[Trade] Tkachuk (8 yrs x $9.5 mil) + `25 4th to FLA for Huberdeau, Weegar, Schwindt & `25 1st

[midniteowl]

Originally Posted by memphusk

I'm out of the loop on this but Giroux signed with a team that already has a Captain before he was part of the team and he's upset?

May be he is upset how Brady got it?

[djsFlames]

Originally Posted by midniteowl

I don't think either one care about the BOA, they just don't seem to hate the Oilers enough. I hope the new comer hate the Oilers like the fans do, I'm sure Kadri hate them after last playoff.

After the injury from Kane, I bet the thought of several dates next season to exact some revenge and torment EK crossed his mind. Though personally I'd rather he just take McDavid out of his element and shut him down. That would be the most valuable thing he could provide.

Matt and John were never engaged in the BOA like it meant something personal to them. Johnny always played the Flyers like he should've played the Oilers and that kind of pisses me off.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by memphusk

I'm out of the loop on this but Giroux signed with a team that already has a Captain before he was part of the team and he's upset?

I dont think he's upset specifically because Brady is the Captain, but upset because it wasnt earned.

The GM usurped the Coach and the lockerroom.

Thats just not how its done.

Think about it this way...there is a wage hierarchy depending on players and their standing. Thats the business end of things, everyone has to acknowledge and accept that some people are going to be paid more or less for whatever reasons.

The Captaincy however should be 'Team' oriented. Not 'Business' oriented.

Your Captain doesnt need to be the highest-paid player or the best player, just the guy that the entire team respects, who has earned it. If you mandate that contractually rather than organically, then you omit the input of all of the other players on the team and the coaches. Its bad.

Just think about it logically.

"I want to be the Captain, but I cant earn it and all the other players wont go for it, so I'll strong-arm the GM into giving it to me."

What do you think that does to the morale of the roster?

Giroux never explicitly said that he wanted to be the Captain, at least not in the conversation that I listened to, all I heard was that the radio commentators mentioned that he was upset that the Captaincy was essentially 'paid for' within the Tkachuk contract.

And I think from a player's perspective that is a legit Gripe.

And that is not what the Sutter-led Calgary Flames are about.

[memphusk]

Originally Posted by Cole436

I'm guessing it comes out of the old "Always earned, never given" mantra.

Yeah thats probably right but it just seems strange to bitch about that when you received the best contract available at his age.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by memphusk

Yeah thats probably right but it just seems strange to bitch about that when you received the best contract available at his age.

Again, 'Business vs. Team.'

Contracts are supposed to be about money and control, not about placement.

What if Brady had contractually demanded to be Ottawa's #1 LW for the entire length of his contract?

Regardless of injury, bad year, young kid usurped him, whatever the case may be. He had to be #1 LW. No matter what.

30 points a season? #1 LW. Its in the contract.

What do you think thats going to do to the room?

[memphusk]

Originally Posted by Locke

Again, 'Business vs. Team.'

Contracts are supposed to be about money and control, not about placement.

What if Brady had contractually demanded to be Ottawa's #1 LW for the entire length of his contract?

Regardless of injury, bad year, young kid usurped him, whatever the case may be. He had to be #1 LW. No matter what.

30 points a season? #1 LW. Its in the contract.

What do you think thats going to do to the room?

Yes I get what you're saying, but Giroux signed on knowing that Tkachuk was already the captain. If he's already sour why sign to start with?

[Locke]

Originally Posted by memphusk

Yes I get what you're saying, but Giroux signed on knowing that Tkachuk was already the captain. If he's already sour why sign to start with?

Oh. Thats easy. Money. Of course.

But once the money decision is done and out of the way, the 'Team' issue still exists.

Like I said, Giroux never said he wanted to be Captain, according to some Radio hosts (this ain't me, I just listened to the provided content) Giroux was upset that the GM over-ruled the players on deciding who was their Captain.

If you have to buy your way into being Captain, there is going to be resentment. Thats it. Thats all.

There are certain things that are Ownership decisions, there are certain things that are Management decisions, there are certain things that are Coaching decisions and there are certain things that are Player decisions.

When one level essentially steals from another you are going to have a natural knock-on domino effect.

[midniteowl]

Originally Posted by djsFlames

After the injury from Kane, I bet the thought of several dates next season to exact some revenge and torment EK crossed his mind. Though personally I'd rather he just take McDavid out of his element and shut him down. That would be the most valuable thing he could provide.

Matt and John were never engaged in the BOA like it meant something personal to them. Johnny always played the Flyers like he should've played the Oilers and that kind of pisses me off.

I'm from the eighties BOA, and watching those two never engaged really pissed me off. In the 80's, Oilers can beat us on the ice but we will beat them up on the ice. I still remembered how Riser shredded McSorely's jersey in the penalty box, that's the hatred I expect every Flames player has for Oilers.

[FireGilbert]

I didn't even know the captaincy could be part of a contract as anything more than a handshake agreement. Could a player also negotiate a jersey number, brand of soft drink in the locker room, or to be called Sir-scores-a-lot?

[Cole436]

Originally Posted by FireGilbert

I didn't even know the captaincy could be part of a contract as anything more than a handshake agreement. Could a player also negotiate a jersey number, brand of soft drink in the locker room, or to be called Sir-scores-a-lot?

Messier did that exact thing when he signed with Vancouver, not caring at all the number was unofficially retired due to the death of Wayne Maki.

[calgaryboy]

Another Ruzicka quotes from that podcast with ex NHLer Marian Gaborik - I just finished listening :
No sex before the game, but if it would have to be something special, why not :-)
Now has 99kg - practiced hard all summer.
Dont want another Canadian girlfriend, had one, and it was a waste of his 3 years of life.
Flames are still searching for another winger, so tough situation for him.
He expects his contract to be done next week.
Darryl really tough on players. Darryl unpredictable. Smiled after one loss, another day mad after big win. Everybody on their toes during games and practices.
Gaborik saying it was tough to play under Darryl in LA. Won 1 Stanley Cup with him though....did not go into any details.
Lucic best teammate for him. Spent Christmas with his family. Took him under his wings.
Flames players doing team bonding gatherings all season long. Good locker room.
As for 13 - confirmed it was all about family for him, expecting baby etc. Well known stuff like that.
Tkachuk insisted on capitancy. Sounds like it was really the main reason why he left /did not want to sign long term/ - really interesting stuff.
Liked him as a teammate. "Great guy" per his words.
No dickhead in Flames locker room. Veteran players always say something when something is wrong. But everybody was good to him and Vladar /2 youngest Flames/
Best moments during the season were the times when he played regularly /team winning in those games/, after that Trade deadline came and it was the end for him.
Play-off series with Edmonton really tough and hard /said it was good to have guys like Looch, Gudbranson and Zadorov in the fold/.
Was almost impossible to stop McJesus and that German guy /he reffered them as McDavid and Draisaitl :-)/
His times in Stockton - town full of crime, shooting all over the place, no restaurants there.
He is nervous about his new contract /he is qualified RFA/ - Flames have to make a decision if he stays with the team, otherwise he has to go through waivers and anybody can take him.
Gaborik said Ruzicka should say hi to Darryl for him in the end of the interview :-)

So that is all guys. Will put this also to "When does Ruzicka sign and for how much?" thread.

Greetings from Czech Republic! Go Flames!!!

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Originally Posted by midniteowl

I'm from the eighties BOA, and watching those two never engaged really pissed me off. In the 80's, Oilers can beat us on the ice but we will beat them up on the ice. I still remembered how Riser shredded McSorely's jersey in the penalty box, that's the hatred I expect every Flames player has for Oilers.

You're going to need to adjust your expectations then. That level of animosity and circus-like environment will never occur again. The players are too professional, and the league will not tolerate those sorts of crazy displays.

What you hope to see is a team that battles, and battles hard. Every puck, every faceoff, every corner scrum, every net-front battle...that's where you can tell when players care or not. That's where you see the guys like Tanev and Backlund really shine. It was just unfortunate that Tanev was hurt during that Oilers series. It almost certainly would have changed the tone.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Jason14h

This is getting out of hand . MT doesn’t hate the oilers? Remember Kassian ?

Come on - just because we lost and they left let’s not go full insanity and start completely questioning their character and will to win

We had multi goal leads in 3 of the 5 games ( or at least game 1 and 2, can’t remember game 5 if it was 1 or 2 goals lead ). Let’s not act like we rolled over and didn’t compete

We had a goalie who couldn’t stop a beach ball , and no answer for the Oilers top 4 players ( Including Hyman )

Sometimes things go sideways and you loose . Look at TB vs Columbus

Yeah I have never questioned effort from Tkachuk (nor Gaudreau), and clearly he wanted to win.

They both scored huge game 7 goals against Dallas or the Edmonton series doesn't even happen.

Honestly the captain rumour makes me think he actually wanted to stay here long term, but had some sort of twisted view of being destined to be captain because of his brother and that is what made him want out.

The captain thing no longer fits the always wanting to leave narrative.

Don't blame the Flames for balking on that demand (if true), and I think the team is better built now to win against teams like Edmonton and Colorado because of the trade, but this update makes me less disappointed in Tkachuk in some ways.

[Johnny Makarov]

Lucic best teammate for him. Spent Christmas with his family. Took him under his wings.

This is why we need to re-sign him. I'm super happy we kept Looch ahead of Monny.

[Mull]

Originally Posted by Johnny Makarov

This is why we need to re-sign him. I'm super happy we kept Looch ahead of Monny.

Looch may be the right choice over Monny but it doesn't mean it doesn't hurt!

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by memphusk

Yes I get what you're saying, but Giroux signed on knowing that Tkachuk was already the captain. If he's already sour why sign to start with?

Do you think it is possible that Giroux signed his contract before learning that Tkachuk's captaincy was contractual? I think that bit of information on its own could significantly impact a player's feelings.

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[Saqe]

If some were disappointed with Tkachuk's and Gaudreau's effort in the BOA, I really hope they aren't expecting something else from the new guys i.e. Huberdeau and Weegar who have no attachment to it.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Saqe

If some were disappointed with Tkachuk's and Gaudreau's effort in the BOA, I really hope they aren't expecting something else from the new guys i.e. Huberdeau and Weegar who have no attachment to it.

Not sure that's valid.

I wouldn't need a course at Devry to figure out that an upcoming game between Toronto and Montreal was important if I was a new Leaf.

Pretty obvious.

It's about type of player and how you perform in big games.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Saqe

If some were disappointed with Tkachuk's and Gaudreau's effort in the BOA, I really hope they aren't expecting something else from the new guys i.e. Huberdeau and Weegar who have no attachment to it.

I think most of the expectations of fans are set on the intensity that Kadri will inject into the BoA. But I do think it is worth mentioning that Huberdeau and Weegar both have ample experience playing in a heated, highly competitive local rivalry. Huberdeau, for one, has 45 pts in 42 GP v. Tampa—by far his single highest split. Gaudreau has only 36 pts in 41 GP v. Edmonton, and Tkachuk only 23 in 28.

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[browna]

1) MT wasnt ready for a captain role. He's said the right things over the years but then his actions haven't really followed. The tantrum after the Muzzin puck flip, the selfish and unnecessary second fight of Klingberg which reduces his abilities the rest of these playoffs.

Ottawa was a shambles in the executive these last years. Anyone who hired McGuire has issues, so Brady slipping a contractual capitancy in there, if true, is smart on his part but idiotic by the team to grant that.

My guess is that request by MT (if true) didn't get past BT, nevermind Sutter.

2)MTs fight vs Klingberg took him out of the effectively he had with JG when it came to the Oilers series. The Oilers top line were cheating with neutral zone responsibility as they always did all year, and in game 1 and parts of other games it meant they gave up quality chances and goals. But in Game 3 it gave them 6 odd man rushes in the second period and they scored on 4 of them. MT and JG tried to match and do the same and occasionally it worked but that was going off the Flames script. As a result they looked lost and out of place all series, and the injury to the hand limiting the the touch and timing passes those two hooked up on all year.

3)MT bent over the Flames with more intent in the contract situation than JG did. By doing his last deal to be structured the way he did, there was always an intent this offseason to pressure the Flames into something (long term big $ signing or trade with the rfa tender the concern), and effectively playing one less year at that salary from the last deal.

I don't question him or JGs desire to beat the Oilers, at all, though. They were around long enough to see and hear and feel the hate.