Flames to announce plans to announce arena plans in the... future...

[badger89]

Originally Posted by JBR

Mayor will see it first. Hinted this is imminent

What does this mean? Have they not been working closely with city hall on this? Will they not require any government help of any kind? Seems like a strange remark.

[heep223]

Interested to see who's going to pay for the land remediation, if this truly is going to kick start west village. That's why there's nothing on the west side of downtown except for car dealers.

[Muta]

Originally Posted by JBR

Ken King on 95.9 this morning talking about the new project, and how major acts skip Calgary in favour of Edmonton. He doesn't think its because of the arena, in part. That's another discussion but he did confirm:

Downtown location
Bigger than an arena project
Mayor will see it first. Hinted this is imminent
Less than a few weeks away from making it pubic

Take that for what it's worth.

[Ozy_Flame]

I love when things are made pubic, it means they're going balls to the wall on getting this done

[heep223]

Originally Posted by JBR

Ken King on 95.9 this morning talking about the new project, and how major acts skip Calgary in favour of Edmonton. He doesn't think its because of the arena, in part. That's another discussion but he did confirm:

Downtown location
Bigger than an arena project
Mayor will see it first. Hinted this is imminent
Less than a few weeks away from making it pubic

Take that for what it's worth.

Yes I remember him saying this as well, almost word for word.

In November.

[Muta]

I don't know why people are upset with delays in timelines for an announcement. This is an absolutely massive, massive project with extremely complicated financial, legal, logistical and property-based issues - so large that what is needed, more than anything, is time to build the engine that's going to be the base for this project. Things just don't 'fall into place' as I take it some of you seem to expect. This isn't some pre-fabricated warehouse in the northeast that takes one summer to build.

People can get mad and annoyed all they want but in the end, they're going to be extremely happy with the result because the Flames are doing this PROPERLY from the start.

[Funkhouser]

Originally Posted by JBR

Ken King on 95.9 this morning talking about the new project, and how major acts skip Calgary in favour of Edmonton. He doesn't think its because of the arena, in part. .

I know for a fact that certain acts have to skip Calgary due to the Saddledome infrastructure being unable to handle the needs of many modern acts. This primarily relates to the weight-bearing ability of the roof.

[JBR]

Originally Posted by badger89

What does this mean? Have they not been working closely with city hall on this? Will they not require any government help of any kind? Seems like a strange remark.

What it means is that yes, they have probably been working closely with city hall but haven't presented a formal proposal yet. The mayor sees the final package first, then everybody else. Pretty simple.

[HOWITZER]

Originally Posted by Frequitude

Agreed. What I'm really curious about though is if it will be packaged with a government funded Crowchild corridor upgrade.

A few years ago the city released a 30 Billion dollar plan for transit development over the next couple decades. It would be cool to include as part of the development the BRT/transitway line in that area to connect U of C with Heritage station via 14th near the new arena. That way, you don't overload Sunalta station with all the people transferring to the North-South line and you give people in the NW a connection to the University station and people in the deep south a quick shortcut to Heritage. It would allow people traveling along the W-NE line to get on and go. Plus, it would expedite the development of the city's long term vision on transit.

For reference, here's a map the city released as part of "Route Ahead":

Spoiler!

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by Muta

I don't know why people are upset with delays in timelines for an announcement. This is an absolutely massive, massive project with extremely complicated financial, legal, logistical and property-based issues - so large that what is needed, more than anything, is time to build the engine that's going to be the base for this project. Things just don't 'fall into place' as I take it some of you seem to expect. This isn't some pre-fabricated warehouse in the northeast that takes one summer to build.

People can get mad and annoyed all they want but in the end, they're going to be extremely happy with the result because the Flames are doing this PROPERLY from the start.

Really? you really don't know why people are upset with 5 years of delays from an initial announcement?

[Ozy_Flame]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

Really? you really don't know why people are upset with 5 years of delays from an initial announcement?

It's a complicated procedure, and there's no point in making announcements that are pre-mature.

Just because the Oilers got theirs underway (and in a shady manner no less) doesn't mean the Flames now have to respond just because. Hopefully the Flames are taking a different route and waiting until things are solid before getting the public involved.

In the mean time, why not get exicted about other projects around town that are equally as cool? The Rocky Ridge Recreation Facility, for one.

I understand completely.

[Alberta_Beef]

Originally Posted by Muta

I don't know why people are upset with delays in timelines for an announcement. This is an absolutely massive, massive project with extremely complicated financial, legal, logistical and property-based issues - so large that what is needed, more than anything, is time to build the engine that's going to be the base for this project. Things just don't 'fall into place' as I take it some of you seem to expect. This isn't some pre-fabricated warehouse in the northeast that takes one summer to build.

People can get mad and annoyed all they want but in the end, they're going to be extremely happy with the result because the Flames are doing this PROPERLY from the start.

The better question is when this is formally announced how much can you share with us.

[Robbob]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

Really? you really don't know why people are upset with 5 years of delays from an initial announcement?

How much has the scope of the project changed from 5 years ago.

[You Need a Thneed]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

Really? you really don't know why people are upset with 5 years of delays from an initial announcement?

From many accounts, the scope of the project changed around the time when the Flames bought the Stampeders -they probably started from scratch there.

Then the Saddledome was flooded, and that whole summer of working on that indtead of the new arena, and any considerations that the flooding may have caused in the project.

Frankly, even 5 years of "delays" sounds reasonable to me.

[Muta]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

Really? you really don't know why people are upset with 5 years of delays from an initial announcement?

Fine, you organize a project of this magnitude. Have fun working out all the deals for all the land and the the re-zoning headaches afterwards. Have fun negotiating all the underground utility infrastructure work. Have fun dealing with land owners who don't want to sell their property. Have fun attacking all the complicated financial issues.

You have absolutely no idea what is going on behind the scenes, and it's painfully evident you've never been involved in large-scale construction projects.

But hey, continue to bitch about the timeframe of a project that isn't being built with YOUR money. Let me know how that works out for you.

[heep223]

Originally Posted by Muta

I don't know why people are upset with delays in timelines for an announcement. This is an absolutely massive, massive project with extremely complicated financial, legal, logistical and property-based issues - so large that what is needed, more than anything, is time to build the engine that's going to be the base for this project. Things just don't 'fall into place' as I take it some of you seem to expect. This isn't some pre-fabricated warehouse in the northeast that takes one summer to build.

People can get mad and annoyed all they want but in the end, they're going to be extremely happy with the result because the Flames are doing this PROPERLY from the start.

Originally Posted by Muta

Fine, you organize a project of this magnitude. Have fun working out all the deals for all the land and the the re-zoning headaches afterwards. Have fun negotiating all the underground utility infrastructure work. Have fun dealing with land owners who don't want to sell their property. Have fun attacking all the complicated financial issues.

You have absolutely no idea what is going on behind the scenes, and it's painfully evident you've never been involved in large-scale construction projects.

But hey, continue to bitch about the timeframe of a project that isn't YOUR money. Let me know how that works out for you.

I understand delays and am happy they're trying to do it right. Just don't give such specific and short-term timelines and have everyone on the edge of their seats only to let them down.

I'm annoyed that he keeps giving specific timelines publicly and then watching them come and go. Particularly because the timelines he gives are short term ie. "watch for something in the next few weeks!" and then months later, he says it again. This exact scenario has been happening for 3-4 years now, it's not exactly a best practice in public engagement.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

It's a complicated procedure, and there's no point in making announcements that are pre-mature.

You realize that as of a few weeks ago, the Flames hadn't even made a proposal to the city, right?

The only reason I can think of for such a long incubation period is the owners have been trying to orchestrate a political climate where they're on the hook for the least amount of money. Because sorry, it doesn't take 5+ years to investigate options and draw up plans. The facilities for entire Olympic Games have been designed and built in that time-frame.

[Senator Clay Davis]

Originally Posted by Muta

But hey, continue to bitch about the timeframe of a project that isn't being built with YOUR money. Let me know how that works out for you.

Funny story: if it were up to the Flames owners, it would be entirely or mostly built with his (and all of our tax) money. And that's part of why this is taking forever, figuring out how to maximize public contribution. Unfortunately for them their timing on this front is horrible to ask for public money.

[Weitz]

Originally Posted by Muta

Fine, you organize a project of this magnitude. Have fun working out all the deals for all the land and the the re-zoning headaches afterwards. Have fun negotiating all the underground utility infrastructure work. Have fun dealing with land owners who don't want to sell their property. Have fun attacking all the complicated financial issues.

You have absolutely no idea what is going on behind the scenes, and it's painfully evident you've never been involved in large-scale construction projects.

But hey, continue to bitch about the timeframe of a project that isn't being built with YOUR money. Let me know how that works out for you.

I'd be more surprised these things are happening with no words leaking out, which would lead me to believe they are not.

[united]

Originally Posted by Muta

Fine, you organize a project of this magnitude. Have fun working out all the deals for all the land and the the re-zoning headaches afterwards. Have fun negotiating all the underground utility infrastructure work. Have fun dealing with land owners who don't want to sell their property. Have fun attacking all the complicated financial issues.

You have absolutely no idea what is going on behind the scenes, and it's painfully evident you've never been involved in large-scale construction projects.

But hey, continue to bitch about the timeframe of a project that isn't being built with YOUR money. Let me know how that works out for you.

That sounds very complicated. Thoughts and prayers to those involved in this...how do they even carry on with life?

Maybe, knowing what is involved in a large-scale construction project, they shouldn't have come out six years ago with an announcement to stakeholders of "start getting excited! Arena announcement is imminent in the next few weeks"! And to make matters worse, doing the same thing numerous times between then and now. Irresponsible. The flood delays are understandable for sure, but the "get excited" nonsense happened years before the flood.