PGT: President-Elect Donald J Trump

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Nope, nothing to see here, no ideological agenda whatsoever.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...mp-related-ha/

[photon]

Yeah the recounts so far are finding almost no change, a few more votes for Trump I think.

Historically a recount has only ever changed the count by a few hundred, not tens of thousands.

Though they did find those counting machines that had had the warranty tampering stickers broken on them, not sure what's going on with those.

[zamler]

Can't imagine why they'd ever need to open an electronic device with moving parts.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Originally Posted by photon

Though they did find those counting machines that had had the warranty tampering stickers broken on them, not sure what's going on with those.

My understanding was that there were also some major irregularities in voting patters, demographics that didn't make sense, particularly in... either WI or PA, I can't recall which. So tampering is a possibility, but it's obviously a very remote one. I agree that there's almost no chance of a major change. Sure would be awesome though... one can dream.

[photon]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

My understanding was that there were also some major irregularities in voting patters, demographics that didn't make sense, particularly in... either WI or PA, I can't recall which. So tampering is a possibility, but it's obviously a very remote one.

Someone thought there was, but others with the maths say the irregularities aren't there.

Whenever I repaired devices with tamper proof stickers part of the repair process was to replace those stickers so the warranty would continue to be valid. I would expect a machine to be used for counting votes to have a strict chain of custody and for tamper detection mechanisms to be maintained, if they aren't then this recount exercise could at least have some benefit in highlighting some areas of improvement.

But hacking the vote by hacking individual vote counting devices would be nearly useless so unlikely that it's nothing more than stickers not being replaced when serviced.

[GirlySports]

you guys were right, Jon Stewart hammers both sides and no comedians can match him

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...e-under-obama/

[Senator Clay Davis]

So I'm about to stun most of you, but Trump was actually lying about the Carrier deal. 1,100 jobs saved? Nope, 730....and declining.

The Carrier deal, brokered by President-elect Donald Trump, may not have saved as many factory jobs as was presented at the plant last week in Indianapolis.

Carrier workers received a flyer from the United Steelworkers, Local Union 1999. It details which jobs are staying here in Indy and which are going to Mexico. The numbers are a bit different from last week's big announcement.

Last Thursday, amid much fanfare, President-elect Trump spent time on the factory floor and talked with union workers at the westside Indianapolis Carrier plant.

"We're keeping a little over 1,100 jobs it turns out," he told them.

He also made a big announcement about a big deal reached with United Technologies, Carrier's parent company, to save 1,100 American jobs that were going to be moved to Mexico.

Carrier worker T.J. Bray, who's also a communications rep for the union, told reporters across the country he was thrilled. His phone rang again while we talked with him Monday afternoon.

"I've been getting non-stop phone calls. Non-stop media. It's been a wild, wild week," Bray said.

But Bray and other union workers just learned some new numbers about the actual number of production jobs saved by the Trump-Pence deal.

"We didn't know the breakdown before because no one would give us any information," Union President Chuck Jones told Eyewitness News by phone Monday. "Now what we're losing is 550 member jobs."

"We found out today that more jobs are leaving than what we originally thought," Bray said. "It seemed like since Thursday, it was 1,100 then it was maybe 900 and then now we're at 700. So I'm hoping it doesn't go any lower than that."

Union workers got a letter at the plant saying Trump's deal with Carrier will save only 730 factory jobs in Indianapolis, plus 70 salaried positions - 553 jobs in the plant's fan coil lines are still moving to Monterrey, Mexico.

All 700 workers at Carrier's Huntington plant will also lose their jobs.

http://www.wthr.com/article/usw-730-...-deal-not-1100

[photon]

Carrier's commitment to invest $16 million will also reduce the number of jobs further because that investment will be in automation says the CEO of United Technologies.

Also admits that their government contracts played a roll.

IM CRAMER: What's good about Mexico? What's good about going there? And obviously what's good about staying here?

GREG HAYES: So what's good about Mexico? We have a very talented workforce in Mexico. Wages are obviously significantly lower. About 80% lower on average. But absenteeism runs about 1%. Turnover runs about 2%. Very, very dedicated workforce.

JIM CRAMER: Versus America?

GREG HAYES: Much higher.

...

GREG HAYES: So, there was a cost as we thought about keeping the Indiana plant open. At the same time, and I'll tell you this because you and I, we know each other, but I was born at night but not last night. I also know that about 10% of our revenue comes from the US government. And I know that a better regulatory environment, a lower tax rate can eventually help UTC of the long run.

...

GREG HAYES: Right. Well, and again, if you think about what we talked about last week, we're going to make a $16 million investment in that factory in Indianapolis to automate to drive the cost down so that we can continue to be competitive. Now is it as cheap as moving to Mexico with lower cost of labor? No. But we will make that plant competitive just because we'll make the capital investments there.

JIM CRAMER: Right.

GREG HAYES: But what that ultimately means is there will be fewer jobs.

http://www.businessinsider.com/unite...r-jobs-2016-12

[Senator Clay Davis]

What do you think the odds are he tries to get his own plane upgraded instead? And this will kinda kill some American jobs, so... (he also sounds a lot like a socialist in the bolded).

Edit: More shocking developments, but $4 billion is a crock of #### too. It's $825 million each and they are producing two, for a grand total of $1.65 billion.

President-elect Donald Trump tweeted Tuesday morning that Boeing’s contract to build the next Air Force One should be canceled because of the high cost of the program.

President-elect Donald Trump tweeted Tuesday morning that Boeing’s contract to build the next Air Force One should be canceled because of the high cost of the program.

Boeing was selected as the manufacturer in January 2015. But it wasn’t much of a competition. Boeing’s 747-8 was the only plane made in the United States that could meet the requirements for the presidential aircraft while also being “consistent with the national public interest,” Air Force Secretary Deborah Lee James said in a statement at the time.

She insisted that the Pentagon “will insist upon program affordability through cost-conscious procurement practices.”

Talking to reporters Tuesday morning at Trump Tower, Trump said, “The plane is totally out of control. It’s going to be over $4 billion for Air Force One program and I think it’s ridiculous. I think Boeing is doing a little bit of a number. We want Boeing to make a lot of money, but not that much money.”

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.679d5f0e8fbb

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis

What do you think the odds are he tries to get his own plane upgraded instead? And this will kinda kill some American jobs, so... (he also sounds a lot like a socialist in the bolded).

Edit: More shocking developments, but $4 billion is a crock of #### too. It's $825 million each and they are producing two, for a grand total of $1.65 billion.



https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.679d5f0e8fbb

Nope, It was 4 billion, Trump said so, then he negotiated them down to 1.65 saving the US taxpayer 2.3 billion dollars. Another big win for Trump.

[Hack&Lube]

Originally Posted by photon

GREG HAYES: So what's good about Mexico? We have a very talented workforce in Mexico. Wages are obviously significantly lower. About 80% lower on average. But absenteeism runs about 1%. Turnover runs about 2%. Very, very dedicated workforce.

JIM CRAMER: Versus America?

GREG HAYES: Much higher.

That's not surprising. A factory job with an American company in Mexico is a worker's lifeblood and probably quite lucrative. The equivalent one in America is probably affected by spoiled Union workers working slowly with high rates of absenteeism. I won't say laziness but we've all seen/heard the usual tropes about Union workers sitting around and not being competitive or industrious because they have no fear of losing their jobs.

[photon]

Even if it was $4 billion, it would need to be compared to the alternative (maintaining the existing planes further). He's just sad he won't get to use them.

Or this is just so Trump can justify hiding in his tower for the whole presidency.

$1.65 billion for 2 planes that'll last 30 years that are nuclear EM shielded, can avoid missiles, can be mid-air refueled and don't require an ground crew (build in self deploying stairs and baggage handling) that operate as complete replacements for the White House seems pretty reasonable, considering the planes themselves are about half that.

[Senator Clay Davis]

And Boeing flips Trump the double birds.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

Nope, nothing to see here, no ideological agenda whatsoever.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...mp-related-ha/

Originally Posted by GirlySports

you guys were right, Jon Stewart hammers both sides and no comedians can match him

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...e-under-obama/

This is kind of why media literacy is becoming so important. It is important to know if the information is credible or if it is misinformation or disinformation. Is the information primary source, or is it an echo of another article from elsewhere? How credible is the author? Does the author have a well known agenda? Are the fact presented completely and accurately? Does it appear the author dug into the details and verified all information? Did the author articulate the meaning or context of information as stated by the original source?

For example:

The Washington Times is more of an aggregator of news, who reframe their stories with a more conservative bend, than they are an investigative paper. This was the intent when Rev. Moon (the Moonies Cult) put the paper together, wanting to be a more conservative voice than the Washington Post. That should be considered as you read information from their site.

On the first link, this is an echo from an article originally in the NY Post (tabloid). The primary source author is a gentleman named Paul Sperry. Mr. Sperry has a history of writing anti-Muslim screed, so his input on the subject matter may not come without major bias. It should be noted that the actual report is not fully discussed, nor methodology reviewed. These are important details to understand research and findings.

The second link is also a report on a report, and kind of cherry picks what Stewart said. It also doesn't take into consideration that comedians have their stage persona and their real life persona. The article is incomplete IMO and is more commentary than news.

Now before I get jumped on by a certain poster, I'm not saying that these links shouldn't be used, just recognize the type of media they are. Media literacy matters.

[zamler]

Jim Cramer? If you like to lose money take financial advice from that guy.

[SeeBass]

Originally Posted by photon

Carrier's commitment to invest $16 million will also reduce the number of jobs further because that investment will be in automation says the CEO of United Technologies.

Also admits that their government contracts played a roll.

IM CRAMER: What's good about Mexico? What's good about going there? And obviously what's good about staying here?

GREG HAYES: So what's good about Mexico? We have a very talented workforce in Mexico. Wages are obviously significantly lower. About 80% lower on average. But absenteeism runs about 1%. Turnover runs about 2%. Very, very dedicated workforce.

JIM CRAMER: Versus America?

GREG HAYES: Much higher.

...

GREG HAYES: So, there was a cost as we thought about keeping the Indiana plant open. At the same time, and I'll tell you this because you and I, we know each other, but I was born at night but not last night. I also know that about 10% of our revenue comes from the US government. And I know that a better regulatory environment, a lower tax rate can eventually help UTC of the long run.

...

GREG HAYES: Right. Well, and again, if you think about what we talked about last week, we're going to make a $16 million investment in that factory in Indianapolis to automate to drive the cost down so that we can continue to be competitive. Now is it as cheap as moving to Mexico with lower cost of labor? No. But we will make that plant competitive just because we'll make the capital investments there.

JIM CRAMER: Right.

GREG HAYES: But what that ultimately means is there will be fewer jobs.

http://www.businessinsider.com/unite...r-jobs-2016-12

Besides lowering the US wage. What can North America do to narrow the gap? These people are doing the exact same job. Maybe that is the solution. Get Mexican wages up.

[Bigtime]

No way the Air Force would allow Trump to use his 757 as Air Force One, they want 4 engines for maximum redundancy and safety. Plus the 757 is small (and only a narrow body) compared to the 747, there is a lot of stuff in AF1 that just would not fit in a 757.

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by Bigtime

No way the Air Force would allow Trump to use his 757 as Air Force One, they want 4 engines for maximum redundancy and safety. Plus the 757 is small (and only a narrow body) compared to the 747, there is a lot of stuff in AF1 that just would not fit in a 757.

I doubt they'd physically restrain him if he hopped on his 757. Doesn't seem to me that anybody can stop him from doing whatever he wants. He's likely the most powerful man in the world.

[Nufy]

I'm sure Trump will try and rent his plane to the airforce for a nominal fee...

[opendoor]

Originally Posted by SeeBass

Besides lowering the US wage. What can North America do to narrow the gap? These people are doing the exact same job. Maybe that is the solution. Get Mexican wages up.

You can make it uneconomical for companies to outsource, either through tariffs on imported goods or other punitive measures, but that comes with more bad than good for the general population IMO. Costs for everyone go up just to prop up a small number of manufacturing jobs.

And in some cases it won't even save the jobs, as the US isn't the only market in the world these companies are making products for. If a company gets a lot of its sales from outside the US then it probably makes more sense to just pay the tariff on your goods destined for the US and keep production costs low for what you sell in the rest of the world. In any case where that happens, Americans would get vastly higher priced goods with little to no increase in jobs.