The Legend of Sam Bennett

[AustinL_NHL]

It's pretty impressive that despite playing on an incredibly high-powered offensive team that Bennett leads all Panthers in goals/60 by a fair margin at 1.70 (Duclair is second at 1.51), as well as leads all Panthers in ixGF/60, iSCF/60 & iHDCF/60.

He's also 1st among top 6 forwards (3rd among Panthers forwards in general) in xGF% Rel and 1st among all Panthers players (20+ GP) in xGF%.

He's been fantastic.

Just like with Gio, I was happy to see him play a great game and score while the Flames got the win

[Rutuu]

Is Sam Bennett = Brendan Gallagher?

This season is looking a lot like Gallagher's best years.

On pace for 295 shots, 30+ goals and 50-something points.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

One other thing that hasn’t been talked about much is Bennett has been getting spoon fed offensive minutes in Florida.

Offensive Zone Starts (Faceoff): 72%
Offensive Zone Starts (on the fly): 80% (!)

Him and Huberdeau are 1 & 2 on the team by both metrics, and both rank in the top 10 in the league for guys who have played over 300 minutes.

For comparison no Flames player is above 60% for either number.

So you combine that with playing with really strong offensive players like Huberdeau and you’re going to get some points.

After tonight his on ice shooting percentage this year is 13.04% which is 11th in the league. His rookie year was the only year it was above 8% in Calgary.

https://twitter.com/miketgould/statu...553777668?s=21

Flush o-zone starts and a bit of shooting percentage luck and he’s looking great.

Monahan is on pace for 45 points with 3rd line minutes, and he needs to get out of town ASAP. Bennett is on pace for 65 points with all the opportunity in the world, and moving him was one of the biggest failures in organizational history.

Apparently it's a fine line between superstar and failure.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by blankall

Monahan is on pace for 45 points with 3rd line minutes, and he needs to get out of town ASAP. Bennett is on pace for 65 points with all the opportunity in the world, and moving him was one of the biggest failures in organizational history.

Apparently it's a fine line between superstar and failure.

this times a billion

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by AustinL_NHL

It's pretty impressive that despite playing on an incredibly high-powered offensive team that Bennett leads all Panthers in goals/60 by a fair margin at 1.70 (Duclair is second at 1.51), as well as leads all Panthers in ixGF/60, iSCF/60 & iHDCF/60.

He's also 1st among top 6 forwards (3rd among Panthers forwards in general) in xGF% Rel and 1st among all Panthers players (20+ GP) in xGF%.

He's been fantastic.

Just like with Gio, I was happy to see him play a great game and score while the Flames got the win

This is fair, and I’m not sure anybody is arguing that Bennett has been good in Florida.

But a lot of those xGF results, are probably because of this.

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

One other thing that hasn’t been talked about much is Bennett has been getting spoon fed offensive minutes in Florida.

Offensive Zone Starts (Faceoff): 72%
Offensive Zone Starts (on the fly): 80% (!)

Him and Huberdeau are 1 & 2 on the team by both metrics, and both rank in the top 10 in the league for guys who have played over 300 minutes.

For comparison no Flames player is above 60% for either number.

So you combine that with playing with really strong offensive players like Huberdeau and you’re going to get some points.

If I’m starting a Center in the offensive zone 75% of the time, and putting our most skilled offensive playmaker on his wing, then he better be generating amazing xGF numbers.

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by powderjunkie

In JQ's 1st season the Cats were a bubble team with tough odds to make the playoffs at the Covid stoppage. Out 3-1 to NYI in the qualy round.

Winning really't started happening for FLA until they made big bets on a bunch of re-treads...and I suppose you can argue JQ having another (albeit weird) year to make an impact.

Kinda hard to say the Barkov/Huberdeau/Ekblad core missed the playoffs 4/5 years, and was likely to narrowly miss again in 2020. I believe Goalie Bob, Weegar, and Vatrano are the only other carryovers from the 19-20 team (might be missing a guy or two on the fringe)...

I guess they did pick 6 good guys to totally rebuild around on the fly...it's not like Bennett dropped into a core with a long history of success.

That’s right, I think it’s still important to note that a great core still needs good players around them to maximize their potential. But to go from just ok/good like the Flames have been for almost a decade to becoming great team requires the right foundation and that’s what the Flames are missing.

The periphery pieces around the core have been completely interchangeable, but the same core has remained and it has yielded the exact same results over and over and over. I think the teams that have repeated as Stanley Cup champs have all but proven this. Even when they lost good players due to cap reasons, they still remained elite because their cores stayed intact.

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Thing is, a lot of people would have called Duclair, Verhaege and Bennett complementary players before now. And who knew Bob had this in him still? He didn’t look this way in Fla the last couple years.

Yep, that’s what I meant, good players are essentially the complementary pieces. Nothing wrong with being complementary, they still produce, they still get paid well, they can still play with great players and find chemistry, but they can’t drive a line to elite status if they’re the centerpiece.

[Flamesfan05]

Originally Posted by blankall

Monahan is on pace for 45 points with 3rd line minutes, and he needs to get out of town ASAP. Bennett is on pace for 65 points with all the opportunity in the world, and moving him was one of the biggest failures in organizational history.

Apparently it's a fine line between superstar and failure.

Today Bennett is a better and cheaper player. That’s undeniable fact.

Monahan was better 3 yrs ago. Monahan is on the 3rd line because he is not producing with Johnny any more. They tried that for 3 yrs before giving up.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Sam played well tonight.

Good goal, some nice plays early on - one of the only times I noticed Backlund was when Bennett rubbed him out - plus pretty decent chance generation with a shot off the crossbar and the wrap around

Hope he carries it on, and he and his team light up the no gooders

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by Flamesfan05

Today Bennett is a better and cheaper player. That’s undeniable fact.

Monahan was better 3 yrs ago. Monahan is on the 3rd line because he is not producing with Johnny any more. They tried that for 3 yrs before giving up.

I don’t even know how it’s debatable at this point. Bennett is the superior regular season and playoff performer. His competitiveness, physicality and ability to separate players from the puck comes valuable in the postseason.

I keep seeing Monahan’s point totals brought up, but realistically, his role has been reduced to that of an overpaid powerplay specialist. His even strength points are the more telling stat and he’s sitting right next to Trevor Lewis in that department and Lewis doesn’t even get shifts with Gaudreau.

Even tonight, both of Monahan’s goals, who were they assisted by? Gaudreau. His point totals shouldn’t be used as a defense at this point.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by Classic_Sniper

Even tonight, both of Monahan’s goals, who were they assisted by? Gaudreau. His point totals shouldn’t be used as a defense at this point.

Today I learned that goals don't count unless you score them at even strength and unassisted.

Also, playing on a line with Johnny Gaudreau will turn anybody into a 30-goal scorer. Which is why Sam Bennett turned into a powerhouse when put on a line with Gaudreau, and became the #1 centre we all hoped for, and there was never any reason to split them up again. Also, Nick Ritchie scored a bushel of goals on the first line because Gaudreau.

[TheScorpion]

Yeah honestly both of Monahan's goals tonight were the result of great skilled plays that he made. Seriously what more do you want?

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Marc Savard, Marty St. Louis?

Lindholm was a good example I think these are both bad ones

St. Louis was an undrafted player not a top 4 pick

Savard had good seasons here before he was traded and didn’t take off for 3 years after he left

[kyuss275]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

Yeah honestly both of Monahan's goals tonight were the result of great skilled plays that he made. Seriously what more do you want?

What more do you want? How about at least playing up to a 2nd line center considering his contract. He’s not even the best player on the 3rd line and is there because the alternative is Richardson . As someone else mentioned he has become a 1st Pp specialist bottom 6 player. I also say 1st pp specialist with a grain of salt because I believe Mangiapane would be better on the 1st pp than him . Maybe last nights game will get him going scoring wise but I’m not counting on it .

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by kyuss275

What more do you want? How about at least playing up to a 2nd line center considering his contract. He’s not even the best player on the 3rd line and is there because the alternative is Richardson . As someone else mentioned he has become a 1st Pp specialist bottom 6 player. I also say 1st pp specialist with a grain of salt because I believe Mangiapane would be better on the 1st pp than him . Maybe last nights game will get him going scoring wise but I’m not counting on it .

Thing is when he's been off the 4th line this year he's been perfectly fine as a middle 6 center.

The coaches had chosen to play him with Lewis/Richardson and that was never going to work.

Monahan w/Lewis:
TOI: 160
41.0 xGF%
3.80% On Ice Shooting %
1.13 GF/60

Monahan w/o Lewis:
TOI: 246
53.9% xGF%
7.26% On Ice Shooting
2.19 GF/60

His been a perfectly fine middle 6 center when they've actually played him with other middle 6 forwards.

He's played over 20 minutes with 7 different line combos

Lucic-Monahan-Lewis: 71:15 - 49.2% Corsi For - 49.2% xGF
Pitlick-Monahan-Dube: 66:29 - 53.2% Corsi For - 60.8% xGF
Richardson-Monahan-Lewis: 44:08 - 36.5% Corsi For - 31.7% xGF
Mangiapane-Coleman-Monahan: 42:03 - 58.8% Corsi For - 53.0% xGF
Lucic-Monahan-Dube: 41:55 - 54.1% Corsi For - 58.2% xGF
Coleman-Monahan-Lewis: 28:51 - 49.2% Corsi For - 35.5% xGF
Dube-Monahan-Mangiapane: 23:57 - 68.3% Corsi For - 72.6% xGF

There seems to be a trend there...

It's only the three line combinations with Lewis are the only ones below 50% Corsi Split or below 50% xGF split, and that combination was never going to produce offense. Even Gaudreau looks terrible with Lewis (12:25 TOI, 38.1% xGF)

Funniest part is it's the exact same argument that Bennett supporters would have had over the last four years but now it's just about Monahan.

"Bennett Monahan is terrible and shouldn't be in the line up"

"Actually Bennett Monahan is playing perfectly fine when playing with other top 9 forwards, he's struggled on the fourth line with grinders"

[GioforPM]

^^ As I said elsewhere, this is not the only good game Monahan has had effort wise, or even in his own skill level. But in most other games he's made good plays which his offensively challenged linemates couldn't handle, or he's gotten himself into good position and his offensively challenged linemates couldn't get him the puck. I actually think he's carrying the puck more, digging the puck better and generally making good passes. But yeah, it's not a coincidence that most of his points have come when he's not playing with Lewis and Richardson.

[Johnny Makarov]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

Lindholm was a good example I think these are both bad ones

St. Louis was an undrafted player not a top 4 pick

Savard had good seasons here before he was traded and didn’t take off for 3 years after he left

In the next 3 seasons after he left the Flames he had 189 points in 184 games...

He was by far the best offensive player we had on the Flames, at a time where we were dying for goals. Button doesnt even deserve his job at TSN.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

Lindholm was a good example I think these are both bad ones

St. Louis was an undrafted player not a top 4 pick

Savard had good seasons here before he was traded and didn’t take off for 3 years after he left

Originally Posted by Johnny Makarov

In the next 3 seasons after he left the Flames he had 189 points in 184 games...

He was by far the best offensive player we had on the Flames, at a time where we were dying for goals. Button doesnt even deserve his job at TSN.

Yeah, I wasn't talking draft position. By the time Bennett left it was irrelevant, and the same with Savard and MSL. I'd say all three were guys we were expecting more from, and who blew up after they left.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Yeah, I wasn't talking draft position. By the time Bennett left it was irrelevant, and the same with Savard and MSL. I'd say all three were guys we were expecting more from, and who blew up after they left.

The question was:

Who left and became the player everyone thought they would be”

Savard was already scoring at a good clip with the Flames and he continued that and more when he moved on to Atlanta and Boston

MSL was undrafted and I do not believe he was ever considered to be what he eventually became with Tampa before

Bennett was drafted to be and universally assumed to become a top 6 center. He didn’t really ever get close here outside of playoff runs along with the sporadic game/shift over his years here. He goes to Florida and scores 22 goals and 39pts in 40 games there. He is living up to the hype that he had as an 18 year old. Savard and MSL did not have that hype hence why I think it is a poor set of examples.

[Vinny01]

Lindholm:

CAR: 188pts in 374 games = 0.50ppg
CGY: 209pts in 242 games = 0.86ppg

Bennett:
CGY: 140pts in 402 games = 0.34ppg
FLA: 39pts in 40 games = 0.975ppg