Star Trek General Discussion

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Locke

With God as my witness I tried. I really tried.

My wife wanted to watch it because she went to High School and is Facebook friends with one of the actors in it...

But we just couldn't do it.

We watched the one episode where the alien second officer Manu Manu or whatever dies but then flowers wont let him or some such nonsense?

Once in a while in Discovery they'll stumble onto an episode that's actually good.

But for the most part Mikey kills the show, so I watch it almost like its an episode of Mystery Science Fiction Theatre.

Some things that just made me laugh

1) The Kiss style concert fire cannons on the bride when the ship takes damage. Its so over the top.

2) How terrible the nuklingons were. I mean lets take something well rounded and explored like the Klingons and change them and put the actors in so much makeup that it becomes clear they're dudes in a mask.

3) How utterly awful the whole mirror universe was like it was literally the worst. Instead of the mirror universe from the other shows where the Terrans were this brutal empire obsessed with conquest and survival, they practically made the mirror universe a bunch of over the top pirates, I was begging for them to break into a pirates of Penzance musical number..

4) The end of empress George, when they sat around a table and talked about how she was a bad ass woman. No she was a psychopath cannibal with no redeeming qualities.

5) The end of Lorca, I mean they might as well have had a three stooges wah wah wah for the dumbest end to a villain possible.

6) Ok there's five minutes of oxygen left and they have to save the ship and Ensign Tilley does a three minute staff meeting to tell everyone how much she loves them.

7) Ok they're in the middle of a battle and discovery is taking damage and they hold a staff meeting so Tilly can tell Mike how awesome she is and that she should take command.

8) we can't use the spore drive, yes we can forget about all that other stuff.

9) One of the main villains in a season arching story line that caused all the dilithium to explode was a scared crybaby.

10) Detmer, I always feel sorry for her as she is furniture, but they hint at this great idea of a PTSD story line for her, but solve it in 10 minutes. Doctor - "Hey its a struggle and we'll get you through this" Detmer - "Nah". Then again she's the second worst written piece of furniture on the show to android bridge thingy. When Mike gets dragged onto discovery she meets the scarred up Detmer, and instead of exploring the feelings of betrayal and the consequences, Detmer joins the Mikey fan club.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Locke

Yeah, this is something that bugs me too and kind of why I'm more endeared to Lower Decks.

This attitude kind of assumes that 'everyone in Starfleet' is the 'Best of the Best' which just isnt true.

And I think SNW does a good job of that especially with Uhura. She's a cadet then an Ensign, but she was the top of her class and a clear workaholic...thats the kind of person you'd expect on the Flagship.

At the end with Scotty, she mentions that while his grades werent great he was a gifted student at the academy. Thats Flagship material.

Ortegas. Top pilot and War Hero. Flagship material.

That kind of thing.

I get what you're saying, but even in real life its not necessarily true that the elite crew members get assigned to a flag ship. They'll likely get a cadre of really experienced and competent NCOs and officers, but they're just as likely to get a lot of young not great crew members too.



I was watching a documentary on the new British Aircraft carrier, I think it was the Queen Elizabeth. And a lot of the crew were pretty much raw out of their naval basic schools. Even most of the pilots were brand new to carrier aviation.



The one thing that was done well in Generations for example was that the Captain came on board and didn't know most of the crew, he didn't hand pick Riker or O'Brien.



In Star Wars lore they talk about how Vader's flag ship was staffed by the best officers in the Imperial Navy, the best of the best because it was the route to quick promotions. So when the Executor smashed into the Death Star the Empire lost most of their most competent officers and the fleet was lost.

[Shazam]

I mean how “good” can a Starfleet officer be when compared to Burnam.

[Ped]

I thought he did handpick Riker.

[OutOfTheCube]

Originally Posted by Locke

Yeah, this is something that bugs me too and kind of why I'm more endeared to Lower Decks.

This attitude kind of assumes that 'everyone in Starfleet' is the 'Best of the Best' which just isnt true.

And I think SNW does a good job of that especially with Uhura. She's a cadet then an Ensign, but she was the top of her class and a clear workaholic...thats the kind of person you'd expect on the Flagship.

At the end with Scotty, she mentions that while his grades werent great he was a gifted student at the academy. Thats Flagship material.

Ortegas. Top pilot and War Hero. Flagship material.

That kind of thing.

Even then -- there's an early episode of TNG where Wesley goes to some Starfleet Academy selection thing, and they've got a group of teens there that are all genius prodigies like him, but they only have room for one at Starfleet Academy so too bad for the rest. Later on it just seems like any old idiot can enroll at Starfleet Academy and bluff their way through it.

[Shazam]

Yeah that episode was ridiculously stupid.

[Hack&Lube]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

I get what you're saying, but even in real life its not necessarily true that the elite crew members get assigned to a flag ship. They'll likely get a cadre of really experienced and competent NCOs and officers, but they're just as likely to get a lot of young not great crew members too.



I was watching a documentary on the new British Aircraft carrier, I think it was the Queen Elizabeth. And a lot of the crew were pretty much raw out of their naval basic schools. Even most of the pilots were brand new to carrier aviation.



The one thing that was done well in Generations for example was that the Captain came on board and didn't know most of the crew, he didn't hand pick Riker or O'Brien.



In Star Wars lore they talk about how Vader's flag ship was staffed by the best officers in the Imperial Navy, the best of the best because it was the route to quick promotions. So when the Executor smashed into the Death Star the Empire lost most of their most competent officers and the fleet was lost.

That might be more due to the British Navy being a pale shadow of its former self in the 21st century and The HMS Queen Elizabeth was their only aircraft carrier so nobody else was trained for carrier operations.

The HMS Prince of Wales won't be operational until 2023/24.

Starfleet has hundreds of ships. The Enterprise is supposed to be the cream of the crop, hence why Brocolli wasn't considered "Enterprise material" by the stuffy staff.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by OutOfTheCube

Even then -- there's an early episode of TNG where Wesley goes to some Starfleet Academy selection thing, and they've got a group of teens there that are all genius prodigies like him, but they only have room for one at Starfleet Academy so too bad for the rest. Later on it just seems like any old idiot can enroll at Starfleet Academy and bluff their way through it.

Silly Cube...you cant judge Starfleet by a 'Wesley Episode.'

[Blaster86]

Originally Posted by Locke

Silly Cube...you cant judge Starfleet by a 'Wesley Episode.'

Actually, I think you can.

Starfleet is very clearly a school, and while this is the future we still have people talking about classes and professors etc. For that to work, you still need to have semesters and terms which means you just don't get to come and go as you please. Regular enrollment is likely no different than it is today, albeit with no tuition fee. You take the entrance exams, you do well you enroll at the beginning of the term.

What we saw in Coming of Age was an opportunity for someone who was too young to or unable to enroll at the start of the term being given an opportunity to enter into Stafleet academy.
Crusher was likely too young, came to the right age and was given an opportunity to enroll early due to his prodigy status.

Mordock, was from a non-federation planet which means he likely hadn't been given his Officer approval to apply in time for regular enrollment. He would go on to be the first Benzite in Starfleet. We know Benzar wasn't a federation planet from the season 2 episode Matter of Honor when Mendon explains his position on the Enterprise and the officer exchange program.

T'Shanik is odd, until you realize the character was originally supposed to be a Klingon, so was likely intended to be in the same boat as Mordock.

Olinia Mirren is the only one I can't find a tie in for. She admits to being nothing special, but still somehow got into this early entrance exam. Have to assume nepotism. Mom is probably a Captain or something.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Blaster86

Actually, I think you can.

Starfleet is very clearly a school, and while this is the future we still have people talking about classes and professors etc. For that to work, you still need to have semesters and terms which means you just don't get to come and go as you please. Regular enrollment is likely no different than it is today, albeit with no tuition fee. You take the entrance exams, you do well you enroll at the beginning of the term.

What we saw in Coming of Age was an opportunity for someone who was too young to or unable to enroll at the start of the term being given an opportunity to enter into Stafleet academy.
Crusher was likely too young, came to the right age and was given an opportunity to enroll early due to his prodigy status.

Mordock, was from a non-federation planet which means he likely hadn't been given his Officer approval to apply in time for regular enrollment. He would go on to be the first Benzite in Starfleet. We know Benzar wasn't a federation planet from the season 2 episode Matter of Honor when Mendon explains his position on the Enterprise and the officer exchange program.

T'Shanik is odd, until you realize the character was originally supposed to be a Klingon, so was likely intended to be in the same boat as Mordock.

Olinia Mirren is the only one I can't find a tie in for. She admits to being nothing special, but still somehow got into this early entrance exam. Have to assume nepotism. Mom is probably a Captain or something.

Actually...I think you can't.

1. T'Shanik makes no sense, as you claimed she was supposed to be a Klingon, but she wasnt so...Starfleet failed there.

2. Mirren makes no sense. Nepotism would explain that, you're correct there.

3. Mordock and Crusher are the only ones who make sense. Trying to butter up a non-Federation race (although its not like they pay dues or anything so who cares?) and a supposed genius who is a perpetual danger to flora.

4. It seems ridiculous that Starfleet would have:

a) Only one Academy
b) Enrolment limits (did you see ST: Picard? The Fleet is enormous! You're not pumping that many people through San Francisco Bay!)

And then one realizes that a Galaxy Class (obsolete) starship with a crew complement of 1,012 can be run by 4 people as evidenced in Picard when Data, Geordi, Crusher and Troi flew it through a Borg Cube including when Gerodi says he hadnt gotten all the weapons systems online so they needed an additional person to actually do things instead of them being automated.

Where was I going with this now? Oh yes! It dont make no sense!

Colloquially speaking.

[Blaster86]

Originally Posted by Locke

And then one realizes that a Galaxy Class (obsolete) starship with a crew complement of 1,012 can be run by 4 people as evidenced in Picard when Data, Geordi, Crusher and Troi flew it through a Borg Cube including when Gerodi says he hadnt gotten all the weapons systems online so they needed an additional person to actually do things instead of them being automated.

30 years of new tech allowed Geordi to do some retrofitting that cut down the amount of crew needed. Could do everything from the bridge stations instead of needing people on the actual deck.


Automation!


Edit- And yes,there is only one academy. Makes no sense, but here we are. Probably an annex on the moon or something.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Blaster86

30 years of new tech allowed Geordi to do some retrofitting that cut down the amount of crew needed. Could do everything from the bridge stations instead of needing people on the actual deck.


Automation!


Edit- And yes,there is only one academy. Makes no sense, but here we are. Probably an annex on the moon or something.

The Professors Union in San Francisco must be an organization to truly behold if they've prevented Academy expansion across the Galaxy!

"Nooope....all Starfleet must come through here!"

[Blaster86]

Originally Posted by Locke

The Professors Union in San Francisco must be an organization to truly behold if they've prevented Academy expansion across the Galaxy!

"Nooope....all Starfleet must come through here!"

No Unions either!The FCA has eyes everywhere.

[timun]

Employees are the rungs on the ladder of success; don't hesitate to step on them. Rule of Acquisition 211.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Blaster86

No Unions either!The FCA has eyes everywhere.

I've heard that Section 31's Union is pretty strong.

You dont get away with that much 'Guiltless Genocide' without some pretty strong backing.

[Blaster86]

Originally Posted by Locke

I've heard that Section 31's Union is pretty strong.

You dont get away with that much 'Guiltless Genocide' without some pretty strong backing.

I think the backing is the willingness to do guiltless genocide.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Blaster86

I think the backing is the willingness to do guiltless genocide.

It is a 'Chicken and Egg' kind of thing I suppose.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Blaster86

I think the backing is the willingness to do guiltless genocide.

I mean...if you're going to 'do genocide' anyways, the guiltless kind is probably the best kind?

[Blaster86]

Originally Posted by Locke

It is a 'Chicken and Egg' kind of thing I suppose.

Sloan's speeches in DS9 were so good. Like does anyone really think that the Federation became the premiere Alpha Quadrant power without being next tier at black ops? Once the question got asked, you realize there is no chance the Federation wins wars against military-focused cultures every time without it. Cardassians, Klingons, Breen, Gorn, The Dominion, Zenkethi.

[timun]

*Tzenkethi