Brad Treliving needs to go

[blender]

Originally Posted by Locke

We should have a fan lottery where the winner gets to be the GM for a year.

Absolutely one of the best ideas in this thread.
Ideally it would be one of the loudest blowhard know-it-alls from here and we could enjoy watching them fail epically and then we can rip them relentlessly.

[flames_fan_down_under]

Originally Posted by TOfan

Ok, sure. But while you’re at it, factor in the picks Treliving has brought in. Especially over the past 12 months or so.

4th for Frolik
3rd as part of the Lucic deal
3rd for Rittich
Two seconds (effectively) for Bennett

Chasing the playoffs because ownership mandated it? Well, what would you have done?

Is it not obvious? Build from within and not trade away top 3 round picks for players that spend all of 7 games with the Flames like Forbort (apologies he was a 4th round pick) and Gustafson. I have said this literally over and over. None of those trade deadline additions or the adding of Bollig, or Lazar etc, where he squandered critical draft capital made a difference for the long term viability of the Flames or increased the odds that the Flames were going to make the playoffs or not. He just plugged holes that should have been filled by prospects, and then created new holes with fresh assets going out the window.

Being shrewd with draft capital and making the playoffs are not mutually exclusive.

[Hackey]

Wasting assets on depth dman to get bounced in the first round was terrible. Especially when we should have been sellers. Brodie would have brought back a couple decent picks I'm sure. Instead we spent assets and lost Brodie for nothing. Huge fail.

[Cobra]

No Brad is doing a great job.
Team Sweden is awesome with no pressure.
Like last night you will see we have the best non-contact, shiny team in the league.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by TOfan

Ok, sure. But while you’re at it, factor in the picks Treliving has brought in. Especially over the past 12 months or so.

4th for Frolik
3rd as part of the Lucic deal
3rd for Rittich
Two seconds (effectively) for Bennett

Chasing the playoffs because ownership mandated it? Well, what would you have done?

Well if you subscribe to the theory that ownership forced him to short cut a rebuild, he didn't in fact do a very good job. The return on the draft picks going out the door has poor.

And we are seeing the results on the ice. If he was building a team to win now, he was unsuccessful.

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by Hackey

Wasting assets on depth dman to get bounced in the first round was terrible. Especially when we should have been sellers. Brodie would have brought back a couple decent picks I'm sure. Instead we spent assets and lost Brodie for nothing. Huge fail.

Revisionist history.

When Treliving traded picks for Forbort & Gustavson, Giordano and Hamonic were hurt. I would imagine the expectation, from ownership, was to make the playoffs. There was also a strong belief, I bet, that the Flames were interested in resigning Brodie.

Is this one of those scenarios where Treliving did everything wrong and nothing right? How’s your relationship with your parents?

[bubbsy]

Originally Posted by TOfan

Revisionist history.

When Treliving traded picks for Forbort & Gustavson, Giordano and Hamonic were hurt. I would imagine the expectation, from ownership, was to make the playoffs. There was also a strong belief, I bet, that the Flames were interested in resigning Brodie.

Is this one of those scenarios where Treliving did everything wrong and nothing right? How’s your relationship with your parents?

Treliving is terrific man. Like amazing...

What a dumb comment to end with btw.

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

Well if you subscribe to the theory that ownership forced him to short cut a rebuild, he didn't in fact do a very good job. The return on the draft picks going out the door has poor.

And we are seeing the results on the ice. If he was building a team to win now, he was unsuccessful.

Of all the picks he has traded, have any made an impact in the NHL to date?

Had he kept all these picks, is there any indication, what so ever, that the Flames would have definitively been better off today for it? Go ahead and galaxy brain that for us.

Stock pile all the picks you want, there’s only so many roster spots. And unless you want to compile an army of 19 year olds, of which only 23 get to play, what’s the point?

Treliving acquired draft capital his first year, or two, then spent to fill out the roster to complete and it now appears he’s compiling picks again.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by TOfan

Of all the picks he has traded, have any made an impact in the NHL to date?

Had he kept all these picks, is there any indication, what so ever, that the Flames would have definitively been better off today for it? Go ahead and galaxy brain that for us.

Stock pile all the picks you want, there’s only so many roster spots. And unless you want to compile an army of 19 year olds, of which only 23 get to play, what’s the point?

Treliving acquired draft capital his first year, or two, then spent to fill out the roster to complete and it now appears he’s compiling picks again.

I don’t really get this argument. He received poor value in too many of the trades where he sent picks the other way. Really doesn’t matter who the other team chose with their picks.

And are you saying he did a good job of building a club to be competitive in the short term. The results are pretty much there to be seen. Don’t know anyone would need to galaxy brain anything.

A team of 19 year olds? What?

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Hackey

Wasting assets on depth dman to get bounced in the first round was terrible. Especially when we should have been sellers. Brodie would have brought back a couple decent picks I'm sure. Instead we spent assets and lost Brodie for nothing. Huge fail.

Kinda hindsight though...every team that doesn't win the cup should have been sellers in hindsight. Oilers spent a pretty penny to not make the playoffs at all.

Brodie should have been sorted one way or another though...either sign an extension earlier or moved so they could have brought in someone else. What team doesn't lose UFA's though?

[Samonadreau]

Anyone defending Tre has to explain what 'The process' is.

But they cant, because nobody knows what it is. Not even Tre himself.

[dino7c]

I think there is a difference between defending and having a reasonable debate about what were actually bad moves

Spending draft picks on rentals and then losing in the first round is something every GM has done or will do at some point.

The overall results are enough for him to reasonably be fired but to act like he did something crazy trading a late pick for depth D is kinda silly since every playoff team makes those kinda moves. Especially if they have 2 of their top 4 injured.

At least they were sellers at this past deadline while Montreal was spending assets on Stall to help them lose in the first round.

[Flamesfan05]

7 yrs and the team is bad position. Arguably worse than when he found it.

Why is he not fired yet?

[Jacks]

I never understood why he dumped Kulak for nothing and then traded a pick later that season for Fantenberg. If he wanted a depth dman just keep Kulak.

Of all the picks he has traded, have any made an impact in the NHL to date?

Had he kept all these picks, is there any indication, what so ever, that the Flames would have definitively been better off today for it? Go ahead and galaxy brain that for us.

Not going to go through every pick but if they had kept the 2015 1st rounder we would probably have Barzal, Conner or Chabot. Boston taking Senyshyn was a head scratcher for most.

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by Jacks

I never understood why he dumped Kulak for nothing and then traded a pick later that season for Fantenberg. If he wanted a depth dman just keep Kulak.



Not going to go through every pick but if they had kept the 2015 1st rounder we would probably have Barzal, Conner or Chabot. Boston taking Senyshyn was a head scratcher for most.

You could play this game for every draft pick traded, ever. Fact is the overwhelming majority of 3rd round draft picks, like the one used to acquire Gustavson, don’t turn out to be Braydon Point.

Trading mid-round picks is something every GM does. It’s not like Treliving is just recklessly trading picks without reasoning. And, again, he also acquired picks.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by TOfan

Stock pile all the picks you want, there’s only so many roster spots. And unless you want to compile an army of 19 year olds, of which only 23 get to play, what’s the point?

Treliving acquired draft capital his first year, or two, then spent to fill out the roster to complete and it now appears he’s compiling picks again.

Exactly, how can you play an army of 19 year olds? What young player is realistically going to bump out legit NHL studs like Ritchie, Robinson, Nordstrom, Nesterov, Leivo? There are teams that try this army of 19 year olds approach, like Carolina, but it is a fools game.

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

Exactly, how can you play an army of 19 year olds? What young player is realistically going to bump out legit NHL studs like Ritchie, Robinson, Nordstrom, Nesterov, Leivo? There are teams that try this army of 19 year olds approach, like Carolina, but it is a fools game.

Here’s a list of all the players selected with the picks Treliving has surrendered:

Matheson Iacopelli
Zachary Senyshyn
Jacob Forsback Karlson
Jeremy Lauzon
Jens Looke
Adin Hill
Jordan Kyrou
Nicolas Nordgren
Stuart Skinner
Akira Schmid
Alex Formenton
Noah Dobson
Ruslan Ishakov
Samuel Bolduc
Kevin Wall
Tyler Angle
Kim Nouslianen
Juho Markkanen
Wyatt Kaiser

He also has an outstanding 4th to LA for the disastrous Forbort trade.

I’ve highlighted the players that look to be actual NHL player. Of course, we should also take into account some of the players Treliving drafted with picks he acquired through trade, such as Anderson and Dube. Instead of presenting an argument without taking any context into account, which seems to be the popular sentiment around here, the full picture should be understood and acknowledged.

From an organizational perspective, and I can only make my assumptions from how this organization has gone about its business for decades, but making the playoffs is expected, not a luxury while they wait for a fraction of their draft picks to turn out.

Also worth pointing out that of the last four trades Treliving has made, he has acquired picks in all of them.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by Flamesfan05

7 yrs and the team is bad position. Arguably worse than when he found it.

Why is he not fired yet?

Not even close to being worse now than when he took over.

[Poe969]

Originally Posted by TOfan

Here’s a list of all the players selected with the picks Treliving has surrendered:

Matheson Iacopelli
Zachary Senyshyn
Jacob Forsback Karlson
Jeremy Lauzon
Jens Looke
Adin Hill
Jordan Kyrou
Nicolas Nordgren
Stuart Skinner
Akira Schmid
Alex Formenton
Noah Dobson
Ruslan Ishakov
Samuel Bolduc
Kevin Wall
Tyler Angle
Kim Nouslianen
Juho Markkanen
Wyatt Kaiser

He also has an outstanding 4th to LA for the disastrous Forbort trade.

I’ve highlighted the players that look to be actual NHL player. Of course, we should also take into account some of the players Treliving drafted with picks he acquired through trade, such as Anderson and Dube. Instead of presenting an argument without taking any context into account, which seems to be the popular sentiment around here, the full picture should be understood and acknowledged.

From an organizational perspective, and I can only make my assumptions from how this organization has gone about its business for decades, but making the playoffs is expected, not a luxury while they wait for a fraction of their draft picks to turn out.

Also worth pointing out that of the last four trades Treliving has made, he has acquired picks in all of them.

Just because other teams used picks on those players, doesn't mean the Flames would have. In most of those drafts, there were good players picked close to those picks. The Flames scouts have done a decent job and probably would have done a better job.

[tkflames]

Originally Posted by TOfan

Here’s a list of all the players selected with the picks Treliving has surrendered:

Matheson Iacopelli
Zachary Senyshyn
Jacob Forsback Karlson
Jeremy Lauzon
Jens Looke
Adin Hill
Jordan Kyrou
Nicolas Nordgren
Stuart Skinner
Akira Schmid
Alex Formenton
Noah Dobson
Ruslan Ishakov
Samuel Bolduc
Kevin Wall
Tyler Angle
Kim Nouslianen
Juho Markkanen
Wyatt Kaiser

He also has an outstanding 4th to LA for the disastrous Forbort trade.

I’ve highlighted the players that look to be actual NHL player. Of course, we should also take into account some of the players Treliving drafted with picks he acquired through trade, such as Anderson and Dube.

From an organizational perspective, and I can only make my assumptions from how this organization has gone about its business for decades, but making the playoffs is expected, not a luxury while they wait for a fraction of their draft picks to turn out.

I don't think that was a bad trade. Forbort is the perfect playoff defender...should play 5/6...can slot into top 4 when there are injuries. Hr has some meaness to his game. That is exactly the deal you should make to help get a core good playoff experience in a middle of the pack year (I liken this to Niemenen/Nilson but on defense).

Winning a Stanley Cup isn't a case of save all of your chips and then spend them in one year...its a build over time while keeping enough chips to push you over in one year. While it looked good in Peters's first year...I think this teams peak is quite a bit below Stanley cup caliber.

The right move is probably to lock in Mangiapane, Tkachuck, Dube, Hanifin and Rasmus long term...crash hard for top players for 3 years...and then go on a real run in 5 years with those 5 players as your senior citizens and a young core of drafted players in the mold of Makar, Pointe and Boeser. If Wolf works out...then you can then buy a couple of Tofoli's and a brodie in free agency and you have a Stanley cup contender under the salary cap.

Thinking back...the Schneider over Demko pick when Demko was the obvious choice after his team Canada pick has really set back this organization in terms of window...