2017 Hurricane Season

[transplant99]

Tampa now under mandatory evacuation.

Its going to be 6 million or more all trying to use the same roads to get out and head North....nightmare.

[dammage79]

Ive seen a tracker that had Irmas eye tracking to the western side of FLA, that's really not good news.

[troutman]

Originally Posted by dammage79

Ive seen a tracker that had Irmas eye tracking to the western side of FLA, that's really not good news.

And as I understand it, to the east of the eye, this means 5-10 feet of water will swamp Miami

[dammage79]

Originally Posted by troutman

And as I understand it, to the east of the eye, this means 5-10 feet of water will swamp Miami

Yeah, the Eastern side of the eye is the most powerful and destructive. FLA is in for one heck of an arse kicking if that tracks to the west.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Tampa now under mandatory evacuation.

Its going to be 6 million or more all trying to use the same roads to get out and head North....nightmare.

Tampa has some decent arteries to get out of the bay area. It's going to be ugly, but not as bad as Miami.

[flylock shox]

Sitting in the Okanagan - where the summer started off with flooding, and where we're now sitting amid all sorts of forest fires with only about 2km of visibility through the smoke for the 4th day in a row - and looking at images of 3 hurricanes spiraling in the Atlantic and Gulf of Mexico, with a 4th major hurricane having already devastated bits of Texas, it's hard not to see in the immediate future the dystopia that climate change scientists have been warning about for years.

Combine this stuff with existing global political upheaval, and it feels a bit like the world is about to take a sharp turn into a pretty dark place over the next couple of generations at least.

I wonder if these storms will change the minds of some of the climate change deniers down South (and generally). It's perhaps the only positive side effect these hurricanes could have.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by flylock shox

Sitting in the Okanagan - where the summer started off with flooding, and where we're now sitting amid all sorts of forest fires with only about 2km of visibility through the smoke for the 4th day in a row - and looking at images of 3 hurricanes spiraling in the Atlantic and Gulf of Mexico, with a 4th major hurricane having already devastated bits of Texas, it's hard not to see in the immediate future the dystopia that climate change scientists have been warning about for years.

Blasphemy! Scientists are know-nothing lunatics!

Combine this stuff with existing global political upheaval, and it feels a bit like the world is about to take a sharp turn into a pretty dark place over the next couple of generations at least.

I've got my 2000 rounds of ammo per weapon. Bring on the zombie apocalypse!

I wonder if these storms will change the minds of some of the climate change deniers down South (and generally). It's perhaps the only positive side effect these hurricanes could have.

This is 'Murica! Nothing changes our minds. Now praise be Jebus and pass the ammunition!

(I agree with everything you say and hope you are right. )

[Tinordi]

The real injustice in all this is that the Conservative elites and their acolytes who are whipping up baseless climate change denialism are the first ones to cut bait and save themselves when the water rises.

They wont be faced with the disproportionate costs that they will have created by building a movement opposed to addressing climate change. They'll be comfortable. It'll be those poor suckers and rubes that the modern conservative machine feasts on with conspiracy theories and grifts to suck them dry, leave them ideologically polarized and overwhelmingly succeptible to the costs of climate change denial.

Couldn't be put better:

On Tuesday afternoon, as Southern Floridians nervously watched Hurricane Irma become a Category 5 monster, they received an odd message from popular right-wing radio host Rush Limbaugh: The hurricane forecasts are not to be trusted.

In “official meteorological circles,” he said, “they believe that Al Gore is correct” about climate change. They “desire to advance this climate change agenda,” he warned, “and hurricanes are one of the fastest and best ways to do it.” So these meteorologists, he argued, create needless fear and panic.

What’s more, local TV stations are hyping the hurricane to drum up bottled-water sales for local businesses. (Seriously.) For Limbaugh, the hurricane conspiracy goes deep.

If you can put aside how irresponsible it is to send that kind of message to a group of people in real and serious danger (uh, extremely irresponsible), it’s almost funny. This is what conservative climate denial has come to. Even with one climate-amplified hurricane barely in the rearview mirror, another barreling down, and much of the Western half of the country on fire, the only reaction someone like Limbaugh can imagine is to double down. He would rather deny an oncoming hurricane than accept climate change.

https://www.vox.com/energy-and-envir...politics-farce

[OldDutch]

Originally Posted by flylock shox

Sitting in the Okanagan - where the summer started off with flooding, and where we're now sitting amid all sorts of forest fires with only about 2km of visibility through the smoke for the 4th day in a row - and looking at images of 3 hurricanes spiraling in the Atlantic and Gulf of Mexico, with a 4th major hurricane having already devastated bits of Texas, it's hard not to see in the immediate future the dystopia that climate change scientists have been warning about for years.

Combine this stuff with existing global political upheaval, and it feels a bit like the world is about to take a sharp turn into a pretty dark place over the next couple of generations at least.

I wonder if these storms will change the minds of some of the climate change deniers down South (and generally). It's perhaps the only positive side effect these hurricanes could have.

Not saying you are wrong, but it has been 12 years since the last round of multiple US hurricanes. The last several years have been very quiet. 0 in 2013.

The forest fires do seem bad, but again I have nothing to base it on other than being in Calgary that doesn't typically get the smoke we have seen.

I think it is easy to get into a panic, but we could end up with another busy hurricane season next year than a 12 year quiet spell.

To be clear climate change is real, but to think this is going to happen every year from here on out is a bit pre-mature.

[simmer2]

Originally Posted by Tinordi

The real injustice in all this is that the Conservative elites and their acolytes who are whipping up baseless climate change denialism are the first ones to cut bait and save themselves when the water rises.

They wont be faced with the disproportionate costs that they will have created by building a movement opposed to addressing climate change. They'll be comfortable. It'll be those poor suckers and rubes that the modern conservative machine feasts on with conspiracy theories and grifts to suck them dry, leave them ideologically polarized and overwhelmingly succeptible to the costs of climate change denial.

Couldn't be put better:



https://www.vox.com/energy-and-envir...politics-farce

I've been reading your posts for a while now, and I am really struggling with how quickly you are at painting the brush and talking down to people that don't 100% share the same view as you.

Rush says it, therefore all Conservatives are awful!!
Anybody who even just questions Climate Change must be wrong and an idiot!
Climate change denialists will destroy the world!
More hurricanes, more forest fires, therefore this is climate change!

Everyone is on the extreme with this topic and it drives me nuts...especially when both parties get on their soap boxes and spout stuff like it's the gospel and talk down to everyone that doesn't agree.

You aren't any better than the Conservative elitists you apparently hate.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by simmer2

I've been reading your posts for a while now, and I am really struggling with how quickly you are at painting the brush and talking down to people that don't 100% share the same view as you.

Rush says it, therefore all Conservatives are awful!!
Anybody who even just questions Climate Change must be wrong and an idiot!
Climate change denialists will destroy the world!
More hurricanes, more forest fires, therefore this is climate change!

Everyone is on the extreme with this topic and it drives me nuts...especially when both parties get on their soap boxes and spout stuff like it's the gospel and talk down to everyone that doesn't agree.

You aren't any better than the Conservative elitists you apparently hate.

This has been his schtick for a long long time now. King of derailing.


Can we just have a thread for these storms and those that want to talk about climate change talk about it in....climate change threads? Or the POTUS thread or any of a bunch of others?

Everything has to be political for those with agendas...on both sides of the spectrum. Why?

[simmer2]

Originally Posted by transplant99

This has been his schtick for a long long time now. King of derailing.


Can we just have a thread for these storms and those that want to talk about climate change talk about it in....climate change threads? Or the POTUS thread or any of a bunch of others?

Everything has to be political for those with agendas...on both sides of the spectrum. Why?

I'll leave it alone...I came for Hurricane info but couldn't stand it any more.

Dropping it.

[Tinordi]

Originally Posted by simmer2

I've been reading your posts for a while now, and I am really struggling with how quickly you are at painting the brush and talking down to people that don't 100% share the same view as you.

I get that people don't like my opinion but nobody really wants to discuss it, you along with almost everyone else just wants to say I'm a jerk. Fine. To do this you are basically making up things that I've said or misconstruing my opinions. See me address this below:

Rush says it, therefore all Conservatives are awful!!

Did I say this? No. I said conservative elites are awful. And show me a conservative elite that is not a climate denialist or climate agnostic who's sowing confusion about climate change and I'll change my tune.

Anybody who even just questions Climate Change must be wrong and an idiot!

They are wrong. Bottom line. The science is totally settled, humans are changing the climate and that will have a significant cost to us. Are they an idiot? Well... We have a huge body of research and science saying that something is a fact. And we have a person who chooses to data mine, ignore, deny, or question those facts. Would you say that a person who doesn't believe smoking causes lung cancer is an idiot? If so, then there is no substantive difference between that person and a climate change denier/questioner.

Climate change denialists will destroy the world!

4 degrees of warming is a planetary disaster. The stakes are very very large on this issue. What will it take for people to wake up? Again there is mountains of science that has tried to assess the impacts of something like 4 degrees of warming (which is where we're currently headed unless we start making huge progress to reduce GHGs). 4 degrees is disaster. Will linking to reports on this change your mind? If so then I will.

More hurricanes, more forest fires, therefore this is climate change!

Not at all what I said numerous times in this thread. Climate change is making these occurences worse not necessarily more frequent. But again, this is only the beginning. As the teeth start to sink in, yes there will be a lot more bad things. Drought for example is one that will have huge consequences.

Everyone is on the extreme with this topic and it drives me nuts...especially when both parties get on their soap boxes and spout stuff like it's the gospel and talk down to everyone that doesn't agree.

No, everyone is not on the extreme. There's one side that's being extreme, it's people who do not think this is a critical problem. Everyone else is being reasonable and discussing what we should do about it. From the article I posted above:

Hurricanes are battering our shores, the West is on fire, that poor 2 percent of remaining scientific skeptics has been refuted, and here’s Rush Limbaugh, telling people in Miami not to believe meteorologists.

It’s time to realize that more and better science isn’t going to make a difference because the conservative movement has become detached from mainstream science just as it has become detached from mainstream journalism. If you believe an institution is corrupt, captured by your enemies on the left, you’re not going to care if its confidence goes from 97 to 98 percent, or to 100 percent.

For years, US political and media elites have treated GOP climate denialism as a kind of peculiarity, an idiosyncrasy, occasionally to be mocked or “fact-checked” but mostly, like climate change itself, to be politely ignored.

Now it seems climate denial was a canary in the coal mine, harbinger of a more thoroughgoing alienation from mainstream understanding of the world, leaving the right “unmoved by conventional understanding of facts, evidence and science,” as Ornstein and Mann so memorably put it.

You aren't any better than the Conservative elitists you apparently hate.

How again?

[surferguy]

oh FFS please take this to the climate thread

[rotten42]

Originally Posted by simmer2

I've been reading your posts for a while now, and I am really struggling with how quickly you are at painting the brush and talking down to people that don't 100% share the same view as you.

exactly...he uses a very wide brush and stereotypes.

[Izzle]

Originally Posted by surferguy

oh FFS please take this to the climate thread

Agreed. I want to read this thread for updates on the Hurricanes. I've bumped the climate thread so the discussion can be carried there.

[calumniate]

Originally Posted by simmer2

I'll leave it alone...I came for Hurricane info but couldn't stand it any more.

Dropping it.

It didn't seem to me he was lumping in all conservatives with Rush Limbaugh.. he was just stating how dangerous it was for these types to ignore these real threats and induce poor decision making.

The surface temperatures of the ocean in the Caribbean are as hot as ever right now.. but fine, exclude 'climate' from the current state of affairs and see where that gets you.

[Red Slinger]

Originally Posted by simmer2

Rush says it, therefore all Conservatives are awful!!

Have you seen the number of rabid followers he has? He even refers to them as "ditto heads" or something.

Anybody who even just questions Climate Change must be wrong and an idiot!

Questioning is good. I know you didn't address this to me but I think the problem isn't with questioning but rather what happens afterwards. Often someone is skeptical about climate change and asks a question. More often than not they are given an answer based in science, data and evidence. Too often they simply ignore the evidence and proceed with their pre-conceived notions often put forward and echoed by Conservative media like Rush. It's not just questioning.

Climate change denialists will destroy the world!

Strictly speaking, I think there is some truth to this.

You aren't any better than the Conservative elitists you apparently hate.

I think there's a substantial difference. The "Conservative elitists" are putting people in danger via their willful ignorance. Tinordi's position may seem extreme in your eyes but really I think it's more about doing the right thing. Granted, his communication style could use a little refinement but I think the message is usually solid.

edit- my thoughts are with those that may be affected by the hurricanes. Hopefully everyone including Cali, missdpuck and others will stay safe.

[rotten42]

Originally Posted by Red Slinger

Granted, his communication style could use a little refinement but I think the message is usually solid.

That's the problem though. When you have that communication style the message tends to get lost or secondary.

[Bigtime]

Walt Disney World is closing, hoping to open up again by Tuesday. 5th time the park has closed since 1971, all due to hurricanes.

h/t to CBC News Alerts for this info.