Brad Treliving needs to go

[timbit]

Originally Posted by Joborule

That's actually a trade I would want this off season, and would consider that a terrific deal in the Flames favour. The team got a surplus of defenders that they could play with, and ideally the young defenders on the team would continue to progress. Therefore if it can clear up cap space to bring in a scoring forward, that would be fantastic.

But with cap, likely need costs back. So getting a forward would be more realistic.

Hanifin is 3 months younger than Andersson, 4 months younger than Mackey, 18 months older than Valimaki, 3 months older than Kylington.

Hanifin is significantly better than all of them.

Surplus never trumps high end quality , concerning D.

1st and 2 seconds is ridiculous, IMO.

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by flambers

Don't believe the Flat cap, had anything to do with Brodie leaving.

Flames were trying to sign him, player wanted to leave.

If you believe the comments from the media last years UFA.

I think there is truth to this, but I also think there was interest on Brodie’s side that he would have resigned. At least, that is what I recall being discussed on the day he signed.

I mean, what happens if the Flames sign Brodie first, and miss out on Markstrom? Does Markstrom sign in Edmonton then? Sets off a whole chain of events.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Poor GM needs to be able to prioritize and multi task

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

Poor GM needs to be able to prioritize and multi task

You think he didn’t do this? Back to filling your diaper, I see.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by timbit

Hanifin is 3 months younger than Andersson, 4 months younger than Mackey, 18 months older than Valimaki, 3 months older than Kylington.

Hanifin is significantly better than all of them.

Surplus never trumps high end quality , concerning D.

1st and 2 seconds is ridiculous, IMO.

None of those players are worth close to that though.

What do you think Hanifin returns in a trade? A first and 2 seconds seems fair to me if that's the direction you want to go. Especially if they're in the top half of the draft.

If you're going to remake the club you're going to have to give up value.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by kukkudo

If a team offered a 2022 1st pick and a 2021 2nd rounder and 2023 2nd rounder for Hanifin, you take that and run .

Depends highly on the team offering no?

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by TOfan

You think he didn’t do this? Back to filling your diaper, I see.

How mature.

It was documented that he put off Brodie until Markstrom was resolved

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by TOfan

Here’s a list of all the players selected with the picks Treliving has surrendered:

Matheson Iacopelli
Zachary Senyshyn
Jacob Forsback Karlson
Jeremy Lauzon
Jens Looke
Adin Hill
Jordan Kyrou
Nicolas Nordgren
Stuart Skinner
Akira Schmid
Alex Formenton
Noah Dobson
Ruslan Ishakov
Samuel Bolduc
Kevin Wall
Tyler Angle
Kim Nouslianen
Juho Markkanen
Wyatt Kaiser

He also has an outstanding 4th to LA for the disastrous Forbort trade.

I’ve highlighted the players that look to be actual NHL player. Of course, we should also take into account some of the players Treliving drafted with picks he acquired through trade, such as Anderson and Dube. Instead of presenting an argument without taking any context into account, which seems to be the popular sentiment around here, the full picture should be understood and acknowledged.

From an organizational perspective, and I can only make my assumptions from how this organization has gone about its business for decades, but making the playoffs is expected, not a luxury while they wait for a fraction of their draft picks to turn out.

Also worth pointing out that of the last four trades Treliving has made, he has acquired picks in all of them.

Jeremy Lauzon played 41 games this year for the Bruins and 19 games last year so he looks like he is a NHL player

Formenton played 20 games for the Sens as a 21 year old, so he looks like he is a NHL player.

It is likely that one or two more pan out on that list, so even in a world where you compare just the players that were picked there are 7 players on that list.

The assets the Flames have left from those trades 24-48 months later are

Hanifin
Lindholm (although I would argue you should really only count one of these two players as Fox and Ferland were probably worth one of them)

I might be missing an asset from those trades, but that is really all I can think of.

Giving up 5 NHL players and potentially one or two more, all of whom are cost controlled to varying degrees for the first 7 years of their careers for one NHL asset is a tough look.

[Joborule]

Originally Posted by timbit

Hanifin is 3 months younger than Andersson, 4 months younger than Mackey, 18 months older than Valimaki, 3 months older than Kylington.

Hanifin is significantly better than all of them.

Surplus never trumps high end quality , concerning D.

1st and 2 seconds is ridiculous, IMO.

Out of all those players, Hanifin got the most value, and is a player that Flames could afford giving up in order to resolve their biggest need which is producing goals.

Just like how trading Gaudreau or Tkachuk can bring in the best deal, Hanifin I think is the defender that can bring in the best from his position.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Joborule

Out of all those players, Hanifin got the most value, and is a player that Flames could afford giving up in order to resolve their biggest need which is producing goals.

Just like how trading Gaudreau or Tkachuk can bring in the best deal, Hanifin I think is the defender that can bring in the best from his position.

This. You at least can't discount the idea of trading Hanifin or any other player. Of course he is better and more valuable than Kylington and Mackey.

Guess what trading those guys gets you?

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

Jeremy Lauzon played 41 games this year for the Bruins and 19 games last year so he looks like he is a NHL player

Formenton played 20 games for the Sens as a 21 year old, so he looks like he is a NHL player.

It is likely that one or two more pan out on that list, so even in a world where you compare just the players that were picked there are 7 players on that list.

The assets the Flames have left from those trades 24-48 months later are

Hanifin
Lindholm (although I would argue you should really only count one of these two players as Fox and Ferland were probably worth one of them)

I might be missing an asset from those trades, but that is really all I can think of.

Giving up 5 NHL players and potentially one or two more, all of whom are cost controlled to varying degrees for the first 7 years of their careers for one NHL asset is a tough look.

Not sure any of those guys really change the trajectory of the team. Formenton had 6 points in 20 games. Lauzon looks solid in his role. Dobson is the one that stings.

But that isn't to say I disagree with the point. The Flames gave up too much draft capital to try and crank open their contention window based on assumptions that the team was ready to take that step. Which now with the benefit of 20/20 proved to be wrong. But the point is the more bullets you have in the chamber, the more likely you do run into an impactful player in the 2nd and 3rd rounds. So I don't necessarily like the comparison to the specific player picked in that slot. I think you could realistically look at that player and the others drafted 3-5 picks later to see what was possible.
So for instance with the Formenton pick the real prize is Comtois drafted at 50 and looks like a strong player.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Joborule

Out of all those players, Hanifin got the most value, and is a player that Flames could afford giving up in order to resolve their biggest need which is producing goals.

Just like how trading Gaudreau or Tkachuk can bring in the best deal, Hanifin I think is the defender that can bring in the best from his position.

Again depends on the teams involved if you trade him for a 1st, 2nd and 3rd and it ends up being say #26 and a late 2nd and late 3rd - not a great deal.

[timbit]

Originally Posted by Joborule

Out of all those players, Hanifin got the most value, and is a player that Flames could afford giving up in order to resolve their biggest need which is producing goals.

Just like how trading Gaudreau or Tkachuk can bring in the best deal, Hanifin I think is the defender that can bring in the best from his position.

Hanifin just turned 24 and is on a team friendly contract with term.

IMO, you don’t trade those kind of D for draft picks, unless it’s a lottery pick and plus in a great draft. Otherwise, you substantially weaken the high end of the D corp.

As far as trading for a goal scorer, that’s what the 6 mil plus Fs on the team are supposed to be doing.

Trade them.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Again depends on the teams involved if you trade him for a 1st, 2nd and 3rd and it ends up being say #26 and a late 2nd and late 3rd - not a great deal.

Definitely. But also depends on what kind of forward those picks could help you net in a deal.

I think we are all pretty sure no one is tearing this team down to start building in the draft.

[Goriders]

Originally Posted by TOfan

I think there is truth to this, but I also think there was interest on Brodie’s side that he would have resigned. At least, that is what I recall being discussed on the day he signed.

I mean, what happens if the Flames sign Brodie first, and miss out on Markstrom? Does Markstrom sign in Edmonton then? Sets off a whole chain of events.

I like the Tanev for Brodie swap. To say we got nothing for Brodie isn’t really the reality. We got his cap space.

After watching both I’d rather have Tanev to be honest. I think he’s a more well rounded defensemen

[timbit]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

This. You at least can't discount the idea of trading Hanifin or any other player. Of course he is better and more valuable than Kylington and Mackey.

Guess what trading those guys gets you?

....,and Valimaki and Andersson.

And anyone else playing D on the Flames.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by Goriders

I like the Tanev for Brodie swap. To say we got nothing for Brodie isn’t really the reality. We got his cap space.

After watching both I’d rather have Tanev to be honest.

Depends on your lens. Problem is, IMO, in terms of role, it was supposed to be

Tanev for Hamonic (upgrade)
Andersson for Brodie (next step forward)

Andersson was not ready and got paid early

To me, paying Talbot for 3 years plus keeping Brodie would have been better than losing Brodie and adding Markstrom

[Joborule]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Again depends on the teams involved if you trade him for a 1st, 2nd and 3rd and it ends up being say #26 and a late 2nd and late 3rd - not a great deal.

Doesn't even have to be exclusively picks. Could include players if it's a move that's done for immediate results.

If the team is moreso in a rebuilding state of mind, then I agree that the level of the picks does matter more then.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Joborule

Doesn't even have to be exclusively picks. Could include players if it's a move that's done for immediate results.

If the team is moreso in a rebuilding state of mind, then I agree that the level of the picks does matter more then.

Yup. I was reacting largely to this:

"If a team offered a 2022 1st pick and a 2021 2nd rounder and 2023 2nd rounder for Hanifin, you take that and run ."

I don't think anyone should be considered unmovable on this team, but Hanifin would rank low on the list of guys I would be moving unless you can net an outstanding return. Despite some struggles from some (e.g. Rasmus) I still like the blueline going forward. Lots of pieces there.

It's the forward group where my focus would be.

[dammage79]

Yeah, the D corps is fine IMO. Gio is about the only one who has a short shelf life due to age and inevitable advanced decline.

Flames really need to go into a seismic shift at Forward. That should be their sole focus this offseason.