Sam Bennett as a center or winger?

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by pepper24

With Janko called up move Bennett to 3rd line wing or press box. Anyone who says he should play with Mony and Johnny on 1st line are out to lunch. Needs to earn any line promotion playing on the 3rd line or watching a few games in the stands first. Don't mess with the top line. Bennett's bad play is more than him playing center.

Last game Jagr played top line until he was out. The top line will be "messed with" in any event. When it hasn't been Jagr it's been Ferland, who IMO has been more invisible than Bennett, with less of an excuse.

[pepper24]

Sure, top line wing but very short leash. He's been really bad. Better on 3rd line wing or press box for now though.

[EldrickOnIce]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Last game Jagr played top line until he was out. The top line will be "messed with" in any event. When it hasn't been Jagr it's been Ferland, who IMO has been more invisible than Bennett, with less of an excuse.

Ferland has been dreadful.
I expected a bit better.
Not much, but some.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by EldrickOnIce

Ferland has been dreadful.
I expected a bit better.
Not much, but some.

I like Ferland. But he sure seems to be a guy that can get away from his A game quickly. While I think his skill set could benefit the top line, I'm not sure being on the top line is good for his mindset - he seems to slide into wanting to pass and make the hard play rather than bang and shoot hard wristers, which is what he's good at.

[Flash Walken]

I think it's kind of insulting to suggest Ferland has adopted a different mindset on how to play based on which line he is on. It's like saying the issues with him being productive are purely attitude related, that his ego is so big he can't bring himself to play properly if the incentive is to score goals instead of win games.

I don't get that impression from him at all. I don't see Rene Bourque levels of floating from him, where he's clearly one of the lazier players on the ice for either team more often than not.

I see it as a guy with a limited skillset who is still an NHL level player and thus has NHL level skills and can convert on NHL level setups from other NHL players. It just happens that his NHL level skillset is towards the lower end of the spectrum. I think most of the time he's playing within himself and if he doesn't score 10 goals in a season but otherwise doesn't hurt the team by taking a regular shift, that's not a bad thing or a knock against him.

Expectations for him are/were in my opinion, ludicrously high. He's a 3rd of 4th liner who can get hot occasionally and who probably plays his best hockey when the tempo and emotion are at their peak. Over an 82 game schedule, that's not going to happen much, but there are spots in the league for guys like that.

If he wants to stick with the Flames or have a long career in the league he's going to have to start excelling at being a niche player in a role other than scoring. The natural fit for his size and skill in my opinion is as a heavy minute role player and penalty killer.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

I think it's kind of insulting to suggest Ferland has adopted a different mindset on how to play based on which line he is on. It's like saying the issues with him being productive are purely attitude related, that his ego is so big he can't bring himself to play properly if the incentive is to score goals instead of win games.

I don't get that impression from him at all. I don't see Rene Bourque levels of floating from him, where he's clearly one of the lazier players on the ice for either team more often than not.

I see it as a guy with a limited skillset who is still an NHL level player and thus has NHL level skills and can convert on NHL level setups from other NHL players. It just happens that his NHL level skillset is towards the lower end of the spectrum. I think most of the time he's playing within himself and if he doesn't score 10 goals in a season but otherwise doesn't hurt the team by taking a regular shift, that's not a bad thing or a knock against him.

Expectations for him are/were in my opinion, ludicrously high. He's a 3rd of 4th liner who can get hot occasionally and who probably plays his best hockey when the tempo and emotion are at their peak. Over an 82 game schedule, that's not going to happen much, but there are spots in the league for guys like that.

If he wants to stick with the Flames or have a long career in the league he's going to have to start excelling at being a niche player in a role other than scoring. The natural fit for his size and skill in my opinion is as a heavy minute role player and penalty killer.

I.dont have anything to add, I just think this needs to be read twice.

[ForeverFlameFan]

Originally Posted by Beninho

Jake Virtanen having a better season so far. SMH

Then go and cheer for Vancouver.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

I see it as a guy with a limited skillset who is still an NHL level player and thus has NHL level skills and can convert on NHL level setups from other NHL players. It just happens that his NHL level skillset is towards the lower end of the spectrum. I think most of the time he's playing within himself and if he doesn't score 10 goals in a season but otherwise doesn't hurt the team by taking a regular shift, that's not a bad thing or a knock against him.

Expectations for him are/were in my opinion, ludicrously high. He's a 3rd of 4th liner who can get hot occasionally and who probably plays his best hockey when the tempo and emotion are at their peak. Over an 82 game schedule, that's not going to happen much, but there are spots in the league for guys like that.

If Ferland can be faulted for anything, it's maybe his conditioning. I saw an analysis of him as a player, can't recall where, that cited conditioning as a weakness. And he does seem to be gassed a lot when he goes to the bench. Problem is that as a role-player, you gotta play with energy every shift.

[delayedreflex]

Originally Posted by Jeff Lebowski

Just watching highlights may not be the best way to gauge a player's ability but the question of is Bennett a winger or centre is urgent.

To me, based on AC's videos, Bennett is an extremely dynamic, highly skilled player who has fancy skill and hard skill. Added to that he is a ferocious hitter who does everything hard. Skates hard, hits hard, forechecks hard. What he brings to the table is unique and impressive.

Wherever he lines up, this organization needs to help him actualize his vast potential. He has the potential to be the best player on this team with everything he brings to the table.

I'm extremely confident the organization wants to do this but I guess it is still an open question to them whether he maximizes on the wing or at centre. My thing is, if it's at centre it needs to be with good players. To me Versteeg and Ferland are not going to get him there. I like those guys but Bennett needs more. He's not a third line talent and that's what he's been so far given to play with. I understand the difficulties in a salary cap to get better players but I'm speaking more about Bennett's development - making him the best player he can be.

Maybe it is on the wing, where he won't have to read the entire ice and can just be a dominant winger - his skills are undeniable and aggression could be let loose with a heavy forecheck.

He needs to be in a postion to succeed.

Agree that Bennett has shown some great skill visually, but he just hasn't been able to convert that raw ability into results. In some ways he is the opposite of Monahan. Monahan looks very average when you watch him but somehow manages to be very quietly effective. Certainly playing with Gaudreau helps, but he held his own centring Glencross and Jones, and has improved each year.





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[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

I think it's kind of insulting to suggest Ferland has adopted a different mindset on how to play based on which line he is on. It's like saying the issues with him being productive are purely attitude related, that his ego is so big he can't bring himself to play properly if the incentive is to score goals instead of win games.

That's not what I'm saying at all. I'm just saying when he plays with Johnny and Monahan, who are pretty slick, he falls into a habit of trying to do fancier plays like they do. He forces low percentage passes and gets away from his hard hitting game. It's not attitude at all. I am not suggesting this is intentional or that he's not trying hard. I'm just saying it's a habit he sometimes gets into. Any player can get away from their A game like that.

[CaptainYooh]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

...
I see it as a guy with a limited skillset who is still an NHL level player and thus has NHL level skills and can convert on NHL level setups from other NHL players. It just happens that his NHL level skillset is towards the lower end of the spectrum. ...

Not sure how can anyone argue with the above. Did anyone reasonably expect anything else from Ferland? The problem is that it could also be true of Bennett, which would be tough pill to swallow considering his draft ranking. And most of us reasonably expected Bennett to play at a much higher level than what he is right now.

[JFK]

Originally Posted by CaptainYooh

Not sure how can anyone argue with the above. Did anyone reasonably expect anything else from Ferland? .

It's been a month since someone referred to Ferland as a "unicorn" because he's so special. Views of him have always been a little wonky.

The problem is that it could also be true of Bennett, which would be tough pill to swallow considering his draft ranking. And most of us reasonably expected Bennett to play at a much higher level than what he is right now

Really don't think Bennett can be compared to Ferland at all. Bennett is a talented player, and has plenty of skills, just needs to move to wing, take the pressure of center off, and find his game again.

[Flamefan1]

Can't believe the negativity towards Ferly. How soon we forget. He almost single handily won the Flames 1st playoff round in a decade 3 years ago. Ferly may not have gotten off to a great start, but you can say the same thing about 10 other Flames. Give Ferly, Bennett,Kulak and Lazar a chance and I think they will do us proud. At least. All of these guys are young enough that with experience they will improve over the course of the season. We cannot say the same thing about Stajan, Glass and Versteeg. Brouwer actually likely can improve as his first year has not met expectations. I believe Brouwer may also pleasantly surprise us as the season progresses as long as he is kept on 4th line and PK.

[Hackey]

I'd like to see Bennett given a real shot on the top line. If those guys can't help build his confidence and get his game going no one will.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Hackey

I'd like to see Bennett given a real shot on the top line. If those guys can't help build his confidence and get his game going no one will.

To be fair, that hasn’t really worked for Brouwer, Versteeg, or consistently for Ferland.

Bennett needs to develop chemistry with a center or another winger, he needs to find a pairing of his own. Clicking with someone like Jankowski or Tkachuk stands a better chance of getting him going than joining the Monahan/Gaudreau pairing.

I don’t think he’d be bad on the top line, but I don’t see it as his surest path to success.

[nightfx]

Im not sure the best way to build confidence is going against other teams' top lines, putting him with Janko and Lazar is fine.

[Jeff Lebowski]

Originally Posted by Flamefan1

Can't believe the negativity towards Ferly. How soon we forget. He almost single handily won the Flames 1st playoff round in a decade 3 years ago. Ferly may not have gotten off to a great start, but you can say the same thing about 10 other Flames. Give Ferly, Bennett,Kulak and Lazar a chance and I think they will do us proud. At least. All of these guys are young enough that with experience they will improve over the course of the season. We cannot say the same thing about Stajan, Glass and Versteeg. Brouwer actually likely can improve as his first year has not met expectations. I believe Brouwer may also pleasantly surprise us as the season progresses as long as he is kept on 4th line and PK.

I really like Ferland and I think he has good skills. I watched at a development camp and was amazed at his shot (one hit the glass and it sounded like a rifle crack) as well as his nimble feet. I knew he was more than fourth line toughness but he has that too. In the AHL he was making great plays and passes before getting hurt.

I'm loathe to put ceilings on guys because maybe they need that blank slate to just let their ability shine. However Ferland on the top line has been hit and miss. I don't know if it's going against the opponents shut down defenders or if he just isn't asserting his game - deferring to others. I think he needs to be the guy who gets in hard and gets pucks back from the opponent, uses his shot but also trusts his own hockey IQ and makes his plays rather than just giving the puck to Gaudreau and trying to get open in the slot. Create himself. What do I know?

What I do know is last playoffs the team missed that game changing hitting that he showed against VAN. I thought with him on the first line he couldn't play that style against the Ducks but he also had a good run on Monahan's line and there wasn't anyone else to play there.

i think he will be an impactful player for this team and when he is on the top line I hope he figures out how to best complement the others and really assert himself.

[Strange Brew]

I didn’t want to quote Flash Walken’s post again but I agree with basically everything. I would say though that Ferland’s shot is a little better than “role player” quality but it seems like he rarely gets into good scoring position with the puck.

[activeStick]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

What's annoying for a lot of people is that every second post by you is about Bennett. We get it you think he's a bust. You are turning into the new Moon. You get it in your head that you hate a player and you just never stop beating the dead horse. What more can you say about him that you haven't already said? Surely you understand this teams issues extend past one player right? It's just making this place hard to visit when it's the same small handful of posters repeating the same stuff every day about their whipping boys.

Yeah it's annoying. Bennett, Monahan, Hamilton come to mind for the current team. Same thing happens for Iginla by the usual bunch. If Jarome Iginla can be a target for this, not surprised the other players can as well.

[robaur]

There are 21 players who have currently played 50 or more games in the NHL from the 2014 NHL draft.

Out of those 21 players, Sam Bennett is ranked 14 out of 21 in points per game.

Only players worse than Bennett are:

- Brendan Perlini (#12)
- Ondrej Kase (#205)
- Kevin Fiala (#11)
- Nick Ritchie (#10)
- Jared McCann (#24)
- Jake Virtanen (#6)
- Nikita Tryamkin (#66)

All of those, except McCann and Ritchie, have played less than a full season in the NHL.

- McCann has already been traded from Vancouver to Florida.
- Ritchie has struggled with injuries but is getting developed by playing on the 1st line with Ryan Getzlaf mostly when he does play.

Of the players that have played atleast 150 games in the NHL, Sam Bennett's points/game is the worst.

This is the list of those players (ranked highest to lowest in pts/game):

- David Pastrnak
- Leon Draisaitl
- Nikolaj Ehlers
- Viktor Arvidsson
- Sam Reinhart
- Dylan Larkin
- Aaron Ekblad
- Sam Bennett

All of those players, except Bennett, are playing Top 6 roles with their team with significant PP time. Only Sam Reinhart just started playing 3C as he was moved off Eichel's line but he is still getting top PP time.

This should show that there is clearly a major issue with Bennett's development/trajectory especially after where he was ranked/drafted.

I think the organization has soundly mismanaged his development, but the blame also has to be shared by the player as well.

At this point, Bennett is headed more and more down the path of Yakupov, who was traded by the Oilers after he had played 252 games in the NHL. A player who had Hockey IQ issues and hasn't furthered his career much at all since he left the Oilers.

At the end of this season, Bennett will have played 244 games in the NHL. This has become a very serious issue, and should definitely be troubling to the fan base.

The comparisons with Backlund are way off-base as the draft selection/ranking was completely different as was the career projection.

As of right now, Sam Bennett's career projections as a 1st line center who contributes 65+ points per season are on life support. Everyone needs to realize that.