2014 NHL Draft Combine May 26-31 aka the Pull-Up thread

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by mile

It's also interesting looking at Monahan's report last year - the reason why I like Bennett is because he excels at aspects of the game Monahan doesn't, and vice versa. They seem like a nice complement to each other up the middle.

Bennett's report card has the following:
Size/Strength: B-
Skating: A-
Shot/Scoring Ability: B+
Puck handling: A
Hockey sense: A
Competitiveness: A
Physical play: A-
Composure/poise: A-
Defence: B



Monahan Report Card
Size/Strength A
Skating B+
Shot/Scoring ability B+
Puckhandling A
Hockey Sense A+
Competitiveness A
Physical play B
Composure/Poise A
Defence B

so Monahan is 4 grades higher on size/strength
1 grade lower on skating
1 grade higher on Hockey sense
2 grades lower on physical play
and 1 grade higher on composure and poise.


Monahan, based on this report, would be picked higher than Bennett.... and Bennett might be #2 overall this year.

And Monahan, apparently made huge improvements after the combine and after he was drafted to get NHL ready.

[Commandant]

NHL Combine Heights and Weights – The true numbers on the 2014 Draft Class.
http://lastwordonsports.com/2014/06/...ights-weights/

[mile]

nm

[nik-]

Ritchie at 226 and looks skinny compared to some of his pics from this season ... I wonder what he was really at during the year.

[Ashasx]

Those look like pre-combine numbers to me.

ex. I know Ehlers is not 162 lbs, Draisaitl is bigger than 6'1.5", etc.

[Commandant]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

Those look like pre-combine numbers to me.

ex. I know Ehlers is not 162 lbs, Draisaitl is bigger than 6'1.5", etc.

They are from the media sheet given on the last day of the combine and say "as measured by NHL Central Scouting".

[Monahan23]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

Bennett's report card has the following:
Size/Strength: B-
Skating: A-
Shot/Scoring Ability: B+
Puck handling: A
Hockey sense: A
Competitiveness: A
Physical play: A-
Composure/poise: A-
Defence: B



Monahan Report Card
Size/Strength A
Skating B+
Shot/Scoring ability B+
Puckhandling A
Hockey Sense A+
Competitiveness A
Physical play B
Composure/Poise A
Defence B

so Monahan is 4 grades higher on size/strength
1 grade lower on skating
1 grade higher on Hockey sense
2 grades lower on physical play
and 1 grade higher on composure and poise.


Monahan, based on this report, would be picked higher than Bennett.... and Bennett might be #2 overall this year.

And Monahan, apparently made huge improvements after the combine and after he was drafted to get NHL ready.

2013 was a really strong class, 2014 is considered weak

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by Commandant

They are from the media sheet given on the last day of the combine and say "as measured by NHL Central Scouting".

Yes, I know, but that sheet was distributed before measurements at the combine took place.

[sureLoss]

Originally Posted by Commandant

They are from the media sheet given on the last day of the combine and say "as measured by NHL Central Scouting".

It looks like those sheets were printed before any actual measurements were done.

"as measured by NHL Central Scouting" most likely refers to earlier in the year measurements

[nik-]

Why do they make getting those measurements such a hassle compared to other tests?

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by Commandant

NHL Combine Heights and Weights – The true numbers on the 2014 Draft Class.
http://lastwordonsports.com/2014/06/...ights-weights/

Those are identical to the CSS listings that came out way before the combine

http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=712854

So those can't be the ones from the combine

[Calgary4LIfe]

Draft combine results are only a small window into a prospect's story. You have to look at the results, scout them thoroughly on the ice for at least a season, and you also have to look at the player's frame and muscle-build. You have to see who is the 'man amongst boys' and who still has a lot of room for growth.

Let's take a look at some prospects this draft, and past drafts.

Gaudreau, Grimaldi, McNeil, Ritchie and Bennett.

Gaudreau - we are all familiar with. At the draft, he was apparently 5'5" and 135lbs or something. Tiny kid with exceptional skill. When you look at his frame, he was very under-developed. Without question, he was a 'boy'. In his NCAA career, he has always been a 'boy amongst men', but he has learned to be highly effective. While there is no guarantee that he will be effective in the NHL (though I do think he will be), he does have 'room to grow' (not in height, but in his ability to gain some muscle and enhance his frame).

Grimaldi - same draft class as Gaudreau. Was only 1 inch taller. However, he already had a far superior build (170lbs I believe). Though he was under-sized, he was already a 'man amongst boys'. Part of his success was his physical ability to fight through checks and get puck possession. Compare his NCAA record against that of Gaudreau, and it pales in comparison. I think Grimaldi will be a tweener in the NHL at most, though this is just a guess on my part. Exceptional skill, but he has 'learned' to use his physical abilities and advantage (probably a very strong player relative to his age group), and this advantage will diminish in the NHL (and I will argue that it has already diminished greatly in the NCAA). Grimaldi was by far the 'superior prospect' when compared to Gaudreau, but who in this league would trade away Gaudreau straight-up for Grimaldi now? You have to keep an eye out for those 'early bloomers' who peak relatively early physically (though it isn't to say that Grimaldi doesn't have additional room for growth, just less so than some most at that age).

McNeil - he was considered to be one of the more impressive builds in the 2011 draft class. Was the proverbial 'man amongst boys'. Decent skill-set. However, how much of his success in the CHL was due in large measure of his over-developed physical frame as compared to the rest of his peers? I think his skill-set is below that of a top 6 projection, but his stats were probably above average for a top 6 projection. Again, reliance on his advantage of having more strength and muscle mass for speed and puck-battles.

Ritchie - the prospect many posters 'dread' the Flames picking this year. One of the biggest concerns I have read on these forums by posters is that they feel his success comes from the fact that he is 'bigger' than anyone else in the CHL and it won't translate well in the NHL. I counter with the fact that Ritchie's build is actually quite underdeveloped. He will get bigger and much stronger, and in his career (if he does indeed make the NHL) will be one of a power-forward that is extremely difficult to handle. He already has great agility, fairly good speed, and he has a tremendous amount of skill. He is NOT an 'over-sized' player that dominates because everyone else is a boy and he is a man. He essentially has an underdeveloped body with a very large frame, and one can expect as he trains in the next few years at a professional level, his size and strength advantage will continue to be an advantage.

Bennett - I don't know about you guys, but he almost screams Gaudreau to me. The fact that he did relatively poorly (and the 'embarrassing' overblown pull-up bit) at the combine makes me think this kid may in fact end up being the best in the draft. Why? A kid with this little frame is so tenacious that he simply out-competes other larger and stronger players regularly, and still has that high-end skill-set. I would expect that a few years of training professionally he will only become better. He has lots of room to grow, and when he does, he will be that much more effective.

It is difficult to look at the combine results and say: "This kid did poorly, so he won't translate." You have to look at the frame, and you have to look at the 'size' the kid has on that frame before you make any sort of valid projection. You can't simply look at one piece of the puzzle and definitively say one way or the other - you have to look at the entire story to be able to more accurately gauge a prospect's projection in the NHL (and even then, there are exceptions - both surprises and disappointments).

These are things that I have been noticing anyways. I actually really hoped the Flames would draft Grimaldi, but I am very glad that they didn't.

[dammage79]

As we are inching closer to draft day, I find Draisaitl encompassing most of my hopes as to who the Flames pick. Reinhart has jumped ahead a bit as well. I enjoyed both of their interview clips quite a bit.

Buy as of today, Draisaitl is my new #1 with both Sam's tied for second.

[ForeverFlameFan]

I wouldn't mind Draisaitl picked at #4, but that is only if the other top 3 on my list are chosen.

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by Calgary4LIfe

Draft combine results are only a small window into a prospect's story. You have to look at the results, scout them thoroughly on the ice for at least a season, and you also have to look at the player's frame and muscle-build. You have to see who is the 'man amongst boys' and who still has a lot of room for growth.

Let's take a look at some prospects this draft, and past drafts.

Gaudreau, Grimaldi, McNeil, Ritchie and Bennett.

Gaudreau - we are all familiar with. At the draft, he was apparently 5'5" and 135lbs or something. Tiny kid with exceptional skill. When you look at his frame, he was very under-developed. Without question, he was a 'boy'. In his NCAA career, he has always been a 'boy amongst men', but he has learned to be highly effective. While there is no guarantee that he will be effective in the NHL (though I do think he will be), he does have 'room to grow' (not in height, but in his ability to gain some muscle and enhance his frame).

Grimaldi - same draft class as Gaudreau. Was only 1 inch taller. However, he already had a far superior build (170lbs I believe). Though he was under-sized, he was already a 'man amongst boys'. Part of his success was his physical ability to fight through checks and get puck possession. Compare his NCAA record against that of Gaudreau, and it pales in comparison. I think Grimaldi will be a tweener in the NHL at most, though this is just a guess on my part. Exceptional skill, but he has 'learned' to use his physical abilities and advantage (probably a very strong player relative to his age group), and this advantage will diminish in the NHL (and I will argue that it has already diminished greatly in the NCAA). Grimaldi was by far the 'superior prospect' when compared to Gaudreau, but who in this league would trade away Gaudreau straight-up for Grimaldi now? You have to keep an eye out for those 'early bloomers' who peak relatively early physically (though it isn't to say that Grimaldi doesn't have additional room for growth, just less so than some most at that age).

McNeil - he was considered to be one of the more impressive builds in the 2011 draft class. Was the proverbial 'man amongst boys'. Decent skill-set. However, how much of his success in the CHL was due in large measure of his over-developed physical frame as compared to the rest of his peers? I think his skill-set is below that of a top 6 projection, but his stats were probably above average for a top 6 projection. Again, reliance on his advantage of having more strength and muscle mass for speed and puck-battles.

Ritchie - the prospect many posters 'dread' the Flames picking this year. One of the biggest concerns I have read on these forums by posters is that they feel his success comes from the fact that he is 'bigger' than anyone else in the CHL and it won't translate well in the NHL. I counter with the fact that Ritchie's build is actually quite underdeveloped. He will get bigger and much stronger, and in his career (if he does indeed make the NHL) will be one of a power-forward that is extremely difficult to handle. He already has great agility, fairly good speed, and he has a tremendous amount of skill. He is NOT an 'over-sized' player that dominates because everyone else is a boy and he is a man. He essentially has an underdeveloped body with a very large frame, and one can expect as he trains in the next few years at a professional level, his size and strength advantage will continue to be an advantage.

Bennett - I don't know about you guys, but he almost screams Gaudreau to me. The fact that he did relatively poorly (and the 'embarrassing' overblown pull-up bit) at the combine makes me think this kid may in fact end up being the best in the draft. Why? A kid with this little frame is so tenacious that he simply out-competes other larger and stronger players regularly, and still has that high-end skill-set. I would expect that a few years of training professionally he will only become better. He has lots of room to grow, and when he does, he will be that much more effective.

It is difficult to look at the combine results and say: "This kid did poorly, so he won't translate." You have to look at the frame, and you have to look at the 'size' the kid has on that frame before you make any sort of valid projection. You can't simply look at one piece of the puzzle and definitively say one way or the other - you have to look at the entire story to be able to more accurately gauge a prospect's projection in the NHL (and even then, there are exceptions - both surprises and disappointments).

These are things that I have been noticing anyways. I actually really hoped the Flames would draft Grimaldi, but I am very glad that they didn't.

Nice post ....

but on Bennett..... he at 6' 178 is not at all undersized as a junior. He is able to play a physical game and get away with it, just because he has critical mass. There a majority of the players in the CHL that are not strong...and smaller than Bennett...... they don't get to ever play in the NHL.

I have a worry that if Bennett does not have significant innate (genetic?) strength his game will not translate to the NHL level where he will be average or slightly below average in size.


Andrew Shaw 5'10" 180 is able to play a very physical and effective game at the NHL level.

I would venture to guess that Andrew Shaw would be able to do a few more than pull ups and bench presses.

Gaudreau has been small all his hockey career. He has adapted his game to his limitations.

He will not be successful in crashing the crease.... but he will get into the scoring area by shifty moves and puck handling and skating... The opposition will not get to make clean contact with him to establish their physical dominance. They will be backing off him so he doesn't deke his way around them.

Gaudreau adding 10-15 pounds will not make him any better in the same way as Gretzky would not have been better if he added 15 pounds of muscle.


Will Bennett be able to adapt his game when he is going up against NHL defensemen who are all going to be significantly stronger than him?

If if maintains an aggressive attitude (that is his positive differentiation
over Sam Rienhart) with his current tool set how does he avoid becoming a Burrows (hit and run/turtle)?

[Robbob]

Originally Posted by ForeverFlameFan

I wouldn't mind Draisaitl picked at #4, but that is only if the other top 3 on my list are chosen.

I agree completely. Draisaitl is a very nice consolation prize at 4. If he is what is left over I would still be happy.

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by Robbob

I agree completely. Draisaitl is a very nice consolation prize at 4. If he is what is left over I would still be happy.

I think that the 0 pull up makes Edmonton pick Draisaitl. They already had RNH who had a weak (strength-wise) combine and they pooh-pooed that only 6 bench presses had no bearing on his ability to play hockey. Having yet another undersized centre to go with RNH and Gagner might be too much for Katz to handle and Lowe might get cut loose. People can see Edmonton needs big and they can see that Draisaitl is big. Smaller weak guy that might end up playing big?? Draisaitl is the safe pick for the Oilers ..... just like Nurse was the safe pick last year.

If Bennett get drafted by the Oilers I would feel sorry for him and his one pull up. He, Perron and Hall will be the tough guys in the Oilers top 6 or maybe even 9.


The Flames will get whichever Sam the Sabres don't want.

[Rick M.]

If all these tests are meaningless why would the NHL bother doing them.

[FAN]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

Nice post ....

but on Bennett..... he at 6' 178 is not at all undersized as a junior. He is able to play a physical game and get away with it, just because he has critical mass. There a majority of the players in the CHL that are not strong...and smaller than Bennett...... they don't get to ever play in the NHL.

I have a worry that if Bennett does not have significant innate (genetic?) strength his game will not translate to the NHL level where he will be average or slightly below average in size.

That's a good point about Bennett, but he does have a decent frame to fill out, he will get stronger, and winning puck battles in hockey takes more than just upper body strength and the fact that Bennett is considered strong along the boards means he knows how to win puck battles. Balance, leg power, body positioning, stick strength, and competitiveness are bigger contributors to winning puck battles.

[Sune76]

damn nylander is ripped




he also finished very well on the tests.