderful]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

Your post is shifting the conversation. Again I ask, how often does "stabbing" occur?

You are referring to - and focusing on - the improbable situation of when this actually happens. But having people "flip out" is not the same as having being stabbed. These are two very different actions.

So - how often are needle stabbings happening? Are all Schumir-vicinity residents getting stabbed with needles?

It doesn't matter how often it happens. If it's more than zero, it's too many.

[peter12]

Originally Posted by Handsome B. Wonderful

It doesn't matter how often it happens. If it's more than zero, it's too many.

What does this even mean?

[monkeyman]

Eventually, what’s going to happen is, all of the good stable businesses and residents are going to move away from this area, and all we’re going to be left with is an concentrated area where all of the poorest, most vulnerable people and families will be located, drawn in by affordable rent, surrounded by drug dealers, crime, poverty and violence. The only businesses will be those there to take advantage of the down and out, and then we’re going to be wondering what happened and how can we fix it.

[Ozy_Flame]

Originally Posted by Handsome B. Wonderful

It doesn't matter how often it happens. If it's more than zero, it's too many.

You could say this about any crime, anywhere.