Why no Ferland siging

[Gaskal]

Originally Posted by AcGold

Makes sense now why he hasn't signed. Treliving wants to guarantee Monahan, Johnny and Bennett are here long term. Ferland wants to get to arbitration after a strong year and this conflict of interest is the hold up.

If only we could be rid of Bollig and Raymond, Ferland would be signed already.

Amazing how Raymond's contract became such a boat anchor after 1 season. A miracle like that would have to happen in order for a 1 year to be even feasible for Ferland.

And that goes for either side; if Ferland theoretically got a 1 year and played well enough to earn a decent raise ( while having arbitration rights), what good does it do wielding that leverage on the Flames when they may not even have cap space to pay him? He'd have to take a snub just to continue playing on the Flames, or play somewhere else entirely. It just doesn't seem like the kind of situation that he'd want to hold off on signing for just so he can get paid sooner, when he can simply wait 1 additional year for his big raise.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

So basically The Flames are suddenly getting greedy with the cheap years.

I say "suddenly" as they gave away a cheap year to both Arnold and Gaudreau by getting them to play 1 game and burn their ELC year. Same goes for Agostino. They did the same with Bennett in the playoffs.

Both Ferland and the Flames expect that after what he showed in the playoffs there is a reasonable chance that Ferland is going to move into the Flames core group and the Flames are wanting a cheap year.

So if the show us contract is 750K and the next contract will be 4.5- 5m over 2 years... then it seem fair to go 750 +2.25 = 3M for 2 years.


Backlund's show me contract was 725K in 2012-13.

Dude you're now 0/3 in the last 24 hours for comparables.

Arnold and Gaudreau's agents had that demand to get signed. Arnold would have gone on to be a UFA, Gaudreau the year after. Arnold getting done also helped entice Gaudreau.

Bennett was playing top six minutes in a playoff series!

Brutal comparisons. The Flames have to get "cheap" now because they suddenly have a stable of star players to look after, two years ago they had Giordano and a bunch of maybes.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

So basically The Flames are suddenly getting greedy with the cheap years.

I say "suddenly" as they gave away a cheap year to both Arnold and Gaudreau by getting them to play 1 game and burn their ELC year. Same goes for Agostino. They did the same with Bennett in the playoffs.

Both Ferland and the Flames expect that after what he showed in the playoffs there is a reasonable chance that Ferland is going to move into the Flames core group and the Flames are wanting a cheap year.

So if the show us contract is 750K and the next contract will be 4.5- 5m over 2 years... then it seem fair to go 750 +2.25 = 3M for 2 years.


Backlund's show me contract was 725K in 2012-13.

Ummm....no.

Ferland wont get anything North of 1.2 IMO....no matter the length of the deal.

[dustygoon]

It has been confirmed by someone else (Boomer?) I think that its duration of contract and arb rights that is the key holdup (as it ties to money).

Have to think a three year deal isn't such a bad thing if you are Ferland. That is a pretty solid gesture from the team to a guy that hasn't played many games. Unless the money is terribly low, it seems the agent Jason Davidson is being a dummy (Dorset's agent too).

[AcGold]

It's Ferland that wants 1 year, Calgary wants 2-3 cheap ones while Ferland thinks he will have a huge year so he wants to get paid big in 2016-2017. Or his agent thinks so, one of the two.

It has nothing to do with gestures imo and entirely to do with Calgary wanting to keep his cap hit low for the next 3 years while Monahan and Gaudreau need contracts

[Alberta_Beef]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Dude you're now 0/3 in the last 24 hours for comparables.

Arnold and Gaudreau's agents had that demand to get signed. Arnold would have gone on to be a UFA, Gaudreau the year after. Arnold getting done also helped entice Gaudreau.

Bennett was playing top six minutes in a playoff series!

Brutal comparisons. The Flames have to get "cheap" now because they suddenly have a stable of star players to look after, two years ago they had Giordano and a bunch of maybes.

I think the best comparable for a show me contract is Lance Bouma's second contract which was 1 year @ 577,500. At the time of the signing Bouma had 43 career games and had some injury troubles. Ferland currently has 35 career games (regular season and playoffs). In addition to being at similar points in their careers, they also fill similar roles.

[FBI]

Arg every day I refresh this thread hoping it's done. What's our over/under here? 5 days?

[Finger Cookin]

Camp should be open for fitness testing in 8 days, so hopefully there is a deal in the next 7 days.

[Da_Chief]

Originally Posted by Finger Cookin

Camp should be open for fitness testing in 8 days, so hopefully there is a deal in the next 7 days.

And if it doesn't then somebody gonna get a hurt, and Ferland knows him really well; Kevin Bieksa!

[StrykerSteve]

Originally Posted by AcGold

It's Ferland that wants 1 year, Calgary wants 2-3 cheap ones while Ferland thinks he will have a huge year so he wants to get paid big in 2016-2017. Or his agent thinks so, one of the two.

It has nothing to do with gestures imo and entirely to do with Calgary wanting to keep his cap hit low for the next 3 years while Monahan and Gaudreau need contracts

You should be careful speaking in such absolutes. Unless you're involved in the negotiations, all of this is pure speculation.

[Gaskal]

Originally Posted by StrykerSteve

You should be careful speaking in such absolutes. Unless you're involved in the negotiations, all of this is pure speculation.

When the conditions are hazier then we wouldn't be so forward in our predictions. In this case, however, it couldn't be more obvious that the 1 year 'prove it' contract is the best possible deal for Ferland. Upwards-trending performance, plus eligible for arbitration filing at the end of the season. Any longer and he would be forfeiting arbitration rights for those years, delaying a likely pay hike.

Sure it's speculation, but if these aren't the exact same issues that Treliving and Ferland's agent are boxing over, then I'll eat my socks.

[Ryan Coke]

Originally Posted by StrykerSteve

You should be careful speaking in such absolutes. Unless you're involved in the negotiations, all of this is pure speculation.

Just about everything in is thread is based on speculation though. Certainly any views as to who is right or wrong is nothing more than speculation based opinion.

Which is why I am so reluctant to to be critical of Ferland or his agent without knowing any details. If it is true that he wants a one year deal, I can't blame him for being confident he will be worth more next year. That's what we all want...is for players to play so well they command more money.

But of course that is still based on nothing more than speculation.

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by Alberta_Beef

I think the best comparable for a show me contract is Lance Bouma's second contract which was 1 year @ 577,500. At the time of the signing Bouma had 43 career games and had some injury troubles. Ferland currently has 35 career games (regular season and playoffs). In addition to being at similar points in their careers, they also fill similar roles.

When Bouma signed his show-me contract it was a 2-way for 577 NHL and 100K Ahl.

Bouma was on a reconstructed knee and played 3 AHL games the year before.

Even before his injury Bouma had 4 NHL pts exclusively as a 4th line grinder.

Ferland had 5 points in his 9 playoff games on a top line playing banged up in 3 of them.

Link to Bouma article on end of 2013 and the year he had before signing his 577k contract.

As a prospect over that summer he was ranked #27 by CP voters. A bit different than Ferland's #4 spot as prospect... behind Bennett, Poirier and Gillies..... 67 Cp voters thought Ferland was the best prospect not named Bennett.


If you are going to compare Bouma to Ferland then maybe his 2014-15 contract is closer.... after he played a full season (78 games) on the Flames 4th line getting 15 pts he signed a one-way deal for $775 K.

[Fire of the Phoenix]

Ferland is probably 'worth' $750k on a 1 year deal. The issue here is trying to project his worth over several years as Flames management is acutely aware that Ferland's upside is much higher than Bouma's. Will he get there? Who knows, that is the risk. Trying to compare him to other players is basically a waste of time because I can't recall a single other player who did nothing in limited regular season games in his rookie year, only to turn into Hulk in a playoff series AND need a new contract immediately after. The reason this is taking so long is in large part to how unique this situation is.

[GullFoss]

I think 2 years at 0.95 aav is fair...y1 at .7 and y2 at 1.2

[thymebalm]

Ferly can't command much more that 1M, so term has to be the hold out. I think Treliving likes a lot of what he sees in Ferland and is trying to lock him down for a couple cheap years. like 3 x 1.2 or something.

Can he participate in training camp without a contract? how many times has that question been asked?

[Loudog]

Originally Posted by thymebalm

Ferly can't command much more that 1M, so term has to be the hold out. I think Treliving likes a lot of what he sees in Ferland and is trying to lock him down for a couple cheap years. like 3 x 1.2 or something.

Can he participate in training camp without a contract? how many times has that question been asked?

BT stated in an interview that "no contract, no camp."