2011 Canadian Election Thread

[John Doe]

Originally Posted by transplant99

there are people within the party that hold no seat or elected psoition who's job it is to do that. What's the problem?

So you don't believe in independent candidates? You seem to imply that only people who have this support system behind them should be able to hold office.

Originally Posted by transplant99

Who? Fundraisers are not on the public payroll.

How about MP's (strangely enough only Conservative MPs) traveling all over Canada to get pictures taken at sites where stimulus money (remember, the money that Flaherty didn't think was needed right after the 2008 election because the Conservatives didn't think a recession was coming?) was used. I'm sure that was all on private time and not for political purposes.

Originally Posted by transplant99

Again...who?

If you are talking about elected members appearing at fundraising dinners etc, no I have no problem whatsoever with that.

How about a $26 million ad campaign (just this year alone) of partisan advertising for the CEAP? How about using a minister's (Jason Kenney) letterhead and people in his department to send out fundraising letters?

[FurnaceFace]

Writing cheques? I wish I were in a position where I had to write a cheque, I'd be making a pile of money and wouldn't care.

There is also nothing wrong with coalition governments. Most of Europe has this structure and they have effective governments. We're just not setup well for it.

I read the Harper coalition letter to the GG more trying to force her to abolish parliament which would spawn a new election moreso than him getting in bed with the other parties to form a government. It is a pretty gray area though.

I've never been a huge Harper fan. I think he's a smart man, but I'm always left with the impression he has a hidden agenda which I'll hate. The emperor image CC posted wraps that feeling up nicely.

At the end of the day though, he's the only one of the lot who I think has the ability to lead. Ignatief has really done nothing to give me the impression he's anything more than book smart which has never impressed me. If the Liberals really feel they have a shot at winning, I think they are mistaken. If this is just to destroy Ignatief then couldn't they have done that as a party? I suppose the problem is there is no one really compelling who is ready to take the party on. In my view we haven't had a dynamic leader since Cretien. It's too bad McKenna didn't want to run the liberals or he'd have saved the country a lot of wasted money. He would have kicked Stevie's ass in the last election.

With that said....Go Green Party?

[SebC]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Informed democracy? Sorry...taking out attack ads against political opponents doesn't qualify as informing anyone about anything.

I don't like the quality of the political discourse in this country, but more discourse is still better than less.

[transplant99]

So you don't believe in independent candidates? You seem to imply that only people who have this support system behind them should be able to hold office.

Where did I say anything about independant candidates and not believing in them? You are a true Liberal aren't you...obfuscate everything when needed.

But to answer...of course indies are allowed, as long as they raise their own money.

How about MP's (strangely enough only Conservative MPs) traveling all over Canada to get pictures taken at sites where stimulus money (remember, the money that Flaherty didn't think was needed right after the 2008 election because the Conservatives didn't think a recession was coming?) was used. I'm sure that was all on private time and not for political purposes.

Politicians taking photo ops? Stunning development. I would agree with you if it was only Cons that ever do this...but it aint, so its irrelevant. Again though...no idea what this has to do with FUNDRAISING.

How about a $26 million ad campaign (just this year alone) of partisan advertising for the CEAP?

Was it taxpayers money? No...so one more time, not even talking about anything related.

How about using a minister's (Jason Kenney) letterhead and people in his department to send out fundraising letters?

Huge screw up and one that no one in office should do. I do wonder it has ever happened before though.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by SebC

I don't like the quality of the political discourse in this country, but more discourse is still better than less.

I would agree as long as that discourse is truthful. It very often isn't and in fact is completely made up at times. No, I dont think taxpayer money should fund such nonsense.

[evman150]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

anal-what? Never heard of that word.

I wouldn't go around advertising that.

[killer_carlson]

I would like a blood pressure monitor attached to me for the entire election and see how high my blood boils when Jack Layton speaks.

Oh, how I hate the NDP........

[Resolute 14]

Agreed.

Oh, and...

[transplant99]

"New Democrats will be all across the country taking on the Conservatives, and we'll show that we're the only party capable of defeating the Conservatives coast to coast to coast," Layton said.

[SebC]

Originally Posted by transplant99

I would agree as long as that discourse is truthful. It very often isn't and in fact is completely made up at times. No, I dont think taxpayer money should fund such nonsense.

If it was completely made up, I think we'd see a lot more libel suits. There's a lot of stuff that is intentionally misleading though. Unfortunately, such ads work, and if one party has them, the others need to be able to have them too.

[Reggie Dunlop]

Harper was essentially impeached today.

[OzSome]

What a joke!!!! Complete waste of taxpayer's money. Do Ignatief and Layton expect to win the election? I don't think so. As far as I am concerned, I cannot trust Ignatief. By the way, to those people calling him Iggy, go far,far, far away. There is only one IGGY that we know and that's Jarome Iginla and that moron Liberal leader. As for Layton wanted to be a Prime Minister so bad. Not in my like Jacko. I don't care who runs for PC, Harper or someone else, i will still vote for them. No way I will vote 2 traitors and one party who only cares about Quebec, Quebec and Quebec.

[flamesrock24]

This will be my first election where I will be eligable to vote.
I come from a rather Conservative family. If I stay in Ottawa for the summer, I will be living in a riding that has never elected anyone but a Liberal MP (according to Wikipedia)

On the other hand, I live in a very Conservative riding at home. However, the Conservative candidate happens to be Bev Oda, who (as the rest of the country now knows) is an idiot. My parents spoiled their ballots during the last election because they wouldn't vote for her.

Either way, it'll be fun to watch this election actually living in Ottawa and I'm looking forward to voting.

[Reggie Dunlop]

Originally Posted by OzSome

I don't care who runs for PC

They're not Progressive Conservatives anymore.

It is defunct. Reverse-engineered and taken over by the Reform/Alliance bunch.

We have a Minister of Science and Technology who believes the earth is 10,00 years old and that the Flintstones was a documentary.

You should care who runs the Conservative party.

[WilsonFourTwo]

Originally Posted by Reggie Dunlop

Harper was essentially impeached today.

That might be the largest stretching of the truth I've seen so far. I don't think you wanna hang your hat on that argument.

[WilsonFourTwo]

Originally Posted by Reggie Dunlop

They're not Progressive Conservatives anymore.

It is defunct. Reverse-engineered and taken over by the Reform/Alliance bunch.

Hear hear!

The gutting of the Progressive Conservative party left many (millions?) of voters without a pot to piss in. We've been voting for the 'Lesser of the evils' for almost a decade.

I'll also go so far as to say that a Progressive Conservative party would have formed a majority government a long time ago. They had their demons, but they weren't branded (rightfully or not) as zealots and ideologues.

[Dan02]

Originally Posted by Slava

^so CC will Harper form a coalition this time if he doesn't have enough seats?

I don't think he'll need to, atleast for the first year. He'll be able to ram whatever legislation down their throats and they'll be forced to abstain as not to trigger another election. Within reason of course.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Except...they are.

They don't vote the way they did today, there is no election. That much is clear.

I understand that the budget may not have given everything to everyone that they wanted, I have yet to EVER see a budget that pleases everyone in parliament as a matter of fact, but they still had a choice. This one baffles me to no end though and now the 4th election in 7 years is thrust upon Canadians...by the opposition.

Truth is this will be a fascinating watch to me. If the Cons stay on point and keep pounding the same message repeatedly, don't fall over themselves with some idiot making some stupid remark...they should cruise to an easy win. That is so much easier said than done with them though.

I see what you are saying, and in all honesty, the failure of this government falls on everyone involved. The governing party failed to find concensus and the opposition parties failed to find ground to negotiate on. Whether that was Harper purposely excluding them or if it was them holding their noses in the air at him, I really don't know.

The beef I have with Harper is that he seems to avoid admitting that this is a minority government and that he needs include other parties in the process if he wants to get stuff passed. That is the way minority governments are supposed to work. Instead, he tables stuff that he knows the other parties won't go for and uses bullying tactics to try and force their hands. For example, Harper knows the other parties do not have the resources that his does, so he ran attack ads for the past couple of months to boost the Conservative popularity up until it was time to vote on the budget. He seemed to think that the other parties would be forced to approve his budget in fear of an election. That is anti-democratic in my opinion.

[Savvy27]

I have a serious question for those who are dead-set against the idea of a coalition government. Is the difference between an Liberal-NDP coalition and the Reform-PC coalition that they combined before the election?

Otherwise, I don't see what the practical difference between the two governments would be. They are mirror images of each other. A left and centre-left coalition vs. a right and centre-right coalition. It seems like the people on the right simply do not like the people on the left combining their votes to win power.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by Savvy27

I have a serious question for those who are dead-set against the idea of a coalition government. Is the difference between an Liberal-NDP coalition and the Reform-PC coalition that they combined before the election?

Otherwise, I don't see what the practical difference between the two governments would be. They are mirror images of each other. A left and centre-left coalition vs. a right and centre-right coalition. It seems like the people on the right simply do not like the people on the left combining their votes to win power.

When the BQ is involved....absolutely correct.

Otherwise I would have zero opposition to anyone forming a gov't, particularly if both parties forming the coalition were represented with cabinet posts and other important positions.

But the BQ should never ever have the single smallest possibility of forming laws or deciding on transfer payments etc etc.