Brad Treliving needs to go

[1qqaaz]

Here are predictions for what happens this summer (regardless of who is GM):

There are two possible solutions for the Flames to become contenders: (1) Complete rebuild and (2) Acquire a superstar center.

The Flames will attempt to do option (2) by acquiring Eichel. They'll fail. We'll hear that the Flames had interest, but not enough to get it done.

This summer, they will trade one of their core players (not Lindholm or Tkachuk), but it won't really move the needle in any meaningful way.

Here are my predictions for what happens next season:

The Flames will play better under Sutter. Markstrom will rebound.
The Flames will make the playoffs, and it'll be a relatively strong season. Some posters here and Flames media will say "See, it's a good thing they didn't rebuild."

The Flames will continue to refuse to play prospects, and they'll trade away picks.

The following year:

The Flames will return to mediocrity. The Sutter effect will fade, Markstrom will have another poor season.
The Flames will again pick around 10th OA and get an okay play with top 6/top 4 potential. They'll again be a cap team that misses the playoffs.

The following 10 years

The Flames will continue to repeat this cycle for perpetuity. Edwards eventually passes the team along to his children.
The Oilers continue to be no good forever.

[zamler]

I have so much to look forward to.

[CalgaryFan1988]

I find it odd that for the greater part of Fleury's career all they had was him and not much else, then for the greater part of Iginla's career it was the same. Now the depth chart indicates their top RWer is...... Brett Ritchie followed by Buddy Robinson.

That alone should get you fired.

[Vinny01]

I have been leaning towards the Flames moving on from Treliving and I think there are 2 main reasons I am thinking that way.

1. Bennett - the highest pick in franchise history and a critical piece of this rebuild now is finally playing like a top 6 forward for a top team in the league this year that is not the Flames. I don’t think it is Treliving’s direct fault Bennett didn’t work out here but he is indirectly responsible due to his poor coaching hires since he let Hartley go

2. Sutter - if I am Brad I am a little bit irked by Sutter talking about coming here to get this team to the cup to now be saying that this was always a 4-6th place team and despite all his hard work this team has no idea how to do what it takes to win when it matters. They are still learning but most of this team has been around for 5-7 years. That is a direct shot at the architect in Brad who I assume told ownership that he assembled a top 3 team in the North this year

I am starting to have a harder time seeing how the organization can stick with Brad after what has happened this season?

[ah123]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

I am starting to have a harder time seeing how the organization can stick with Brad after what has happened this season?

My thinking is that ownership will use the financial lens to look at any and all decisions around Brad and other management staff. Ownership has lost enough money this year, and paying two GMs cannot be very attractive

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by ah123

My thinking is that ownership will use the financial lens to look at any and all decisions around Brad and other management staff. Ownership has lost enough money this year, and paying two GMs cannot be very attractive

You might be right but they are paying for 3 coaches right now. I am always curious why there seems to be belief that our ownership group doesn’t spend when they need to. They buyout players, spend to the cap every single year, hand out long term contracts.

They want to win and if they don’t think Brad can build that team they will move on. Tricky part is I think Sutter is here for the next 2 years so that guy they bring in needs to be able to deal with that which makes the job less attractive.

I feel like they will go after Lombardi and i also think they would consider Conroy who has been working in the front office for a decade

[memphusk]

Are they for sure paying Peters or did they just lump sum and told him to beat it?

[ah123]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

You might be right but they are paying for 3 coaches right now. I am always curious why there seems to be belief that our ownership group doesn’t spend when they need to. They buyout players, spend to the cap every single year, hand out long term contracts.



They want to win and if they don’t think Brad can build that team they will move on. Tricky part is I think Sutter is here for the next 2 years so that guy they bring in needs to be able to deal with that which makes the job less attractive.



I feel like they will go after Lombardi and i also think they would consider Conroy who has been working in the front office for a decade

I think Sutter was brought in to try and get this group into the playoffs (I.e., extra revenue).

Tre has two years left, what value does replacing him bring? Does a new GM guarantee more playoff rounds?

Treliving might be the body they throw on the tarmac if they decide they need to sacrifice someone...but if we are looking from a purely financial perspective, it doesn’t make sense to make changes right now.

Of course, I have no idea what goes on behind the doors there, so it is all speculation on my part

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by ah123

I think Sutter was brought in to try and get this group into the playoffs (I.e., extra revenue).

Tre has two years left, what value does replacing him bring? Does a new GM guarantee more playoff rounds?

Treliving might be the body they throw on the tarmac if they decide they need to sacrifice someone...but if we are looking from a purely financial perspective, it doesn’t make sense to make changes right now.

Of course, I have no idea what goes on behind the doors there, so it is all speculation on my part

Where does this extra revenue come from with no fans in the building?

If they don’t believe Treliving can build a winner a new GM can come in and make the changes they think are necessary to win. If they think a new guy and come in here and get this team back in the playoffs next year when fans will be back then I think now is exactly the time to strike. If they give Treliving the benefit of the doubt for the pandemic season and other abnormalities that have impacted this terrible season and they still think he has the right game plan in place they will keep him.

I am still unsure which way they should go I was probably on the side of keeping him but have started to come around to a lot of the arguments as to why they should move on.

[Azhouse]

I don’t want any more experimentation with guys new to the role. Hard no on Conroy for GM.

[Drunk Uncle]

I'm a full Tre supporter and while I haven't voted I don't think he should be fired and really hope he isn't. I feel there are a few folks that are looking for a scapegoat for a hard season and landed on Tre.

He has drafted well, traded well, signed RFAs well, signed UFAs ok, and hired coaches poorly (something that has been rectified with the Sutter hiring). Retrospective to his peers, he is an excellent GM.

The issue with this team is the top end talent on this team is not the level of elite talent you get with multiple 3 OA or better picks.

Firing Tre doesn't fix that and it won't make any different GM any better than Tre. If we really want to be a perennial contender, the Flames need multiple top 3 OA or better picks or to luck out on a couple more Gaudreau type picks. That takes a commitment from Ownership that I don't see coming.

If they do commit to a rebuild give me the guy whose strengths are drafting, trading and RFA contracts.​

[WCW Nitro]

Originally Posted by Drunk Uncle

I'm a full Tre supporter and while I haven't voted I don't think he should be fired and really hope he isn't. I feel there are a few folks that are looking for a scapegoat for a hard season and landed on Tre.

He has drafted well, traded well, signed RFAs well, signed UFAs ok, and hired coaches poorly (something that has been rectified with the Sutter hiring). Retrospective to his peers, he is an excellent GM.

The issue with this team is the top end talent on this team is not the level of elite talent you get with multiple 3 OA or better picks.

Firing Tre doesn't fix that and it won't make any different GM any better than Tre. If we really want to be a perennial contender, the Flames need multiple top 3 OA or better picks or to luck out on a couple more Gaudreau type picks. That takes a commitment from Ownership that I don't see coming.

If they do commit to a rebuild give me the guy whose strengths are drafting, trading and RFA contracts.​

This. Look at the winners of each division this year, what do they have in common? All have at least one player on the roster who was at least a top2 pick

[flames_fan_down_under]

Originally Posted by Drunk Uncle

I'm a full Tre supporter and while I haven't voted I don't think he should be fired and really hope he isn't. I feel there are a few folks that are looking for a scapegoat for a hard season and landed on Tre.

He has drafted well, traded well, signed RFAs well, signed UFAs ok, and hired coaches poorly (something that has been rectified with the Sutter hiring). Retrospective to his peers, he is an excellent GM.

The issue with this team is the top end talent on this team is not the level of elite talent you get with multiple 3 OA or better picks.

Firing Tre doesn't fix that and it won't make any different GM any better than Tre. If we really want to be a perennial contender, the Flames need multiple top 3 OA or better picks or to luck out on a couple more Gaudreau type picks. That takes a commitment from Ownership that I don't see coming.

If they do commit to a rebuild give me the guy whose strengths are drafting, trading and RFA contracts.​

Even if one of those major strengths is trading away draft picks? Hard to draft a top 3 pick with the GM is keen to ship out significant first round draft capital.

[DazzlinDino]

Originally Posted by Azhouse

I don’t want any more experimentation with guys new to the role. Hard no on Conroy for GM.

Inexperienced people tend to do inexperienced things, and in the NHL there is a lot of competition so you don't want someone who doesn't know exactly what they are building, otherwise they end up needing several kicks at the can. We saw this with the GM and we saw this with the coaches.

Had we hired a proven experienced head GM, right now we would not be going through a lot of these mistakes on so many levels. Several times we picked up players who we turned around and let go because they were not a good fit (waste of time, waste of a roster spot), We also brought in players that came at a price but didn't get the job done and impeded our ability to sign exceptional players. We also used up spots that could have been used to sign or develop a young player.

This GM and his coaches did not know what they had in Sam Bennett so inexperience and stubbornness prevailed. When you look at how Florida is using Sam and getting his confidence up, getting him to using his skills, you start to wonder what Ward was doing benching Bennett. This after the Flames promised him more ice time but instead played hardball with Bennett. Was it inexperience that failed Sam Bennett?

Experienced people with proven results that is what the Flames organization needs. The Flames are falling behind other teams and in this shortened season we could have tanked! The Flames don't know, are bullheaded, or don't have a very good plan.

[RedHawk12]

Originally Posted by flames_fan_down_under

Even if one of those major strengths is trading away draft picks? Hard to draft a top 3 pick with the GM is keen to ship out significant first round draft capital.

Huh?? We've never had a top 3 pick because this team refuses to tank. That's likely ownership mandated. I agree with the poster you quoted. Tre is a scapegoat for now but whoever we bring in is not going to do things any differently.

If Tre is fired, it will be because he failed to make the playoffs. The next GM that gets brought on is going to be asked to "retool" on the fly and get us back in the playoffs asap. That likely means more picks out the door for quick fixes.

If this team is going to go full rebuild and get a shot at Bedard/Michkov, there needs to be an organizational shift in philosophy that starts with ownership. And if ownership is willing to make that shift, I actually don't mind having Tre guide us through it, since his strengths are supposedly drafting and RFA contracts.

[Locke]

We should have a fan lottery where the winner gets to be the GM for a year.

[The Original FFIV]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

You might be right but they are paying for 3 coaches right now. I am always curious why there seems to be belief that our ownership group doesn’t spend when they need to. They buyout players, spend to the cap every single year, hand out long term contracts.

They want to win and if they don’t think Brad can build that team they will move on. Tricky part is I think Sutter is here for the next 2 years so that guy they bring in needs to be able to deal with that which makes the job less attractive.

I feel like they will go after Lombardi and i also think they would consider Conroy who has been working in the front office for a decade

Not paying a poho frees up some coin to bring in a new GM. Didn’t work out here for Brad. Had high hopes but it isn’t working. Time to turn the page.

[flames_fan_down_under]

Originally Posted by RedHawk12

Huh?? We've never had a top 3 pick because this team refuses to tank. That's likely ownership mandated. I agree with the poster you quoted. Tre is a scapegoat for now but whoever we bring in is not going to do things any differently.

If Tre is fired, it will be because he failed to make the playoffs. The next GM that gets brought on is going to be asked to "retool" on the fly and get us back in the playoffs asap. That likely means more picks out the door for quick fixes.

If this team is going to go full rebuild and get a shot at Bedard/Michkov, there needs to be an organizational shift in philosophy that starts with ownership. And if ownership is willing to make that shift, I actually don't mind having Tre guide us through it, since his strengths are supposedly drafting and RFA contracts.

I guess I just feel that BT could have built an even better Flames team if he hadn't traded away tons of draft capital for Hamonic, Smith, Lazar, Bollig, Elliot, Fantenberg, Gustafson, or sent Kulak away for a couple plugs, unless that was ownerships fault too? Chasing the playoffs because ownership "mandated" it isn't an excuse for awful asset management.

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by flames_fan_down_under

I guess I just feel that BT could have built an even better Flames team if he hadn't traded away tons of draft capital for Hamonic, Smith, Lazar, Bollig, Elliot, Fantenberg, Gustafson, or sent Kulak away for a couple plugs, unless that was ownerships fault too? Chasing the playoffs because ownership "mandated" it isn't an excuse for awful asset management.

Ok, sure. But while you’re at it, factor in the picks Treliving has brought in. Especially over the past 12 months or so.

4th for Frolik
3rd as part of the Lucic deal
3rd for Rittich
Two seconds (effectively) for Bennett

Chasing the playoffs because ownership mandated it? Well, what would you have done?

[bubbsy]

Brad treliving has a track record as an agm for a highly competitive team in Arizona before coming in to be the gm of the flames. Over his 7 year tenure, he has taken a team at the early stages of a a rebuild and has it firmly placed at the peak of mediocrity in the league.

Heck, forget firing him, surprised we aren't discussing the flames extending him....