Who do you WANT to be the Flames Starting Goalie Next Season [*NEW POLL 12·05·17]

[Caged Great]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Over-rated for 13 years? Okay then.

And they don't need Care Price goaltending to be successful. They went on runs when both Johnson and Elliott played well.

Has the D been perfect? Definitely not. But lots of exaggeration in your post.

How is it an exaggeration?

The Flames have made it out of the first round once in that entire span (2005-2017) and only did so because Vancouver was on their last throws of being relevant and promptly got destroyed in the second round by a good team (Anaheim, who then promptly lost in the conference finals).

The Flames had plenty of offense over the entire span that they made the playoffs. Kipper was good when they made the playoffs. The defense has been a good portion of the problem. That's not entirely on the defensemen either, as the forwards have not been great in that department either. Some years they weren't as bad as others, like in 2005. However, this year was not a great year for the D-men. The forward group was as good as it has been in a long time. D and a goalie will put the team in a better spot to take steps towards being an elite team, rather than just an also ran.

I don't want this team to be content to just make the playoffs. That is not nearly good enough. They need to strive to become a favourite in the West and a legitimate contender for the cup. You're not going to do that with Deryk Engelland/Matt Bartkowski/Dennis Wideman/Brett Kulak playing any regular role on the team. Look at Anaheim/Nashville right now. They each have 6 good quality defenders, plus kids that can step in. The Flames need to be able to have a comparable group to those guys because the final 4 teams usually have a high quality team all around.

[Corral]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

I can't wait for July 2nd and the Flames have finally signed/traded for a new goalie so that we can finally move past these odd Elliott arguments. It's just time to move on.

Please no trading for a goalie at the draft or signing of a UFA goalie on free agent frenzy July 1 - if that happens its almost certain the Flames will have grossly overpaid for a bust.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by Alberta_Beef

You unsurprisingly missed my point. I am simply saying it is not "ALL" his fault. Other people are to blame as well. I wasn't defending his performance.

I don't think I've ever seen a goalie do a better job at completely losing a game for his team the way Elliott did in Game 3. I'd place that game, and honestly Game 2 as well entirely on Elliott. You can't give up 6 awful games in back to back playoff games. Goalies can't do it, because if they do - well, we saw what happened.

So it wasn't so much that I was missing your point, as it was that I was making the counter point that games 2 and 3 were "all" on Elliott. That's just the way it is for a goalie. It's a hell of a position, and one heck of a burden to carry - but he didn't deliver anything close to a passable performance, and if the goalie doesn't at least do that, then nothing else matters.

[Alberta_Beef]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

I don't think I've ever seen a goalie do a better job at completely losing a game for his team the way Elliott did in Game 3. I'd place that game, and honestly Game 2 as well entirely on Elliott. You can't give up 6 awful games in back to back playoff games. Goalies can't do it, because if they do - well, we saw what happened.

So it wasn't so much that I was missing your point, as it was that I was making the counter point that games 2 and 3 were "all" on Elliott. That's just the way it is for a goalie. It's a hell of a position, and one heck of a burden to carry - but he didn't deliver anything close to a passable performance, and if the goalie doesn't at least do that, then nothing else matters.

I gave clear examples of why it wasn't entirely his fault. If it was entirely his fault, I wouldn't be able to do that, now would I? So all you have proved is that you clearly don't understand what the words entirely and all actually mean.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by Caged Great

How is it an exaggeration?

The Flames have made it out of the first round once in that entire span (2005-2017) and only did so because Vancouver was on their last throws of being relevant and promptly got destroyed in the second round by a good team (Anaheim, who then promptly lost in the conference finals).
.

How did Anaheim promptly lose in the conference finals? They had a 3-2 lead and lost in 7

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Corral

Please no trading for a goalie at the draft or signing of a UFA goalie on free agent frenzy July 1 - if that happens its almost certain the Flames will have grossly overpaid for a bust.

So, stand pat, then? If not via UFA or a trade I am not sure how you expect the Flames to improve in goal this upcoming season. The draft is actually a perfect time for the Flames to address this issue.

[Redlan]

I did not to dwell on the playoffs and picked Elliot. Bring him back for less money and short term. As much as Grubauer and Raanta are getting some votes, I would rather trade for one of them (if possible), when the dust settles and go into next year with some competition. Neither has had starting responsibility and I would not like to rely on them solely.

[Itse]

The Flames ended up 8th in the league in limiting shots against, even with the bad start, 5th in 5-on-5 shot attempts against.

Last year we were 11th in shots against, year before that we were 12th.

The defense is not overrated. The goaltending troubles are underrated.

[Since1984]

Originally Posted by Corral

Please no trading for a goalie at the draft or signing of a UFA goalie on free agent frenzy July 1 - if that happens its almost certain the Flames will have grossly overpaid for a bust.

I am guessing any deal for a goaltender will occur around the expansion draft. I doubt there will be massive over payment once the protected lists are out. Hell you know one of Murray or Fluery has to be available so now its a bidding war for the teams most interested in a player in this situation. I think any over payment will be done to avoid having a rival or another team trade for a player that Vegas would be happy taking and flipping for a pick and a prospect or a player that can help them now.

With the recent news or "feeling" that Las Vegas is looking younger than Ben Bishop in their search for goalies, any team can say, if you use one of your draft selections to take player A, we will give you this package.

I think the expansion draft is going to be one hell of a fun weekend.

MAF PLZ

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by Itse

The Flames ended up 8th in the league in limiting shots against, even with the bad start, 5th in 5-on-5 shot attempts against.

Last year we were 11th in shots against, year before that we were 12th.

The defense is not overrated. The goaltending troubles are underrated.

What do the numbers look like for high-danger shots against?

[Kovaz]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

What do the numbers look like for high-danger shots against?

Corsica doesn't provide high-danger shots on a per-team basis, rather per-goalie, so this is done manually. So I just grabbed the 4 teams in the conference finals (plus Edmonton, because Talbot was #1 by a mile in High-Danger shots against) as a comparison.

High-Danger shots against per 60 minutes:
PIT: 7.98
EDM: 7.30
CGY: 6.57
OTT: 6.25
ANA: 6.16
NSH: 5.25

Also, Calgary was at 6.28 in front of Elliott, but 6.98 in front of Johnson, which to me indicates they got better as the season went on (Johnson got the bulk of his starts early, Elliott got the bulk of his starts late).

And Nashville is ridiculous.

[dissentowner]

Call me crazy but the more I hear about how Fleury is so loved by his teammates and the organization I think the Penguins will keep him and trade Murray before expansion. Especially seeing how they are sticking with him in the playoffs, even after Murray was ready to go again. If you look at Fleury's age and the age of their superstar players it makes sense, their window to win is now. Murray will grab a better return and they still have Jerry coming.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

So, stand pat, then? If not via UFA or a trade I am not sure how you expect the Flames to improve in goal this upcoming season. The draft is actually a perfect time for the Flames to address this issue.

The draft is definitely the right time but I am also leery of giving up more assets. The Elliott trade sounded good at the time, but in hindsight it is a 2nd round pick given up for one year of average goaltending. This team has precious few draft picks this year to trade away and we are still not a prospect rich organization.

It's a dilemma because obviously they need a goalie in the worst way.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Kovaz

Corsica doesn't provide high-danger shots on a per-team basis, rather per-goalie, so this is done manually. So I just grabbed the 4 teams in the conference finals (plus Edmonton, because Talbot was #1 by a mile in High-Danger shots against) as a comparison.

High-Danger shots against per 60 minutes:
PIT: 7.98
EDM: 7.30
CGY: 6.57
OTT: 6.25
ANA: 6.16
NSH: 5.25

Also, Calgary was at 6.28 in front of Elliott, but 6.98 in front of Johnson, which to me indicates they got better as the season went on (Johnson got the bulk of his starts early, Elliott got the bulk of his starts late).

And Nashville is ridiculous.

Yeah it's a hand in hand thing with goaltending and team defensive play. I think early in the season especially the Flames had a lot of defensive breakdowns and there was improvement in this area over the course of the season which coincided with better goaltending performances. Still when you break down the goaltending as a whole it wasn't good enough on average as this is an area the team still needs improvement.

[Geeoff]

For the price of Matt Murray or Marc Andre Fleury, you could probably get Grubauer AND Korpisalo.

[Since1984]

Originally Posted by Geeoff

For the price of Matt Murray or Marc Andre Fleury, you could probably get Grubauer AND Korpisalo.

And receive a unproven young goalie. At least you can get a bonafide starting goaltender that has proven he can show up big in playoff situations and have also won a cup.

I will take one of Murray or MAF over both Grubauer AND Korpisalo any day.

[Poe969]

I would prefer to pay the price for one of MAF or Murray but if they aren't options, I'd rather have Grubauer over Elliot. Hell, I'd rather have just about any of the young unproven guys over Elliot.

[bigrangy]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

Call me crazy but the more I hear about how Fleury is so loved by his teammates and the organization I think the Penguins will keep him and trade Murray before expansion. Especially seeing how they are sticking with him in the playoffs, even after Murray was ready to go again. If you look at Fleury's age and the age of their superstar players it makes sense, their window to win is now. Murray will grab a better return and they still have Jerry coming.

I thinking this as well. Though moving Fleury would give them significant cap savings. Fleury is apparently good enough to let the Pens compete so why not fill a big hole using an asset like Murray.

I'm scared that Brad will do a Murray++ for Giordano+ swap but I do think it could work for both teams depending on the pluses.

[Yoho]

Originally Posted by bigrangy

I thinking this as well. Though moving Fleury would give them significant cap savings. Fleury is apparently good enough to let the Pens compete so why not fill a big hole using an asset like Murray.

I'm scared that Brad will do a Murray++ for Giordano+ swap but I do think it could work for both teams depending on the pluses.

We'd be lucky to get that deal IMO.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by bigrangy

I thinking this as well. Though moving Fleury would give them significant cap savings. Fleury is apparently good enough to let the Pens compete so why not fill a big hole using an asset like Murray.

I'm scared that Brad will do a Murray++ for Giordano+ swap but I do think it could work for both teams depending on the pluses.

lol

Originally Posted by Yoho

We'd be lucky to get that deal IMO.

and another lol

Treliving isn't going to trade our (arguably) best player for a goalie, when he can acquire other goalies for little to no assets.