03-07-2022, 12:52 PM
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#3261
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Franchise Player
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The fact is, we're not the ones getting shot at, bombed and seeing our friends, relatives and countrymen die every day. If Ukraine can get out of this with some reasonable compromises that they're willing to live with, it'll be hard to accuse them of "appeasement".
__________________
"The great promise of the Internet was that more information would automatically yield better decisions. The great disappointment is that more information actually yields more possibilities to confirm what you already believed anyway." - Brian Eno
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03-07-2022, 01:12 PM
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#3262
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Franchise Player
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Helsinki, Finland
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague
The fact is, we're not the ones getting shot at, bombed and seeing our friends, relatives and countrymen die every day. If Ukraine can get out of this with some reasonable compromises that they're willing to live with, it'll be hard to accuse them of "appeasement".
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On the other hand, we're not the ones getting shot at, bombed and seeing our friends relatives and countrymen die every day.
It's a lot easier for us to say that "you know it'd be smarter to just give in to the Russians".
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03-07-2022, 01:12 PM
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#3263
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: SW Ontario
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The big shoe has dropped - Adidas closing stores and online sales in Russia.
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03-07-2022, 01:15 PM
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#3264
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Franchise Player
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Helsinki, Finland
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03-07-2022, 01:17 PM
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#3265
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Vancouver
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Itse
On the other hand, we're not the ones getting shot at, bombed and seeing our friends relatives and countrymen die every day.
It's a lot easier for us to say that "you know it'd be smarter to just give in to the Russians".
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Totally. I am not saying that Ukraine shouldn't accept the demands, but with all the blood they already paid, I sure hope it is their decision and not pressures from the West because they don't want to deal with it any more. I was saying before the invasion that NATO and Russia should have forced neutrality on Ukraine in exchange for mutually assured security.
The demands pretty much just put everything back as it was (with some territory lost). It would be really sad for all the people who lost loved ones just to see no positive changes to their security or autonomy. Ukrainians will fight until the end if they have the support, so the only way those demands are agreed to, is if the West threatens to appease Russia themselves. It won't be the Ukrainians deciding it unless support gets scaled back, based on what we have seen so far.
__________________
"A pessimist thinks things can't get any worse. An optimist knows they can."
Last edited by FlamesAddiction; 03-07-2022 at 01:42 PM.
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03-07-2022, 01:17 PM
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#3266
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Sylvan Lake
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Itse
On the other hand, we're not the ones getting shot at, bombed and seeing our friends relatives and countrymen die every day.
It's a lot easier for us to say that "you know it'd be smarter to just give in to the Russians".
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Agreed, if they want to stand and full body bags they should.
__________________
Captain James P. DeCOSTE, CD, 18 Sep 1993
Corporal Jean-Marc H. BECHARD, 6 Aug 1993
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03-07-2022, 01:17 PM
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#3267
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Pickle Jar Lake
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Ah, that explains the bombing of schools, churches and hospitals. Thanks, Russia.
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03-07-2022, 01:19 PM
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#3268
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Itse
On the other hand, we're not the ones getting shot at, bombed and seeing our friends relatives and countrymen die every day.
It's a lot easier for us to say that "you know it'd be smarter to just give in to the Russians".
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I'm not saying that. If they want to fight right up until the last Ukrainian falls, that's their prerogative. But I also have seen and heard a lot of people whose version of cheering on Ukraine from afar is basically, "give them hell! Drive them back over the borders! No quarter, no surrender! Don't give in to the demands of your invaders, don't give them an inch!" And I'm going, "easy for you to say from the sidelines."
__________________
"The great promise of the Internet was that more information would automatically yield better decisions. The great disappointment is that more information actually yields more possibilities to confirm what you already believed anyway." - Brian Eno
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03-07-2022, 01:23 PM
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#3269
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Franchise Player
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Quick update on my wife's situation:
Last edited by Huntingwhale; 03-07-2022 at 01:27 PM.
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03-07-2022, 01:26 PM
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#3270
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First Line Centre
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Itse
On the other hand, we're not the ones getting shot at, bombed and seeing our friends relatives and countrymen die every day.
It's a lot easier for us to say that "you know it'd be smarter to just give in to the Russians".
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Yeah, at this point I can't see how anyone on the Ukrainian side would ever, EVER, agree to the Russian demands. Agreeing to never join the EU and/or NATO is nothing but a prolonged death sentence for their country. They already had multiple agreements with Russia that recognized Ukraine's sovereignty and pre-existing territory, and those promises were obviously broken with the annexation of Crimea. They had agreements that Russia would never use weapons against Ukraine except in self-defence: obviously that promise was broken in 2014 and has been continually broken ever since.
An agreement with Russia isn't worth the paper it's printed on. If the Ukrainians agree to never joining the EU/NATO, they're just agreeing to an eventual Russian takeover. It's a de facto surrender and Russian accession of a vassal state.
If I'm Zelenskyy or any other Ukrainian government official these demands are complete non-starters.
Last edited by timun; 03-07-2022 at 01:29 PM.
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03-07-2022, 01:30 PM
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#3271
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Itse
On the other hand, we're not the ones getting shot at, bombed and seeing our friends relatives and countrymen die every day.
It's a lot easier for us to say that "you know it'd be smarter to just give in to the Russians".
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This is so true. My in-laws and my passed husband were from Hungary and they came to Canada in 1949. They were able to come to Canada only because my father-in-law had 2 brothers who immigrated to Canada 20 years earlier, when Canada was encouraging immigrants with farming background to move here.
My in-laws, particularly my father-in-law, rarely talked about the war. Hitler marched through their country as well and occupied all of their towns. The men, including my father-in-law, were forced to fight for the Germans. He was in a unit that marched 4500 km to Moscow and back in the dead of winter. He said they all would have starved if not for some peasants giving them bread. 90% of his unit was lost in battle.
The village they were from was occupied by the Germans for about 2 months, until all supplies were exhausted, and then they went to another village. My mother-in-law and her sister were hidden in a vegetable pit for that period of time or else they would have been raped.
My father-in-law's words were almost identical to yours. He said that until your home has been blown to smithereens, until you have been occupied, until you have lost your children or other members of your family, until your women have been raped, and until you have been forced to fight someone else's war, you have no concept of what war is really like.
I recently reminded my children to be careful of causes they support and to remember the sacrifices their grandparents made to come to Canada to give them a better life, a life free from oppression.
Last edited by redforever; 03-20-2022 at 09:25 AM.
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03-07-2022, 02:24 PM
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#3273
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Vancouver
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I saw on the news that some of the Nigerian students that were repatriated in Nigeria, have been there recruiting people to go back to Ukraine with them to fight (many of them soldiers with experience). There were a couple of hundred that went to the Ukrainian embassy and I guess they are trying to raise the money to get there. I thought that was interesting.
__________________
"A pessimist thinks things can't get any worse. An optimist knows they can."
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03-07-2022, 02:28 PM
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#3274
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Lifetime Suspension
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame
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Absolutely loving this infusion of 'independent' fighters.
Hope in humanity rising...
Give them hell boys.
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03-07-2022, 02:34 PM
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#3275
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 Posted the 6 millionth post! |
The real United Nations.
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03-07-2022, 02:50 PM
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#3276
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: SW Ontario
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction
I saw on the news that some of the Nigerian students that were repatriated in Nigeria, have been there recruiting people to go back to Ukraine with them to fight (many of them soldiers with experience). There were a couple of hundred that went to the Ukrainian embassy and I guess they are trying to raise the money to get there. I thought that was interesting.
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Russia is trying to recruit Syrians who have urban fighting experience I saw.
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03-07-2022, 03:05 PM
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#3277
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Sylvan Lake
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction
I saw on the news that some of the Nigerian students that were repatriated in Nigeria, have been there recruiting people to go back to Ukraine with them to fight (many of them soldiers with experience). There were a couple of hundred that went to the Ukrainian embassy and I guess they are trying to raise the money to get there. I thought that was interesting.
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They could be useful, IIRC they are Pommie trained.
__________________
Captain James P. DeCOSTE, CD, 18 Sep 1993
Corporal Jean-Marc H. BECHARD, 6 Aug 1993
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03-07-2022, 03:37 PM
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#3278
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Calgary
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03-07-2022, 03:51 PM
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#3280
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: A small painted room
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Jagr donating proceeds from a game in the Czech Republic to Ukraine :
https://twitter.com/68Jagr/status/15...CJZvdo9ng&s=19
(I still can't Twitter, sorry)
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